JBLU Management Answers Back

[Deli Guy]

I've accepted the fact that ALPA will probably win the election this time around. I'll be relieved. Because if they were defeated, the same group would either protest the results or then try TWU or some other trucking union. I'll be grateful to pay out the $5000/year dues for the 2-3 years it's going to take to get our first contract-- while maintaining status quo on pay and benefits. That's a pretty expensive ALPA decal...

The battle cry is "We want industry standard!" Please check out the pay rates of other E190 operators. Our JBLU E190 FOs make more money than Republic's E190 Captains. http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/major-national-lcc.html
Jetblue leads the industry in pay for the E190s.

The ALPA supporters pick and choose the great parts of every contract out there as their promise for greener pastures. Really? Our first contract will most likely be concessionary no matter what these ALPA supporters will tell you, that is just a fact of first contracts. What if we do end up with industry standard-- like no more pay protection for lost legs or trips due to IROP (APA-American). Or how about 50% pay for deadheads (ALPA-UAL). Be careful what you ask for, because these are examples of industry standards.

I love Democrats!!!

Industry standard came from a peer set. The 190 pay at other companies does not matter. The peer set is what was looked at. The company recognized that the Republic pay rates were not in the peer set. Stop shading the truth.

 

[Dan Roman]

All our contracts are membership ratified. ALPA National only signs off on what we want, not the other way around. As is well stated here, what you get is up to the individual airline, ALPA National is just a very good resource and partner, they do not dictate anything.

 

[Pilotbob3]

Congratulations ALPA drive organizers. Your JB management has now suspended our 5 amendments to our PEA contracts. These improvements were within weeks of being achieved and would have been additional items on the negotiating table for our first contract if we went the ALPA route... Instead, ALPA filed at the worst possible time to the NMB.

This action has proved two things. One, that ALPA, before we are even members of the organization, has already screwed up for us. And two, that for those who think this JB management team will be amicable negotiators across the table from us, you're living in a dream world!!!

I find it hard that someone thinks the way you do. It's scary. ALPA filed at the BEST possible time! The company doesn't want to NEGOTIATE with ALPA with a clean piece of paper. They wanted a subpar set of "mockuments" with pilot's signatures on it to create a negative foundation to keep us down.

I know I am wasting time trying to convince you to change your mind. You sound like a little kid stomping your feet. Why wouldn't JB mangement be amicaple negotiators? Why should they change from what you insinuate they are now? Revenge perhaps? It wouldn't make sense.

 

[Blue Dude]

Really? These documents were within weeks of a pilot vote. ALPA couldn't wait a few weeks after over a year of hard work by both sides? Give me a break-- try to spin it any way you want... But it was the poorest of timing!!!

I wrote this to you earlier. Did you even read it before hitting reply?

You seem to assume that the 5 documents would have had us negotiating from a position of strength. Instead, we would have spent a fair amount of negotiating capital just closing all the loopholes, much less achieving scope or M&A language worthy of the name. At least this way the company can't argue that we agreed to the weakest "protections" this side of Mesa and have established a precedent. I'd say the timing was pretty good.

It doesn't matter how close the documents were to being finished if they would have hurt us in negotiations. What part of that is unclear? You didn't even address this.

 

[banger]

played for a fool

Union or not I would not vote yes on the 5 mockuments. They are just a joke to occupy us and keep the illusion that management cares. BlueBayou you are being played for a fool

 

[OurMoney1]

A word of advice to the JBLU guys. Well done! Dont waste your time on individuals like BlueBayou. The sky is not falling and rhetoric is a waste of time at this point. You guys have this election in your sights now. Start planning phase II and pay no mind to the lounge lizards that can see only as far as their driveway mailbox.

 

[BLUE BAYOU]

When United-Continental and Delta-Northwest pilots leave and form their own in-house unions (and they will, it only makes sense with the $$$$millions they keep to themselves), what will ALPA look like then? What will our dues look like to keep up with their fixed costs? Who will be left? ALPA had their own employees strike against them... Great organization!!!

Our model at JBLU has worked for 12 years. It is unique. It is not perfect. But not one pilot here has lost his job to a furlough. Not one pilot has been asked to give back any pay. How many unionized carriers can state that fact? Heck Airtran, Spirit, Alaska, American, United, Continental, Delta, Northwest, Mesa, and a host of others HAVE furloughed... I look at facts... And I'll be the first to laugh at the furloughs we have under ALPA... Furlough clause or not (DALPA)... You can take that to the bank-- FACTS not rumors or speculations...

 

[$$$4nothin]

A couple questions from a guy in the B6 pool. I have been doing as much reading on this ALPA topic as i can. Seeing how well teamsters has done at my current airline I have to admit I am not much of a pro union kind of guy at the moment. I do want what will be best for my career and family just like the rest of you so I do have a couple of questions.
1. Will ALPA be able to get that 10% of the flying the PVC gave away back.
2. I have heard the rumors of a B6 merger. Does this look like it is really a possibility, or is everyone just speculateing and guessing based on the current situation most airlines are in.
3. If ALPA does get voted in how long will it be until we are paying dues
4. When is the ammendable date of the contract
5. For all of you ALPA "major" guys in the know. How long does it take for ALPA to actually get a contract to the pilots to vote on.

 

[B6Busdriver]

A couple questions from a guy in the B6 pool. I have been doing as much reading on this ALPA topic as i can. Seeing how well teamsters has done at my current airline I have to admit I am not much of a pro union kind of guy at the moment. I do want what will be best for my career and family just like the rest of you so I do have a couple of questions.
1. Will ALPA be able to get that 10% of the flying the PVC gave away back.
2. I have heard the rumors of a B6 merger. Does this look like it is really a possibility, or is everyone just speculateing and guessing based on the current situation most airlines are in.
3. If ALPA does get voted in how long will it be until we are paying dues
4. When is the ammendable date of the contract
5. For all of you ALPA "major" guys in the know. How long does it take for ALPA to actually get a contract to the pilots to vote on.

1 The documents are dead. The company can do what they want.
2 A merger will definitely happen.....or not.
3 I think no dues until MEC structure complete.....correct me someone
4 They can amend anything they want when they want it.
5 Estimated 3 years

 

[$$$4nothin]

Our model at JBLU has worked for 12 years. It is unique. It is not perfect. But not one pilot here has lost his job to a furlough. Not one pilot has been asked to give back any pay. How many unionized carriers can state that fact? Heck Airtran, Spirit, Alaska, American, United, Continental, Delta, Northwest, Mesa, and a host of others HAVE furloughed... I look at facts... And I'll be the first to laugh at the furloughs we have under ALPA... Furlough clause or not (DALPA)... You can take that to the bank-- FACTS not rumors or speculations...

You do have some good points. I am very anti union (anti Teamsters to be exact) at the moment, but with the Legacy carriers retireing a cumulative 15000+ guys over the course of the next 15-20 years I would say furloughs aren't in the near future for many of us. Also, would you really laugh at your fellow B6 pilots that were furloughed, for any reason. That sucks, as I am soon to be at the bottom of your list I would probably be one of those guys.