How many got hired and quit at Pinnacolaba in the past week?

[bri5150]

Because that's what the arbitrator will look at. Not the management, not the union leader, maintenance, training centers, chief pilots, contracts, or attitude. It boils down to career expectation as the main measuring stick for recent SLIs. I expect this one to be no different. And if you really are all about "Mesaba" I fully expect you to step from the RJ to the props to stick with "Mesaba" and not come to the Pinnacle side. But somehow, I think most will just swallow it and come over. Guys like Seven who will openly badmouth Pinnacle as being a crappy, unsafe carrier, and how Mesaba is ten folds ahead and safer. Well, will you keep to your word and promptly step over to the props to stay Mesaba, or be hypocritical and come to Pinnacle with the jets. Decisions, decisions!

Decision is made. Your airline are belong to us!! Oh yeah, I said it. Our training center, our union leaders, and our safety culture will follow us when we bid to a jet (oh yeah, Mesaba has those too). That is my point. There are more to airlines than just airplanes. And there is more to the career expectation thing than just airplanes too. As I have said previously, I expected to fly a 900 out of MSP, DTW, or MEM with a good contract and then flow to Delta when my number was up. Seven won't be flying for classic Pinnacle. He will be flying for a company that has Mesaba stamped all over it, with a CEO we may actually like (fingers crossed)

 

[Flyer1015]

Decision is made. Your airline are belong to us!! Oh yeah, I said it. Our training center, our union leaders, and our safety culture will follow us when we bid to a jet (oh yeah, Mesaba has those too). That is my point. There are more to airlines than just airplanes. And there is more to the career expectation thing than just airplanes too. As I have said previously, I expected to fly a 900 out of MSP, DTW, or MEM with a good contract and then flow to Delta when my number was up. Seven won't be flying for classic Pinnacle. He will be flying for a company that has Mesaba stamped all over it, with a CEO we may actually like (fingers crossed)

Your airline are belong to us? Your training center in MSP can stay, as will MEM. If you think the entire Pinnacle RJs can train every single 142+60 RJs at Pinnacle solely in MSP, you're living in a dream land. Pinnacle's facilities will stay too. Your union leaders? Don't hold your breath. They have to be voted in. Lets see how this ISL goes first. Your safety culture? Give it a rest. 9E's safety culture in 2011 is just as good as yours. Your career expectation was, and has to be, taken on a snapshot. I could argue that your career expectation could not have been as great as those things mentioned considering the Saabs had a lease that was expiring, with an early-out clause. And, it happened. Instantly, that changes the overall picture. Also, as Eagle guys will tell you, don't expect a "flowup" to ever get you to mainline. And remember, a flowthrough is not for your benefit as a regional pilot, it is a benefit for mainline. Compass's flowthrough has ended for any pilot hired there after Summer 2010. The ones before will flow. But even after the flows are done, Delta continues to have a flow back option, to all but 10% of the list. Yeah, again, mainline's advantage, not Compass.

 

[GEORGE DUBYA]

This whole thing is stupid! As long as I stay a CA I could care less. Bloch can take until next Christmas who cares. Let's get some interesting posts please.

 

[bri5150]

Your airline are belong to us? Your training center in MSP can stay, as will MEM. If you think the entire Pinnacle RJs can train every single 142+60 RJs at Pinnacle solely in MSP, you're living in a dream land. Pinnacle's facilities will stay too. Your union leaders? Don't hold your breath. They have to be voted in. Lets see how this ISL goes first. Your safety culture? Give it a rest. 9E's safety culture in 2011 is just as good as yours. Your career expectation was, and has to be, taken on a snapshot. I could argue that your career expectation could not have been as great as those things mentioned considering the Saabs had a lease that was expiring, with an early-out clause. And, it happened. Instantly, that changes the overall picture. Also, as Eagle guys will tell you, don't expect a "flowup" to ever get you to mainline. And remember, a flowthrough is not for your benefit as a regional pilot, it is a benefit for mainline. Compass's flowthrough has ended for any pilot hired there after Summer 2010. The ones before will flow. But even after the flows are done, Delta continues to have a flow back option, to all but 10% of the list. Yeah, again, mainline's advantage, not Compass.

Congrats on the one year of good safety. Let's string a few of those together. As you know, our flow was set up completely different from Compass's. Delta would have to hire for a combined 5 years for me to flow. That is well within my age bracket to go there unless something drastic were to happen (which is possible). Can you honestly tell me you wouldn't have liked to been on our flow list? I couldn't imagine your union leaders being voted in with the crap that has been pulled there since your contract negotiations started, and the crap that has been going on this past week with seniority lists.

 

[coonass]

Yea lets not get into a pissing match about one year of half way decent safty record for 2011 its going to be a losing battle. Flyer, when you and 9E can go 60+ years without a pilot acutally crashing or totaling an aircraft then you can boast about your saftey but until then zippit. Everyone on all three sides need to chill out, all this infighting is going to do, is make some people pissed off. There is nothing that anyone can due about the SLI. My airline is better then your airline needs to stop once in for all. Guy's we are all in this turd sandwich together now, so suck it up act professonal we as a pilot group have bigger fish to fry then fight each other. Examples XJ's getting saabs parked from the delta system. 9E has CRJ 200 that delta doesn't want anymore, granted 9E has a contract through 2017. Now we can ask Mesa how well Delta honors contracts. This is extremely bias but I am a XJ' er that doesnt want to go to 9E because I love the culture at XJ, but I really can't wait to start flying with 9E crews to start integrating our two company cultures. I really hope I dont end up a lifer at 9E, but while I am here I going to try my hardest to make this new company the best fricking regional to work at while I am here. Guys its time to move 9E XJ/9L to the number 1 regional spot on all performance numbers tracked buy Delta, USA and United. If we do that, then we deserve more aircraft so people can move up and move on. So with my last thought, save the fight for skywest, mesa, asa, psa, pedmont, Express, Compass because if we dont we will lose aircraft.

And for all the jackwaggons on here about spelling and run on sentences fragment. go ahead and pick this thing apart and make fun of me I truly dont care. I just hope ya'll can understand what i am trying to get across.

 

[DoinTime]

Are airlines made up completely of airplanes? Or are they made of management, union leaders, maintanence, training centers, chief pilots, contracts, and overall pilot attitude? Every single argument you make comes down to "you are losing the Saabs and that's all that matters". What's up with that?

Management - What former Mesaba flight ops managers are going to be at PCL other than this DV guy?

Union leaders - Its unlikely that Mesaba will retain any reps in the combined MEC except for the MSP Council. 2 out of 14 of the voting reps is not exactly a strong influence.

Training centers - Who cares what building training is being done in (both training centers will remain in full swing by the way)? Answer this.....why was PCLs training program and procedures chosen for the CRJ fleet if Mesaba's was superior?

Chief Pilots - All of the Domicile Chief Pilots for the new PCL will be from the old PCL.

Contracts - The JCBA barely even resembles the old Mesaba contract. Why do you guys keep claiming that we are all working under your old contract?

 

[DoinTime]

There was certainly more to the list discrepincies than adjusting your DOH.

Enlighten us. What other unresolved discrepancies still exist?

 

[COOPERVANE]

It's "I couldn't care less" NOT "I could care less"


So you still care a little?

 

[CptMurf]

Enlighten us. What other unresolved discrepancies still exist?

I know that the Monday evening list saw 5 more DOHs move, had a terminated person listed, and a current employee completely vanish. I'm sure those got fixed, but I'm interested to hear the accuracy of the new list.

 

[jynxyjericho]

Contracts - The JCBA barely even resembles the old Mesaba contract. Why do you guys keep claiming that we are all working under your old contract?

What are you smoking? Can I have some?

 

[bri5150]

Management - What former Mesaba flight ops managers are going to be at PCL other than this DV guy?

Again, there is more to an airline than airplanes and flight ops.

Union leaders - Its unlikely that Mesaba will retain any reps in the combined MEC except for the MSP Council. 2 out of 14 of the voting reps is not exactly a strong influence.

God help us if this is the case. I don't see how any of the Pinnacle MEC can be voted in after the debacles that were proven in the past year, and after what happened in this past week.

Training centers - Who cares what building training is being done in (both training centers will remain in full swing by the way)? Answer this.....why was PCLs training program and procedures chosen for the CRJ fleet if Mesaba's was superior?

I am talking about the PEOPLE, not the building. Who gives a ********************e about the damn building. I bet PCLs training program was picked because you have more of the aircraft. Kind of like how Colgan's Cert was picked, not because it was better. It's the people of the training department that I credit with our safety record. Flight Safety doesn't count as a training program.

Chief Pilots - All of the Domicile Chief Pilots for the new PCL will be from the old PCL.

I only heard of DV moving, so I honestly concede this point for now.

Contracts - The JCBA barely even resembles the old Mesaba contract. Why do you guys keep claiming that we are all working under your old contract?

I really don't know what to say here. Unless your old contract and our old contract were the same word for word, this new one is ours almost word for word except for very few provisions. WORD for WORD. I honestly don't know how your old one read, but I am pretty sure it wasn't that similar to ours. How can you even dispute this? I was sitting in the roadshow, and I can't count how many times they said "and this came from the Mesaba contract". I bet they said "this came from the Pinnacle contract" about five times (if that).

p.s. Wow, super fail formatting here

 

[gojo]

Ha! You guys stay classy! He's referring to the closing date of 9E's latest vacancy. So someone got a whiff that Pinnacle has a vacancy for 15 CA RJ upgrades. (GASP! You know, something XJ hasn't seen in years). And then certain XJ guys decided that it's the 9E merger committee's goal to delay the award until June 10th because by then, the vacancy closes. Nothing could be further from the truth. In fact, the whole delay is because of XJs dispute in the first place. The whole DOH on sim date versus class date.

And before anyone at XJ or 9L gets super excited, I'd hold onto it for a while. Methinks that everyone will not be allowed to cross-jump the moment the ISL comes out. There is just far too much to integrate and instant movement would be impossible due to training constraints. I believe 9E already mentioned having operational fences to keep movement in-house until ready. My educated guess would be 6 months, probably January 1 2012 before we can jump across to others.

Guys, arguing with clown and doing time is pointless. They have shown complete disregard to fairness in this integration and only talk about how they can justify screwing 9L and XJ for their personal advancement.

 

[CptMurf]

I really don't know what to say here. Unless your old contract and our old contract were the same word for word, this new one is ours almost word for word except for very few provisions. WORD for WORD. I honestly don't know how your old one read, but I am pretty sure it wasn't that similar to ours. How can you even dispute this? I was sitting in the roadshow, and I can't count how many times they said "and this came from the Mesaba contract". I bet they said "this came from the Pinnacle contract" about five times (if that).

bri you forget, they would have gotten this contract or better on their own. It was just a matter of time.

On a side note... I was going to go picketing this afternoon for an SLI judgement. Would you like to join me?

 

[bri5150]

bri you forget, they would have gotten this contract or better on their own. It was just a matter of time.

On a side note... I was going to go picketing this afternoon for an SLI judgement. Would you like to join me?

Yeah, outside Arb. Bloch's house, right? I'll put the week delay on 9E, but other than that, Bloch needs to get his stuff together.

 

[CptMurf]

Flyer, when you and 9E can go 60+ years without a pilot acutally crashing or totaling an aircraft then you can boast about your saftey but until then zippit.

I'm as proud of XJs safety record as you. But we have had a Dash in a snow bank, an AVRO fall into a construction area, a Saab blow all the mains on landing, and we took 5 jetways in the prop on the first day of operating the new DTW terminal. I think what you mean to say was 60+ years without a fatality. We've dented some over the years too. We just didn't switch seats, accept a tailwind with a 2 hour old BA of poor, or taxi to the gate afterward.

 

[RJLoser]

Thanks murph. Not happy about accidents but it's nice to see humility. We all will gain and lose here. Time to start moving forward.

 

[Flyer1015]

Guys, arguing with clown and doing time is pointless. They have shown complete disregard to fairness in this integration and only talk about how they can justify screwing 9L and XJ for their personal advancement.

Excuse you, my current disdain is with the XJ merger comittee trying to screw me (and every other 9E guy) out of 2 months of seniority by forcing us to use sim date, while ensuring they (XJ) themselves and 9L are using their own class dates. You want me to sing kum ba yah?

Let me fix it for you:

They (XJ + 9L) have shown complete disregard to fairness in this integration and only talk about how they can justify screwing 9E for their personal advancement

 

[CptMurf]

Excuse you, my current disdain is with the XJ merger comittee trying to screw me (and every other 9E guy) out of 2 months of seniority by forcing us to use sim date, while ensuring they (XJ) themselves and 9L are using their own class dates. You want me to sing kum ba yah?

Let me fix it for you:

They (XJ + 9L) have shown complete disregard to fairness in this integration and only talk about how they can justify screwing 9E for their personal advancement

How much seniority were the XJ/9L guys getting screwed out of with 9Es final proposal? Pot meet kettle.

 

[gojo]

Excuse you, my current disdain is with the XJ merger comittee trying to screw me (and every other 9E guy) out of 2 months of seniority by forcing us to use sim date, while ensuring they (XJ) themselves and 9L are using their own class dates. You want me to sing kum ba yah?

Let me fix it for you:

They (XJ + 9L) have shown complete disregard to fairness in this integration and only talk about how they can justify screwing 9E for their personal advancement

How much seniority were the XJ/9L guys getting screwed out of with 9Es final proposal? Pot meet kettle.

See I told you, pointless.

 

[mesaba13]

Flyer-You claim that past mergers have been all about career expectations but no one from 9E has posted what that expectation was. Before the merger date you had way more planes but roughly the same number of pilots. That tells me that your staffing model alows abuse. Other than the top 80 guys at 9E, who at 9E could have had a realistic career expectation of being a 900 captain (especially in MSP,DTW,MEM)? The 9E retirement sucked, the staffing model is to Junior man, sick policy, no trip gurantee, no block or better, and the list goes on and on.

Why can't some of you admit what XJ lacks in fleet size they make up for in larger aircraft and a much better starting point for the joint contract. There are an additional 41 CRJ-900's in three bases that your group will now have access to bid in time.

So again what was the career expectation for the 9E pilot group?