How many got hired and quit at Pinnacolaba in the past week?

[bri5150]

Management - What former Mesaba flight ops managers are going to be at PCL other than this DV guy?

Again, there is more to an airline than airplanes and flight ops.

Union leaders - Its unlikely that Mesaba will retain any reps in the combined MEC except for the MSP Council. 2 out of 14 of the voting reps is not exactly a strong influence.

God help us if this is the case. I don't see how any of the Pinnacle MEC can be voted in after the debacles that were proven in the past year, and after what happened in this past week.

Training centers - Who cares what building training is being done in (both training centers will remain in full swing by the way)? Answer this.....why was PCLs training program and procedures chosen for the CRJ fleet if Mesaba's was superior?

I am talking about the PEOPLE, not the building. Who gives a ********************e about the damn building. I bet PCLs training program was picked because you have more of the aircraft. Kind of like how Colgan's Cert was picked, not because it was better. It's the people of the training department that I credit with our safety record. Flight Safety doesn't count as a training program.

Chief Pilots - All of the Domicile Chief Pilots for the new PCL will be from the old PCL.

I only heard of DV moving, so I honestly concede this point for now.

Contracts - The JCBA barely even resembles the old Mesaba contract. Why do you guys keep claiming that we are all working under your old contract?

I really don't know what to say here. Unless your old contract and our old contract were the same word for word, this new one is ours almost word for word except for very few provisions. WORD for WORD. I honestly don't know how your old one read, but I am pretty sure it wasn't that similar to ours. How can you even dispute this? I was sitting in the roadshow, and I can't count how many times they said "and this came from the Mesaba contract". I bet they said "this came from the Pinnacle contract" about five times (if that).

p.s. Wow, super fail formatting here

 

[gojo]

Ha! You guys stay classy! He's referring to the closing date of 9E's latest vacancy. So someone got a whiff that Pinnacle has a vacancy for 15 CA RJ upgrades. (GASP! You know, something XJ hasn't seen in years). And then certain XJ guys decided that it's the 9E merger committee's goal to delay the award until June 10th because by then, the vacancy closes. Nothing could be further from the truth. In fact, the whole delay is because of XJs dispute in the first place. The whole DOH on sim date versus class date.

And before anyone at XJ or 9L gets super excited, I'd hold onto it for a while. Methinks that everyone will not be allowed to cross-jump the moment the ISL comes out. There is just far too much to integrate and instant movement would be impossible due to training constraints. I believe 9E already mentioned having operational fences to keep movement in-house until ready. My educated guess would be 6 months, probably January 1 2012 before we can jump across to others.

Guys, arguing with clown and doing time is pointless. They have shown complete disregard to fairness in this integration and only talk about how they can justify screwing 9L and XJ for their personal advancement.

 

[CptMurf]

I really don't know what to say here. Unless your old contract and our old contract were the same word for word, this new one is ours almost word for word except for very few provisions. WORD for WORD. I honestly don't know how your old one read, but I am pretty sure it wasn't that similar to ours. How can you even dispute this? I was sitting in the roadshow, and I can't count how many times they said "and this came from the Mesaba contract". I bet they said "this came from the Pinnacle contract" about five times (if that).

bri you forget, they would have gotten this contract or better on their own. It was just a matter of time.

On a side note... I was going to go picketing this afternoon for an SLI judgement. Would you like to join me?

 

[bri5150]

bri you forget, they would have gotten this contract or better on their own. It was just a matter of time.

On a side note... I was going to go picketing this afternoon for an SLI judgement. Would you like to join me?

Yeah, outside Arb. Bloch's house, right? I'll put the week delay on 9E, but other than that, Bloch needs to get his stuff together.

 

[CptMurf]

Flyer, when you and 9E can go 60+ years without a pilot acutally crashing or totaling an aircraft then you can boast about your saftey but until then zippit.

I'm as proud of XJs safety record as you. But we have had a Dash in a snow bank, an AVRO fall into a construction area, a Saab blow all the mains on landing, and we took 5 jetways in the prop on the first day of operating the new DTW terminal. I think what you mean to say was 60+ years without a fatality. We've dented some over the years too. We just didn't switch seats, accept a tailwind with a 2 hour old BA of poor, or taxi to the gate afterward.

 

[RJLoser]

Thanks murph. Not happy about accidents but it's nice to see humility. We all will gain and lose here. Time to start moving forward.

 

[Flyer1015]

Guys, arguing with clown and doing time is pointless. They have shown complete disregard to fairness in this integration and only talk about how they can justify screwing 9L and XJ for their personal advancement.

Excuse you, my current disdain is with the XJ merger comittee trying to screw me (and every other 9E guy) out of 2 months of seniority by forcing us to use sim date, while ensuring they (XJ) themselves and 9L are using their own class dates. You want me to sing kum ba yah?

Let me fix it for you:

They (XJ + 9L) have shown complete disregard to fairness in this integration and only talk about how they can justify screwing 9E for their personal advancement

 

[CptMurf]

Excuse you, my current disdain is with the XJ merger comittee trying to screw me (and every other 9E guy) out of 2 months of seniority by forcing us to use sim date, while ensuring they (XJ) themselves and 9L are using their own class dates. You want me to sing kum ba yah?

Let me fix it for you:

They (XJ + 9L) have shown complete disregard to fairness in this integration and only talk about how they can justify screwing 9E for their personal advancement

How much seniority were the XJ/9L guys getting screwed out of with 9Es final proposal? Pot meet kettle.

 

[gojo]

Excuse you, my current disdain is with the XJ merger comittee trying to screw me (and every other 9E guy) out of 2 months of seniority by forcing us to use sim date, while ensuring they (XJ) themselves and 9L are using their own class dates. You want me to sing kum ba yah?

Let me fix it for you:

They (XJ + 9L) have shown complete disregard to fairness in this integration and only talk about how they can justify screwing 9E for their personal advancement

How much seniority were the XJ/9L guys getting screwed out of with 9Es final proposal? Pot meet kettle.

See I told you, pointless.

 

[mesaba13]

Flyer-You claim that past mergers have been all about career expectations but no one from 9E has posted what that expectation was. Before the merger date you had way more planes but roughly the same number of pilots. That tells me that your staffing model alows abuse. Other than the top 80 guys at 9E, who at 9E could have had a realistic career expectation of being a 900 captain (especially in MSP,DTW,MEM)? The 9E retirement sucked, the staffing model is to Junior man, sick policy, no trip gurantee, no block or better, and the list goes on and on.

Why can't some of you admit what XJ lacks in fleet size they make up for in larger aircraft and a much better starting point for the joint contract. There are an additional 41 CRJ-900's in three bases that your group will now have access to bid in time.

So again what was the career expectation for the 9E pilot group?

 

[mesaba13]

Oh and don't tell me that you were just going to just get all that stuff in your new contract without XJ. If you say that than I would respond that we were also going to find flying for the Saabs.

 

[bri5150]

Excuse you, my current disdain is with the XJ merger comittee trying to screw me (and every other 9E guy) out of 2 months of seniority by forcing us to use sim date, while ensuring they (XJ) themselves and 9L are using their own class dates. You want me to sing kum ba yah?

Let me fix it for you:

They (XJ + 9L) have shown complete disregard to fairness in this integration and only talk about how they can justify screwing 9E for their personal advancement

We are trying to screw you out of two months in which you didn't work for your company (you were a contractor)? You are the one that took the job and accepted the fact you weren't hired until you finished your sim stuff. Sounds to me like you were screwing yourself. As my previous posts show, I always thought it was fair to move your DOH to the same as ours, but the audible Pinnacle opinion of trying to screw the other guys has made me rethink my opinion on the subject. Using your current DOH to integrate has more legal merit than using the damn LOA, or putting almost all the XJ and Colgan pilots below 9E on the seniority list. Sounds to me like we pretty much gifted you that provision as opposed to using every means possible to screw you with it. Make no mistake, the past week's debacle was not about whether or not to allow shifting your DOH's. That issue was resolved a long time ago. It was about suspicious activity on the new list they presented to Mr. Bloch. And from what I hear, it was even screwing some of your own pilot group.

 

[bri5150]

In order to get a new contract before the merger, I am sure you would have had to been released to strike. I may be wrong, but isn't there language in the ASA that says if you strike it opens the ASA? I remember hearing that a while back and thinking about how screwed you guys were.

 

[Flyer1015]

How much seniority were the XJ/9L guys getting screwed out of with 9Es final proposal? Pot meet kettle.

They key word there is FINAL proposal. 9E's merger committee tried several varying ways to negotiate towards this integration. Both XJ and 9L were steadfast on their own methods, DOH and realtive, respectively. That is a straight-up method of all DOH or all relative. There is no room for negotiating when you present a straight-up (all or nothing) method. 9E tried several different things. In fact, one offer to Colgan was something they are probably gonna regret turning down. A combo of relative/DOH for Colgan. As for the XJ, a combo or relative/DOH as well, but dependant on aircraft that are currently covered under air service agreement (basically, RJs only). There were quite a few different proposals put out by the 9E committee, but unfortunately, unless it was straight up DOH, XJ didn't wanna hear it, and unless it was straight up relative, 9L didn't wanna hear it. And you mean to tell me that those two groups weren't trying to get as much of a seniority grab for themselves, with their own proposal? 9E hesitantly had to submit the final view, when everyone knows that almost no group wanted to negotiate towards an integration. In fact, one particular group wanted everything to be in the hands of the arbitrator far, far before Apr 15.

 

[Flyer1015]

We are trying to screw you out of two months in which you didn't work for your company (you were a contractor)? You are the one that took the job and accepted the fact you weren't hired until you finished your sim stuff. Sounds to me like you were screwing yourself.

I *did* work for the company since my class date. I filled out all the employment forms, I was in their HR system, the I9 form, I got paychecks every friday from "Pinnacle Airlines" written on them. Your argument that I didn't work for the company holds no water. Pinnacle even gave me a seniority number on day of class, as had everyone else. Your arguments just don't hold any water.