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Gary Kelly's ATN Comments at Message To The Field

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Cometman said:
Sure it is. SWA bought you. If you really think that you get to keep your seniority and all the other benefits you are dreaming. Fair and Equitable doesn't mean you get everything and they get nothing. I understand what you want but it really will not happen in the real world.
Click to expand...

An arbitrator will decide the seniority list, not you. Take a look at the most recent decision yesterday for Frontier and Republic to get a glimpse into your own future.

OYS
 
That was a merger of equals. (equally crummy) This is an acquisition with the acquiring carrier being dominant in every aspect of the deal. Apples and Oranges.
 
LandGreen said:
The AirTran guys are not this stupid, cometman! They would never trade seniority for a temporary pay increase. Pay is ALWAYS temporary, seniority is forever!

Relative SLI will be great for the Tranny guys/gals, without a whole lot of upside to junior SWA guys who were told of 6 year upgrades...those guys will be pissed, but oh well...welcome to large carrier status in the airline biz!
Click to expand...

In your dreams. I understand this is what you want. However, you will never get it. If you think a third party will take a small airline with 1700 pilots that is really considered a large regional and put them in the same position as they were (relative) you are dreaming. You are being bought because you cannot compete anymore and you do not have the money to buy SWA. Accept the fact. The best you can get will be a ratio of some sort. SWA has to get something since you are getting everything you want. Pay increase, great company, financially secure, bases, retirement, need I continue? SWA gets nothing except a seniority bump. Good luck anyway. You know you will be happy working for SWA rather than Airtran.
 
An arbitrator will decide the seniority list, not you. Take a look at the most recent decision yesterday for Frontier and Republic to get a glimpse into your own future.
Click to expand...
An interesting outcome, why yes, how did that work out for the aquired pilots who had better QOL, pay, etc? Oh thats right, not very. So why would an arbitor decide to favor an aquired group with lower benefits?
 
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GuppyWN said:
I wake up every morning and thank God that Gary is buying Airtran. Without this deal SWA could have never figured out how to fly international.

Gup
Click to expand...

Guppy,

Well, why didn't SW do it then w/out buying AT? :laugh:

Look, don't take it the wrong way, but if you (and me as well, and may be most people on this forum) were as smart as Kelly, BF, KG, etc. and other loved or hated executives, you would be making A LOT MORE MONEY, making intelligent decisions for thousands of people and controlling corporations. Instead you just fly automated airplanes, staring at infinity during hours of boredom in cruise, talking about boats or golf and reading a free copy of USA Today. And waisting your time in these pointless forums.:laugh:

Obviously SW management thought that buying AT was a smart decision. Not only because of ATL. Not only for international flying. Not only for getting rid of a cheaper and probably a successful competitor. I am betting there are MANY other reasons that you don't know, or may be you (and me included) wouldn't even be able to understand due to the fact that you are simply:
a. not intelligent enough
b. don't have experience as an aviation analyst
c. don't have and MBA or an appropriate education
d. never held any other job besides flying airplanes
etc.etc.etc.

So, when you (and others) say sth like "AT pilots should fall down to their knees in gratefulness", it sounds like a conversation between two kindergarten kids that argue that "my dad can beat your dad's a$$".
 
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Flying-Corporal said:
Guppy,

Well, why didn't SW do it then w/out buying AT? :laugh:

Look, don't take it the wrong way, but if you (and me as well, and may be most people on this forum) were as smart as Kelly, BF, KG, etc. and other loved or hated executives, you would be making good money, making intelligent decisions and controlling corporations. Instead you just fly automated airplanes, staring at infinity during hours of boredom in cruise, talking about boats or golf and reading a free copy of USA Today.

Obviously SW management thought that buying AT was a smart decision. Not only because of ATL. Not only for international flying. Not only for getting rid of a cheaper and probably a successful competitor. I am betting there are MANY other reasons that you don't know, or may be you (and me included) wouldn't even be able to understand due to the fact that you are simply:
a. not intelligent enough
b. don't have experience as an aviation analyst
c. don't MBA or appropriate education
d. never held any other job besides flying airplanes
etc.etc.etc.

So, when you (and others) say sth like "AT pilots should fall down to their knees in gratefulness", it sounds like a conversation between two kindergarten kids that argue that "my dad can beat your dad's a$$".
Click to expand...

Nothing like watching one of your kindergarten classmates getting dressed down by the teacher............
 
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Cometman said:
You seem to be as smart as the other 2 from Airtran. You know who I mean, don't you? The only difference is nobody knows who you are at the present time but they know who the other 2 are.
Click to expand...

So what? The arbitrator will know their names too, when he places them ahead of you. Keep repeating to yourself that you WON'T be affected by an arbitrator's award. Keep doing it, then maybe it will be true! This is interesting to watch because of your group's insistence that you will get everything that you want. What a trainwreck waiting to happen.


OYS
 
Corporal,

You guys really want to go down the road arguing about what Gary Kelly could have done?

Yea, he could have continued to grow Southwest, bought bigger planes earlier, and even gone to Atlanta along with international routes. He made a tactical decision to save a ton of cash and not do those things, for one reason, to buy another carrier.

Why Airtran? They really weren't that expensive for what he was getting. Airtan didn't really have that much cash on hand and was starting to bump into decreasing markets for growth. BF knew that when Gary called.

Gary runs the company, so he decided this path. It was inexpensive and easy. But it could get more and more expensive if he doesn't somehow manage the labor integration. And I guarantee he won't throw 30,000 Southwest employees under the bus and ruin Herb's company over it.

If this gets nasty, there probably won't be an SLI.

You don't have to be an MBA to figure any of this out, just pay attention and follow previous SEC filings. Maybe even listen to a conference call every now and then. Most of which people are too lazy to do.
 
On Your Six said:
So what? The arbitrator will know their names too, when he places them ahead of you. Keep repeating to yourself that you WON'T be affected by an arbitrator's award. Keep doing it, then maybe it will be true! This is interesting to watch because of your group's insistence that you will get everything that you want. What a trainwreck waiting to happen.


OYS
Click to expand...

What makes you think I work for SWA? Nobody will be ahead of me. I love when you and the other 2 idiots answer me. You guys are so easy.
 
On Your Six said:
Did you Southwest pilots see the SLI award for Frontier and Republic? Another relative award with several totally different type companies. I don't think your staple dreams will come even remotely true. Take a look at the award if you have time. It will open your eyes, big time.


OYS
Click to expand...

Look again.

The top of the list contains only two of the represented groups.
The bottom of the list contains only one group.

Ask a Midwest FO if there was a staple.
 
ivauir said:
Look again.

The top of the list contains only two of the represented groups.
The bottom of the list contains only one group.

Ask a Midwest FO if there was a staple.
Click to expand...

Midwest pilots had NO planes left. You can't compare them to the Airtran pilots, even though you wish to. The key for you is the mixture of the top two groups, kinda like your own 2 groups. Get it, yet? You will.

OYS
 
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Cometman said:
Small airline with 1700 pilots that is really considered a large regional
Click to expand...
Maybe Airtran can sign a contract with Volaris to do some codesharing so Airtran can get some international exposure.
Cometman said:
You are being bought because you cannot compete anymore.
Click to expand...
My bad, I was confused to why Southwest announced they were cutting 37 daily Florida departures last March as Airtran continues to add more and more Florida capacity. You cleared that question up for me. Did you write the following article?

http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/20...rt-lauderdale-southwest-airlines-major-cities
 
My bad, I was confused to why Southwest announced they were cutting 37 daily Florida departures last March as Airtran continues to add more and more Florida capacity. You cleared that question up for me. Did you write the following article?
Click to expand...

It is called strategery. They eliminated overlapping routes so the DOJ process is seemless and they optimized the flight schedule. It is a novel idea that has created nearly 40 years of profitability. You probably wouldn't be bought with chump change if your airline had the same type of forethought.

You are in severe denial if you think the flight cutbacks had anything to do with AirTran's competitive pressure. This was a well played strategic move and nothing more.
 
On Your Six said:
Midwest pilots had NO planes left. You can't compare them to the Airtran pilots, even though you wish to. The key for you is the mixture of the top two groups, kinda like your own 2 groups. Get it, yet? You will.

OYS
Click to expand...

OYS,

Relax big fella.

I agree that accurate comparisons are very difficult to make, you were the one over simplifying the award.

Even using your standard and only comparing the top two groups (which is suspect), there is one group with no pilots anywhere near the bottom. For the bottom republic pilot this still looks like a staple.
 
Ok, Guy's. I have relaxed a little on here. It was nice to take some time off, and I will continue to do so. The reason why is AT will be subsidiary of SWA. It is what eagle is to AMR (but no whipsaw because AT cant grow). This is really in the hands of the shareholders of AT. They choose the what will happen. SWA will have another company to run. They will run it till they see fit. Two certificates two carriers. This can go down in so many ways. This is not a true merger or a F9/RH deal.
 
texman said:
Ok, Guy's. I have relaxed a little on here. It was nice to take some time off, and I will continue to do so. The reason why is AT will be subsidiary of SWA. It is what eagle is to AMR (but no whipsaw because AT cant grow). This is really in the hands of the shareholders of AT. They choose the what will happen. SWA will have another company to run. They will run it till they see fit. Two certificates two carriers. This can go down in so many ways. This is not a true merger or a F9/RH deal.
Click to expand...


Better re-read your Merger Committee Chairman's letter that was made
available.

He said Bond-MeKaskill is in play if an agreement isn't reached.

Of course, I'm sure you know better than he does.
 
kwick said:
Better re-read your Merger Committee Chairman's letter that was made
available.

He said Bond-MeKaskill is in play if an agreement isn't reached.

Of course, I'm sure you know better than he does.
Click to expand...

Well, of course it is. But never will apply if the Sub LLC is not fully merged into SWA. We come on here and talk what is fair and who is going to steal what seat. But what merger transaction is it the pre or sub? If I was a owner and had a sub biz, I could do what ever I want with. I am not saying that GK is going to shut down AT or sell assets. What I am saying is SWA has more control than you think. He could take 49% of the sub llc and merge it into mainline SWA. Then M/B will never apply.
 
roughneck said:
It is called strategery. They eliminated overlapping routes so the DOJ process is seemless and they optimized the flight schedule. It is a novel idea that has created nearly 40 years of profitability. You probably wouldn't be bought with chump change if your airline had the same type of forethought.

You are in severe denial if you think the flight cutbacks had anything to do with AirTran's competitive pressure. This was a well played strategic move and nothing more.
Click to expand...
Are you sure Gary Kelly's strategery wasn't to shift capacity from markets where there was stronger competitors (Airtran and Allegiant in Florida) to markets where there were weaker competitors (Frontier in Denver)?

Here are the capacity numbers for pre and post Great Recession/Fuel Spike of 2008/2009:

Airtran 2007: 22.7 Billion ASMs
Airtran 2010: 24.1 Billion ASMs (up about 6%)

Southwest 2007: 99.6 Billion ASMs
Southwest 2010: 98.4 Billion ASMs (down about 1%)

It looks like Airtran made it through the downturn pretty well and was able to find more opportunities for growth than Southwest (especially in the Caribbean). That is why Gary Kelly pulled the trigger on the deal. This merger makes both companies stronger than either of them would of been alone. I believe that was the exact words of Laura Wright at one of those Wall St airline conferences just last month.
 
maxblast72 said:
Are you sure Gary Kelly's strategery wasn't to shift capacity from markets where there was stronger competitors (Airtran and Allegiant in Florida) to markets where there were weaker competitors (Frontier in Denver)?

Here are the capacity numbers for pre and post Great Recession/Fuel Spike of 2008/2009:

Airtran 2007: 22.7 Billion ASMs
Airtran 2010: 24.1 Billion ASMs (up about 6%)

Southwest 2007: 99.6 Billion ASMs
Southwest 2010: 98.4 Billion ASMs (down about 1%)

It looks like Airtran made it through the downturn pretty well and was able to find more opportunities for growth than Southwest (especially in the Caribbean). That is why Gary Kelly pulled the trigger on the deal. This merger makes both companies stronger than either of them would of been alone. I believe that was the exact words of Laura Wright at one of those Wall St airline conferences just last month.
Click to expand...

I can agree with you max. Well self minded pilots all know that this is a good deal for all. But the growth you guys are lacking is going to come from SWA too. In a much larger way than you think.
 

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