Gary Kelly's ATN Comments at Message To The Field

[PapaWoody]

In a merger, there are shortcuts to better pay, for at least one of the two groups. Fairness for the SLIs are better decided by arbitrators, not union types or management. And your contract really came from the Delta rates, which originally started with United. I should know, I was there.

OYS

Actually, our contract came from SWAPA's negotiations and the fact that our company can actually afford to pay our rates, partly because we are the most productive and efficient pilots in the business and mostly because their business plan doesn't suck. Unlike the United and Delta business plans. Remember, we negotiated and gained our contract in 2002, which was during the time you were giving it all (and then some) back, along with the accompanying furloughs (another SWA difference) if memory serves. Of course, when you go through your next round of contract talks, any gains you might realize should be at least partly credited to SWAPA carrying the water for the last decade. I should know, I was there.

PapaWoody

 

[Dolce]

Kinda funny SWAPA was able to negotiate a contract after 2001 while all the big players have been giving back for almost 10 years! So OYS, our contract hasn't come from the so-called "big player" contract of DAL or UAL! The sad part is many of my bros asked me why I applied at SWA in 2001...better pay, retirement, bigger planes and better destinations at the "real" carriers. Funny how a few days in September can destroy so many airlines...not. They may have been hiring, but they were not in a position to sustain the operations they had going. So don't tell us we have you and ALPA to thank for any contracts SWAPA negotiated because it just isn't correct!

D

 

[flynvixen]

I think you spending a very long time on the AirTran island is more likely.

We like to call it the citrus RJ corral, they should pack a bag the stay may be a long one.

Cheers Vato's

 

[flynvixen]

In a merger, there are shortcuts to better pay, for at least one of the two groups. Fairness for the SLIs are better decided by arbitrators, not union types or management. And your contract really came from the Delta rates, which originally started with United. I should know, I was there.

OYS

Great job, ALPA and the brain surgeons at United (their descriptions of themselves not mine) started the fire that burned down the industry and now they want the money back and still want to continue throwing gas on the fires.

They will never get the money back and will never see crazy work rules and huge money for no work contracts again.

They thought they were going to choke the golden goose just a bit more and they ended up killing it.....good job ALPA now they cry and blame management. Its hard to make money at an airline when you have pilots that wont fly and demand to sit home and complain while plotting to burn the company down while running their yogurt shop.

You guys would complain if you had to work one day a month, please go out and get real jobs so you can see how good you have it and give the seat to some one who wants to fly.

Cheers Vato's

 

[Flopgut]

Funny how a few days in September can destroy so many airlines...not.

That's the ugliest comment I've heard on here in long time. It's no secret that that September was a real boost for SWA, but it's still too recent for you to be so flagrant.

If there is any SWA pilot with integrity left monitoring FI, would you please invite this clown Dolce to can it? And Vixen as well while you are at it....

 

[Kharma Police]

That's the ugliest comment I've heard on here in long time. It's no secret that that September was a real boost for SWA, but it's still too recent for you to be so flagrant.

If there is any SWA pilot with integrity left monitoring FI, would you please invite this clown Dolce to can it? And Vixen as well while you are at it....

Airtran ALPA has the class to at least try and police its own pilots, I have yet to read or hear of SWAPA giving us the same courtesy.

 

[Flopgut]

I've tried to tone down our [CAL] village idiot on here with a few PMs with some success. You Airtran guys are really keeping it together very professionally. Kwick is a bit of a tool, but he always has been....

 

[Dolce]

Flopout,
You know exactly what I was talking about! The airlines who were clamoring for government handouts because they had to set on the ground for several days after the attacks. They were in trouble long before 9/11, so don't try to take the sanctimonious high road against me with the "it's too recent to be so flagrant" beat down and calling for my head on a platter. Brother, I was serving my country during this period and still am! I'm guessing from your avatar, you know exactly what I'm talking about, and for that matter, what Vixin was stating also. Funny thing is, my reservist brothers who fly for OALs like to talk about their checks they get for setting at home instead of working for them. So go try to start a witch hunt somewhere else and worry about your own SLI. By the way, a unions job is to protect it's members all the while not destroying the means in which they rely on to survive!

D

 

[S3sundowner]

YGBSM floppy; some of the baiting from the likes of Ty Webb (who has been "found out" btw, so he's "backed off") has been off the scale. But I do agree that some of the swa guys should tone it down and go cut the grass or something. Nothing gets solved on here but let's be fair; the mud slinging from the aai pilots has been rife on here too and the swa pilots are very aware of it.

 

[Flopgut]

Flopout,
You know exactly what I was talking about! The airlines who were clamoring for government handouts because they had to set on the ground for several days after the attacks. They were in trouble long before 9/11, so don't try to take the sanctimonious high road against me with the "it's too recent to be so flagrant" beat down and calling for my head on a platter. Brother, I was serving my country during this period and still am! I'm guessing from your avatar, you know exactly what I'm talking about, and for that matter, what Vixin was stating also. Funny thing is, my reservist brothers who fly for OALs like to talk about their checks they get for setting at home instead of working for them. So go try to start a witch hunt somewhere else and worry about your own SLI. By the way, a unions job is to protect it's members all the while not destroying the means in which they rely on to survive!

D

No dude, you and Vixen are way off base here. Every airline got re-imbursed for the time grounded. Most who applied for ATSB money got turned down. UAL got turned down twice. The second one was what wiped out the retirement. They probably deserved to get the money the second time. What the ATSB enabled at UAL was for poor mgt to make petty, easy changes that didn't help the business but hammered labor. But, that's really another discussion...

Remember, in 2001 UAL was a Dow Component. And they had been for a very long time. That's a big difference in what we see right now in SWA. You do great work and you've got a great company. But you'll work a long time before you'll match UAL's history. Until you put the dollars way out in front of where any major pilot contract put it in the past, you won't get any credit for helping this profession.

Additionally, when you and FlynVixen pop off about these OAL pilots not working, remember they are doing something a lot different than you. I don't feel like I work a lot right now, but I'm close to FAR limit at any given time. 10 to 17 hour legs will do that to your schedule. You don't do that stuff so it's easy to forget that it is out there. If anything, I've got even more respect for legacy pilots after having started to fly to some far reaches of the globe and seeing so many AA, DAL, and UAL airplanes. They are out there all day every day and they have been for 50+ years. These pilots sit around a lot because when they do take off they stay in the air for a long time. You just think you work a lot because you don't go anywhere.

 

[Flopgut]

YGBSM floppy; some of the baiting from the likes of Ty Webb (who has been "found out" btw, so he's "backed off") has been off the scale. But I do agree that some of the swa guys should tone it down and go cut the grass or something. Nothing gets solved on here but let's be fair; the mud slinging from the aai pilots has been rife on here too and the swa pilots are very aware of it.

Well, ok maybe so. Ty always has been a character on here, but maybe he said something I missed. I jumped in because 911 ought to be off limits and I think most all of us agree. I can't believe it's SWA/Airtran that is getting so heated. You'd think it was UAL/CAL that would get crazy.

 

[S3sundowner]

Flop agreed. I think most of the trannies are still running up their champagne bills, bar (no pun intended) one or two on here. No matter how this plays out, they are all going to be in a better place.

 

[Dolce]

Flop,
I was posting to someone who said we owe DAL for our contract...wrong. You are right, many companies have been mismanaged and most have been through bankruptcy and got to start over while others have been fighting the fight without that get out of jail free card! And another point...don't try to trivialize what I do compared to the long haul, autopilot monitoring with a relief pilot work you do! Also, don't talk to me about helping this profession when you live in a glass house...what have any of the majors recently done to help our profession? I don't see too many getting their pensions or pay that set the industry standard back in the day. Why don't you talk to me about how the majors have a handle on their scope clauses? What about work rules? You may look down your nose at SWA and it's employees as less than equal, but we're doing our best and you can't deny we have achieved more with our union than you have with yours! Does ALPA allow all of your pilots to be members? I wonder if they do with AAI if you get my drift? I'll quit bringing up the "date that can't be said" so I won't offend you and your sacred sensibilities about how a professional aviator should respond!

D

 

[PapaWoody]

Well, ok maybe so. Ty always has been a character on here, but maybe he said something I missed. I jumped in because 911 ought to be off limits and I think most all of us agree. I can't believe it's SWA/Airtran that is getting so heated. You'd think it was UAL/CAL that would get crazy.

I agree that 9/11 should be off limits. The havoc that it wreaked on the industry was substantial and it definitely accelerated the cyclical nature of the industry, which had been entering a downward phase since Spring of 2001. However, I don't believe that Dolce or any of the SWA guys meant to step on 9/11 toes, I think that they (however un-tactfully) were just trying to point out that our business plan and our compensation and work rules were and are better suited to weather the cyclical nature of this industry. I do agree that it could have been said better, though.

As for the SWA guys being more heated and irrational in their arguments and stance, I would respectfully disagree. I believe there are factions on both sides that are being unrealistic in their expectations. But, at the end of the day, no matter how this turns out, every AAI guy or gal that eventually falls under the SWAPA umbrella will realize an average career gain of over $1,000,000. SWA guys could actually lose money over the course of our careers with this deal. So I think it is natural for SWA guys to react more emotionally because, quite frankly, we have more at stake here. Only time will tell if this is a good thing for a SWA pilot's career, whereas it is almost certainly an unprecedented career gain for the AAI pilots.

Honestly, I hope this a good thing for my career and I also hope it is good for every SWA and AAI pilot's career. Although I think it will likely end up in arbitration, I do think their is a chance that we can negotiate an agreement that is mutually beneficial to all, assuming we can all go into it with reasonable expectations and leave the egos at home. It would be unusual in this industry, but AAI and SWA have been doing things differently from the legacies their whole lives, why should this be any different. Here's hoping we can continue that trend.

Fraternally,
PapaWoody

 

[flynvixen]

Airtran ALPA has the class to at least try and police its own pilots, I have yet to read or hear of SWAPA giving us the same courtesy.

Then stop demanding to get in our left seat on top of all else you are getting.

Take the great deal your getting and be happy look forward to flying with you but if you push for not is yours then the fight is no baby.