Gary Kelly's ATN Comments at Message To The Field

[Ty Webb]

Congrats Ty, you and your bloated ego got your very own paragraph from our union. Pathetic.

Not true . . . .

But what is true is that, despite four months of exchanging opinions on this forum, little, if anything, has been gained from these exchanges. If anything, the exchanges have gotten worse instead of better, and instead of finding common ground, people have only become more entrenched. In that respect, I agree with both unions- there is nothing to be gained from further posts on the subject.
:beer:

 

[General Lee]

Gen nuts don't start. I like that you come on all the SWA boards and start shiz. I would like to point out is the delta guy's love to instigate our boards. What you need to do is take what you know about your merger and keep it to your self. This is acquisition/merger is different than yours. Putting AT guy's down come on Gen nut's! That remark is a tactic on your part to put anger in the AT's guy's head.

Your post has the MOST apostrophes I have ever seen. Great job with that. Anyway............don't slam me for trying to put anger in the Airtran pilots' heads. You guys are doing a great job of that already. I just suggested that the Airtran guys should just take the SLI to arbitration, and see how it goes. I can see why you wouldn't want that. ALPA will do that and they will get better positions on the list compared to what SWAPA would offer them. That is a fact, and I have a feeling they will follow that. I would if I were them. Good luck to all of you.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[redflyer65]

General,

Your way off base on this one. With a stockpile of gains on the Airtran side and nothing gained by the Southwest pilots, you really think an arbitor is just going to sign off on realitive seniority or anything close to it?

This is more like Delta merging with the Comair seniority list than with Northwest. Tell me I'm wrong.

Would you give Comair realitive seniority at Delta and welcome them aboard for a massive payraise?

and before I get flamed...the pay differences between DL737 FO vs Comair are within a few percentage points of the SW/AAI acquisiton.

 

[Kharma Police]

General,

Your way off base on this one. With a stockpile of gains on the Airtran side and nothing gained by the Southwest pilots, you really think an arbitor is just going to sign off on realitive seniority or anything close to it?

This is more like Delta merging with the Comair seniority list than with Northwest. Tell me I'm wrong.

Would you give Comair realitive seniority at Delta and welcome them aboard for a massive payraise?

and before I get flamed...the pay differences between DL737 FO vs Comair are within a few percentage points of the SW/AAI acquisiton.

You are trying to convince a Delta pilot that happens to disagree with your point of view. My question is, WHY?

 

[Bill Nelson]

Swapa hasn't said anything about pilots posting on public forums. They asked us not to do it on the Swapa forum.

Sounds like ALPA is concerned about the Muse Air solution. The facts stand on their own.

How is a southwest pilot explaining why a staple is fair going to hurt Swapa in the SLI? It isn't.

On the other hand, AirTran pilots demanding relative seniority could effect Alpa's chance to even participate in an SLI. Muse Air is spelled "relative" in some circles.

 

[redflyer65]

Why?

Because he's completely off base with his assumptions throughout this whole thread. Makes no difference who he works for.

 

[Kharma Police]

Why?

Because he's completely off base with his assumptions throughout this whole thread. Makes no difference who he works for.

You guys can argue if a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound but it won't make a difference in the arbitration.

Whatever the outcome, I have accepted the fact that I have no control over the situation, I suggest you try it too.

 

[400ADude]

Swapa hasn't said anything about pilots posting on public forums. They asked us not to do it on the Swapa forum.

Sounds like ALPA is concerned about the Muse Air solution. The facts stand on their own.

How is a southwest pilot explaining why a staple is fair going to hurt Swapa in the SLI? It isn't.

On the other hand, AirTran pilots demanding relative seniority could effect Alpa's chance to even participate in an SLI. Muse Air is spelled "relative" in some circles.

You hit a home run here Bill. The Airtran MEC is worried about this going the Muse way or at least a good portion of it.

 

[On Your Six]

Swapa hasn't said anything about pilots posting on public forums. They asked us not to do it on the Swapa forum.

Sounds like ALPA is concerned about the Muse Air solution. The facts stand on their own.

How is a southwest pilot explaining why a staple is fair going to hurt Swapa in the SLI? It isn't.

On the other hand, AirTran pilots demanding relative seniority could effect Alpa's chance to even participate in an SLI. Muse Air is spelled "relative" in some circles.

The arbitrators will probably use more recent precedent instead of your Muse Air example. More likely the Nicalau award with USAir. AWA was a lot smaller than USAir and a younger company, but relative still prevailed except for the top 500 spots going to USAir due to International Ops. Airtran actually has the international ops for SWA, so that may make it even more interesting.



OYS

 

[FlyinGuy]

Not true . . . .

But what is true is that, despite four months of exchanging opinions on this forum, little, if anything, has been gained from these exchanges. If anything, the exchanges have gotten worse instead of better, and instead of finding common ground, people have only become more entrenched. In that respect, I agree with both unions- there is nothing to be gained from further posts on the subject.
:beer:

That right there is funny!! Ty you are the king when it comes to AT/SWA SLI discussions. I guess you forgot all of your rants on how relative is how this should go down? Anyways, congrats on getting noticed by your NC. I know that is a huge accomplishment.

 

[GuppyWN]

The arbitrators will probably use more recent precedent instead of your Muse Air example. More likely the Nicalau award with USAir. AWA was a lot smaller than USAir and a younger company, but relative still prevailed except for the top 500 spots going to USAir due to International Ops. Airtran actually has the international ops for SWA, so that may make it even more interesting.



OYS

I wake up every morning and thank God that Gary is buying Airtran. Without this deal SWA could have never figured out how to fly international.

Gup

 

[Juniority]

I'm betting the economy craps itself again and the integration never happens..... SWA goes into survival mode and ends up furloughing a bunch of us too.

 

[CaptAntoineMack]

Your union finally had to bring the obvious to some you Trannys attention. Some did not believe me when I said you were harming your own interests by attacking the SWA folks on this board. Your MC understands who has what and who wants what.

I say again, this is the only voice being heard for now. And call it a first impression that totally crashed and burned.

There is going to be the need of damage control if or when our lists integrate. I can tell you that word has spread about the unfair small sample of AT pilots and what they expect from this acquisition. Hopefully this will pass so if we operate as one, there will not be the lasting stereotype of being a "Tranny" by all the flight crews.

 

[StopNTSing]

Whatever the outcome, I have accepted the fact that I have no control over the situation, I suggest you try it too.

But what is true is that, despite four months of exchanging opinions on this forum, little, if anything, has been gained from these exchanges. If anything, the exchanges have gotten worse instead of better, and instead of finding common ground, people have only become more entrenched. In that respect, I agree with both unions- there is nothing to be gained from further posts on the subject.

Then why can't you guys just STFU? I would bet that if the two of you would just take a hiatus from posting, the next SWA-ATN acquisition thread wouldn't get to a second page before fizzling out.

 

[General Lee]

Your union finally had to bring the obvious to some you Trannys attention. Some did not believe me when I said you were harming your own interests by attacking the SWA folks on this board. Your MC understands who has what and who wants what.

I say again, this is the only voice being heard for now. And call it a first impression that totally crashed and burned.

There is going to be the need of damage control if or when our lists integrate. I can tell you that word has spread about the unfair small sample of AT pilots and what they expect from this acquisition. Hopefully this will pass so if we operate as one, there will not be the lasting stereotype of being a "Tranny" by all the flight crews.

What will be interesting is when the SWA guys actually "understand" what has happened after finally viewing the final SLI. Arbitrators don't care about your egos. They don't care about what you "could be" making HAD you upgraded already. (look at NWA guys expecting faster upgrades thanks to scheduled retirements that never really happened) Those arbitrators will look at what each of you brings to the table, and that doesn't include your W2's. When it's over, expect BOTH SWA and AT pilots at the BOTTOM of your combined list. What happens to the top and middle is up in the air. And, there will be plenty of nicknames for SWA pilots too after this is over, like "Southwest Sobbers" (like "Western Whiners" at DL) or "Corn holers" from the Corndog nickname. Regardless, you will all have to fly with each other, and that will be plenty fun, no doubt. BTW, I LOVE YOU GUYS! YOU'RE FANTASTIC.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[CaptAntoineMack]

For the love of Christ General,

How many pencils did you eat when your were an abused step child?

14,662 posts with likely not a single constructive opinion.

You have issues dude.

 

[scoreboardII]

CAM, try this, an ignore list:

• BILL LUMBERG
• General Lee
• johnsonrod
• Scope out RJ's
• Simon Says

 

[Kharma Police]

Then why can't you guys just STFU? I would bet that if the two of you would just take a hiatus from posting, the next SWA-ATN acquisition thread wouldn't get to a second page before fizzling out.

I am are only responding to threats and feeble attempts at intimidation. I make no demands on how the SLI should be done but you guys seem to love to tell us over and over how we should do this or accept that. The one thing that seems to drive you guys nuts is when anyone says the word ARBITRATION, it's like kicking over an ant hill, they are in your myopic eyes, "being unreasonable". Now, because our union, yes, the Evil Diabolic ALPA has told us to knock it off, you guys are suddenly pretending to be Mother Teresa playing the victim. But please oh please, don't let me stop you, continue with your, "I hate the Tranny, let's staple them" circle jerk all you want, I don't care but the arbitrator just might.

 

[Bob Dylan]

My source tells me that there will absolutely be no arbitration. That is one certainty so far. I'm also hearing that the two groups will remain separate for a long time, and possibly never be combined.

This from a very good source. FWIW

 

[Kharma Police]

My source tells me that there will absolutely be no arbitration. That is one certainty so far. I'm also hearing that the two groups will remain separate for a long time, and possibly never be combined.

This from a very good source. FWIW

Which one of your sock puppet friends leaked the confidential information? I want to know, there will be an extra dose of bleach for your offending sock puppet friend once ALPA gets their hands on him!

 

[Bob Dylan]

Which one of your sock puppet friends leaked the confidential information? I want to know, there will be an extra dose of bleach for your offending sock puppet friend once ALPA gets their hands on him!

To an outsider like me, the outcome of this is so obvious. 100% of AT pilots want the merger, 99% of SWA pilots don't want it or couldn't care less. With those numbers, AT pilots aren't going to get anything unless they give something, and that something, in my opinion, is a staple.

You really need to face the facts, SWA doesn't need AT jets or any of the AT pilots. He wants gates and routes. Once AT is acquired, you won't see the same capacity in the market. The capacity will shrink, and that's part of the plan. That's part of the deal with all m/a transactions. And accepting that, you don't really think SWA pilots are going to lose there jobs do you? It will be you guys that will slowly be closed down.

Your only option at this point is a preferential interview. By the time this is over, you guys will have to beg for a staple. Which probably will be declined.

Like I said, pretty easy to see from the outside looking in. No flames here, JMO.

 

[Kharma Police]

To an outsider like me, the outcome of this is so obvious. 100% of AT pilots want the merger, 99% of SWA pilots don't want it or couldn't care less. With those numbers, AT pilots aren't going to get anything unless they give something, and that something, in my opinion, is a staple.

You really need to face the facts, SWA doesn't need AT jets or any of the AT pilots. He wants gates and routes. Once AT is acquired, you won't see the same capacity in the market. The capacity will shrink, and that's part of the plan. That's part of the deal with all m/a transactions. And accepting that, you don't really think SWA pilots are going to lose there jobs do you? It will be you guys that will slowly be closed down.

Your only option at this point is a preferential interview. By the time this is over, you guys will have to beg for a staple. Which probably will be declined.

Like I said, pretty easy to see from the outside looking in. No flames here, JMO.

Thank you again for your, "outside looking in" opinion I will have my sock puppet associate (who is also a stockbroker btw) e-mail the NMB with your thoughtful suggestions. I can only hope the NMB is quick with their replies to my sock puppet friend (who is also a stockbroker) before it's too late to convince my fellow Trannys!

 

[Bob Dylan]

I'm kind of starting to feel bad for you. I guess you didn't hear me the first time, this will never go before an arbitrator. Never. Already decided. Done. And just cause General Lee says doesn't make it so.

Do you really think a historically profitable company with a business plan crafted around the relationships with their employees is going to allow an outside party determine who gets hired and who goes where within the company? Come on man, think!

I know it sucks, but you happen to work for a weak company being acquired by a very strong, profitable and much larger company. You guys ain't the first.

Start using your heads though and try to get on that list with a no furlough clause, otherwise I predict that you'll be out of a job in a couple years when Guadaloupe Airlines is closed down.

Also, I'm sure ALPA is feeding you bad info too because they are going to lose another pilot group to an in-house union. They can't be happy with this and are likely carrying out the tried and true scorched earth policies.

Don't be stupid kid.

 

[Kharma Police]

I'm kind of starting to feel bad for you. I guess you didn't hear me the first time, this will never go before an arbitrator. Never. Already decided. Done. And just cause General Lee says doesn't make it so.

Do you really think a historically profitable company with a business plan crafted around the relationships with their employees is going to allow an outside party determine who gets hired and who goes where within the company? Come on man, think!

I know it sucks, but you happen to work for a weak company being acquired by a very strong, profitable and much larger company. You guys ain't the first.

Start using your heads though and try to get on that list with a no furlough clause, otherwise I predict that you'll be out of a job in a couple years when Guadaloupe Airlines is closed down.

Also, I'm sure ALPA is feeding you bad info too because they are going to lose another pilot group to an in-house union. They can't be happy with this and are likely carrying out the tried and true scorched earth policies.

Don't be stupid kid.

Oh brother, I done with you guy. I'll send you a post card from Dallas when I'm in 737 differences training, just let me know your Corrosion Corner Airline address off of Lejune Road.

 

[Lear70]

Let it go, Kharma... he's just trying to provoke you. There's only about 3 of us who don't have him on our ignore list anymore; I can't because of my Mod status, but I suggest you join the rest of those who do.

Same old FI...

 

[General Lee]

For the love of Christ General,

How many pencils did you eat when your were an abused step child?

14,662 posts with likely not a single constructive opinion.

You have issues dude.

Instead of debating the issue, you always seem to go after the number of posts I have, which really shows you CANNOT debate. I have been on this website for more than 10 years. I enjoy it. You cannot take that away from me. I enjoy aviation debate, and you can't seem to handle it. I have been through an SLI, and I have watched the other most recent one closely. You don't enjoy my comments because you know there could be a hint of truth in there, and that doesn't agree with your SWA Upgrade plan or your own life plans. Sorry, things change, and this merger will take you off your intended course. It just will. Stop fighting it, it will happen with or without you. Enjoy the SLI. Bye now!


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

To an outsider like me, the outcome of this is so obvious. 100% of AT pilots want the merger, 99% of SWA pilots don't want it or couldn't care less. With those numbers, AT pilots aren't going to get anything unless they give something, and that something, in my opinion, is a staple.

You really need to face the facts, SWA doesn't need AT jets or any of the AT pilots. He wants gates and routes. Once AT is acquired, you won't see the same capacity in the market. The capacity will shrink, and that's part of the plan. That's part of the deal with all m/a transactions. And accepting that, you don't really think SWA pilots are going to lose there jobs do you? It will be you guys that will slowly be closed down.

Your only option at this point is a preferential interview. By the time this is over, you guys will have to beg for a staple. Which probably will be declined.

Like I said, pretty easy to see from the outside looking in. No flames here, JMO.

Bobby,

Wall Street and GK want the merger. That's all that matters. SWAPA will be a speed bump in the road to mergerville. Arbitration WILL happen if ALPA and SWAPA don't come up with an agreement on their own, and if it doesn't look fair, AT will go for the arbitration. Tell your sources at the soup kitchen they are WRONG....


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Kharma Police]

Let it go, Kharma... he's just trying to provoke you. There's only about 3 of us who don't have him on our ignore list anymore; I can't because of my Mod status, but I suggest you join the rest of those who do.

Same old FI...

This message is hidden because Bob Dylan is on your ignore list.

Thanks, much better now!

 

[GuppyWN]

I'm a WN pilot and even I think Bob is an idiot. There is a line between being an ***hole and flame baiting. Bob aint got it figured out.

***hole line - "I'm hearing Gary may never combine the lists."
or
Flamebait line - "Back of the line bitches!"

See?
Gup

 

[RIDETHELIGHTING]

Hey gup thanks. Nice to hear. Bull******************** flame bait gets old.