Asa/xjt<---------

[JumpersAway]

Why can't you have all this branded flying done by pilots on the mainline seniority list with current work rules and compensation that exist at the regionals?

Because no matter how you package it up, our bretheren at the major airlines will ALWAYS look down upon the regional pilots as underqualified. They want to retain the interview process to "weed out the bad apples". This will NEVER happen. However, they would gladly arrange a flow down-errrr.......I mean flow agreement with you. How many airlines have tried this and failed. I think ExpressJet has unique experience with this. Correct?

Also, who is going to burn negotiating capital on this? The pilots at the majors don't want to bargain for YOUR job- they simply don't care.

Right now, the faulted logic is that if the regionals negotiate higher pay, the aircraft (70) seaters will flow back to mainline. This scenario couldn't be farther from the truth and reality. As regionals up the pay and the aircraft become more expensive to opperate at the regional level, other regionals are created to fill in the regional feed at a lower operating cost. Look at Compass, GoJet, and Mid Atlantic. These are perfect examples of airlines that were created to "fit the need for cheeper feed".

As much as people disagree and can't stand JoeMerchant, he his right in saying "Brand Scope" is the only true way to halt the "whipsaw".

 

[nimtz]

Man I can't stand stupidity. Where in the hell did you get replacing 3 200s with 700/900 equals one less 200 needed? I clearly stated on a one for one basis. If XJT has 200 E145s outsourced by CAL that is 200 planes worth of flying that is gone and not coming back. Let management use whatever size(51-76) regional aircraft they want on those 200 planes and let mainline pilots take a pay increase for increasing regional revenue. Before you know it profits will be up and the widebody orders will start rolling in.

But if you guys want to keep being short sighted and fighting over mainline pilots flying to College Station and not focusing on increasing routes to Dubai, Shanghai and other places where the yield is high enough to pay the pilot very well, so be it.
Is Lee Monk truly the only one around here that has some sense?

Ask the UAL guys how well it worked allowing RJ's in based on management's promise of more 777's back in the late 90's.

 

[777forever]

Ask the UAL guys how well it worked allowing RJ's in based on management's promise of more 777's back in the late 90's.

1st off, UAL has more 777s and 747s than any other Legacy.2nd, United got an absolutely wonderful pilot contract shortly after that. Than a little thing called 9-11 happened iI would think(sarcasm) hurt United's ability to order widebody aircraft.

 

[Medeco]

You guys dont read very well...

 

[nimtz]

1st off, UAL has more 777s and 747s than any other Legacy.2nd, United got an absolutely wonderful pilot contract shortly after that. Than a little thing called 9-11 happened iI would think(sarcasm) hurt United's ability to order widebody aircraft.

So that makes your argument right? I'm terribly sorry that the vast majority of line pilots continue to find your 'Lee Moak Theory' to be completely bunk. If management wants to fly longhauls they will buy the airplanes. Bending over on scope will not quicken that process...

 

[777forever]

So that makes your argument right? I'm terribly sorry that the vast majority of line pilots continue to find your 'Lee Moak Theory' to be completely bunk. If management wants to fly longhauls they will buy the airplanes. Bending over on scope will not quicken that process...

Ok throw my arguement out the window. Let's get out of lala land utopia where we are debating unrealistic stuff like mainline taking all the flying. Fact is:

THE 700/900, E170, AND E175 WILL NEVER GO TO MAINLINE. THIS IS A RELIGIOUS ISSUE. MANAGEMENT WILL LET YOU STRIKE TO YOUR HEARTS CONTENT AND NOT BUDGE!

IF YOU STILL WON'T ACCEPT REALITY WHEN THE ARBITRAITOR LAUGHS AT THE PILOTS AND RULES IN FAVOR OF UAL/CAL THAT SHOULD BE A WAKE-UP CALL!

ALL OF YOUR LEGACY COMPETITORS HAVE A HIGHER SEAT SCOPE CLAUSE. YOUR COMPETITORS IN EUROPE HAVE E190s AND F100s OUTSOURCED. THE FIGHT TO RECLAIM LOST SCOPE IS FRUITLESS.

REALISTIC PROPOSAL:
UP THE SEAT SCOPE TO 76 BUT FREEZE CURRENT NUMBER OF REGIONAL AIRCRAFT. ALLOW A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF EXTRA RJ TO BE ADDED PER EACH NEW WIDEBODY THAT IS DELIVERED.
EXTRA PAY INCREASE FOR ADDITIONAL REVENUE FROM UPPING SCOPE CLAUSE.

 

[DYLIN]

REALISTIC PROPOSAL:
UP THE SEAT SCOPE TO 76 BUT FREEZE CURRENT NUMBER OF REGIONAL AIRCRAFT. ALLOW A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF EXTRA RJ TO BE ADDED PER EACH NEW WIDEBODY THAT IS DELIVERED.
EXTRA PAY INCREASE FOR ADDITIONAL REVENUE FROM UPPING SCOPE CLAUSE.

If even you think that a reversal of scope would not happen, then why on earth would you propose to loosen scope even more?

That's what you've written here -- in obnoxious capital letters, no less. Like you're yelling at everyone on here, despite your overall inexperience in this industry.

 

[Jetjockey]

Ok throw my arguement out the window. Let's get out of lala land utopia where we are debating unrealistic stuff like mainline taking all the flying. Fact is:

THE 700/900, E170, AND E175 WILL NEVER GO TO MAINLINE. THIS IS A RELIGIOUS ISSUE. MANAGEMENT WILL LET YOU STRIKE TO YOUR HEARTS CONTENT AND NOT BUDGE!

IF YOU STILL WON'T ACCEPT REALITY WHEN THE ARBITRAITOR LAUGHS AT THE PILOTS AND RULES IN FAVOR OF UAL/CAL THAT SHOULD BE A WAKE-UP CALL!

ALL OF YOUR LEGACY COMPETITORS HAVE A HIGHER SEAT SCOPE CLAUSE. YOUR COMPETITORS IN EUROPE HAVE E190s AND F100s OUTSOURCED. THE FIGHT TO RECLAIM LOST SCOPE IS FRUITLESS.

REALISTIC PROPOSAL:
UP THE SEAT SCOPE TO 76 BUT FREEZE CURRENT NUMBER OF REGIONAL AIRCRAFT. ALLOW A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF EXTRA RJ TO BE ADDED PER EACH NEW WIDEBODY THAT IS DELIVERED.
EXTRA PAY INCREASE FOR ADDITIONAL REVENUE FROM UPPING SCOPE CLAUSE.

CRJFOFOREVER is a more appropriate screen name for you. Maybe it's not too late to change it. It's amazing you know so much after so little time in the industry.

 

[COOPERVANE]

CRJFOFOREVER is a more appropriate screen name for you. Maybe it's not too late to change it. It's amazing you know so much after so little time in the industry.

He's got everything figured out.


Weird how nobody else sees his brilliance.............but him.

 

[777forever]

If even you think that a reversal of scope would not happen, then why on earth would you propose to loosen scope even more?

That's what you've written here -- in obnoxious capital letters, no less. Like you're yelling at everyone on here, despite your overall inexperience in this industry.

Loosening scope? I'm not suggesting adding the cseries or any other large RJ. I'm suggesting that UAL/CAL pilots will have to allow management to match their competitor's regional aircraft sizes. What I'm proposing includes only swaps of smaller 50 seaters for larger ones. There is no net gain of aircraft.

There's no need for huge about of experience here. It's call understanding contract negotiations, being able to analyze, and reason. A little common sense helps too. Talk to any one with contract neg experience and ask there opinion. Give Lee Mook a ring or toss him an email. Or better yet, go take a business class for too.

If you folks think UAL/CAL will keep CAL scope or reduce it, AND secure a decent pay raise, I would love some of that Ganja you smoking

 

[nimtz]

Loosening scope? I'm not suggesting adding the cseries or any other large RJ. I'm suggesting that UAL/CAL pilots will have to allow management to match their competitor's regional aircraft sizes. What I'm proposing includes only swaps of smaller 50 seaters for larger ones. There is no net gain of aircraft.

There's no need for huge about of experience here. It's call understanding contract negotiations, being able to analyze, and reason. A little common sense helps too. Talk to any one with contract neg experience and ask there opinion. Give Lee Mook a ring or toss him an email. Or better yet, go take a business class for too.

If you folks think UAL/CAL will keep CAL scope or reduce it, AND secure a decent pay raise, I would love some of that Ganja you smoking

You lecture me like a student about negotiation yet you lay out the exact case that you would cave for?!? Thanks for the advise neophyte, but just like Obama once said; "I got this"...

 

[COOPERVANE]

You lecture me like a student about negotiation yet you lay out the exact case that you would cave for?!? Thanks for the advise neophyte, but just like Obama once said; "I got this"...

Yeah man.....take a class!!! You shoulda gone to riddle....you'd know how this airline stuff works.

 

[rumorhasit]

No smokin' at all... I heard it from an XJT guy at Hoot County late one night...

Growths.... now that's something we got!!!!

Sooo what yor saying is your boyfriend is a grower not a shower!!!!

 

[Plainsman]

Well its nice to know scheduling still sucks dunkey dung!

 

[Abernathy]

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