SWA/Airtran pilot integration thoughts, what will the new list look like?

[Lear70]

1. We are running under 11 pilots per airplane. You guys are over 12. In other words - we could be over staffed.

No, we're not. It looks that way on paper, but we have a much higher level of pilots than most airlines out on mil leave or medical leave that don't show up on that fleet-to-seniority list analysis.

2. The new FAA rest rules aren't going to help. They are going to hurt. How many pilots per day do you need when you can now fly 10 hour turns?

They were going to help us for the way our company flies. Like I said, wasn't sure how it would work with your work rules.

The rest? Who knows... I just fly planes. And it appears my crystal ball is starting to work again... we were making bets on this last year, weren't we? Who was supposed to buy me that beer? I forgot, gotta go back and re-read the threads...

 

[GuppyWN]

Hey man I'll buy you a beer. I'm just trying to replace speculation and assumptions with facts.

Gup

 

[Lear70]

Hey man I'll buy you a beer. I'm just trying to replace speculation and assumptions with facts.

Gup

Heh heh... can't argue with you there.

That's why our pilot group is urging our MEC not to back down from the table with OUR OWN negotiations with AirTran management on our new contract. The sooner we tie up our own contract problems, the better, and it will then be a more realistic playing field to analyze career expectations comparatively with Southwest pilots.

Unfortunately, we don't really have a choice. If we back off negotiations, we do ourselves a disservice by entering SLI negotiations from a weaker negotiating perspective, not to mention our pilots are COMPLETELY uninterested in another year or TWO of this pay scale and work rules.

Like I said, this whole thing is very, very complicated.

Look forward to having that beer with you!

 

[DougCorp-9]

Southwest follks,

What was your increase in TFP for 2009 and 2010. I am looking at your contract and it says those years were variable. Have there been any other adjustments to the TFP rates? Could someone post or PM me the current TFP rates.

Thanks

 

[GuppyWN]

The pay rates are tied to profitability. Q3 numbers come out the 3rd week of October. There is some speculation we could get the full 2% rate increase.

Gup

 

[DougCorp-9]

What did you get in 2009?

 

[GuppyWN]

What did you get in 2009?

I think you're trying to box me in here but I'll play.

Our contract runs from 2006-2011. We didn't ink the deal until fall 2009. We got a raise w/full retro pay on DOR. That left us with 2009 and 2010. Those 2 years were up to 2% raises based on profitability. It looks like we will get SOME raise based on numbers closing on September 30.

So if we kick butt we will be making 4% more next year than we are now. If we don't make targets we will be stuck at $203/hr for 12 year captains.

Gup

 

[StopNTSing]

StopNTSing and Tripower455, I was talking about When I upgraded in around 8-9 years I would expect to make 275K/yr as a CA. I don't think we would have a pay freeze for 8 years. I believe the average CA pay currently is about 240-250K/yr.

Gotcha. Let's hope the rates in the later years produce at least that kind of pay. Inflation isn't staying in check much longer, I fear.

 

[maru657]

Much here has been said about a windfall for SouthWest but the other consideration is that SouthWest has to grow in order to survive.

 

[DougCorp-9]

I think you're trying to box me in here but I'll play.

Our contract runs from 2006-2011. We didn't ink the deal until fall 2009. We got a raise w/full retro pay on DOR. That left us with 2009 and 2010. Those 2 years were up to 2% raises based on profitability. It looks like we will get SOME raise based on numbers closing on September 30.

So if we kick butt we will be making 4% more next year than we are now. If we don't make targets we will be stuck at $203/hr for 12 year captains.

Gup

Not trying to box you in.

Just trying to figure out current TFP. That's what matters in the end right?

 

[GuppyWN]

OK..... whew!

Translated from "trips" to hourly it is $203 and could be as high as $211. Is that more than $153?

Gup

 

[DougCorp-9]

Just a bit.

 

[DougCorp-9]

Is all SWA training done in DAL? Do you guys do AQP? And what is this "Lance Captain" deal?

Thanks

 

[kwick]

No, SWA gets growth, SWA pilots get integrated into a larger company with slowed growth, taking longer to upgrade. So what do SWA pilots get again?

Better call the SW BOD and tell them this merger is not in the SW pilot's
best interests.


Maybe, It's the stockholders interests that have a little higher priority.

 

[StopNTSing]

Better call the SW BOD and tell them this merger is not in the SW pilot's
best interests.


Maybe, It's the stockholders interests that have a little higher priority.

Agreed, but I think he's just pointing out who is getting the windfall as we head into SLI negotiations.

 

[StopNTSing]

Is all SWA training done in DAL?

Yes

Do you guys do AQP?

Mostly

And what is this "Lance Captain" deal?

A likely casualty of our next Sect 6. They are captain-qualified FOs. I'm guessing the program will be effectively gone by the time SOC rolls around.

 

[waveflyer]

Why do you think growth will "slow" bc of this?

First, how can growth be slower than the no growth we've had in the last few years?
A few points-
AT is growing now
Atlanta is not like any city we've added in a long time-
Will it surprise you that adding LGA has increased business travel on the OAK-LAX route? Atl is not Greensboro or charleston:
FORTUNE magazine in 2010 found that Atlanta has the 4th most Fortune 500 companies of any US city with 14 firms on the list
FORTUNE magazine named Atlanta in top 10 of cities worldwide with the most Global 500 Headquarters in 2009
Atlanta ranked as the 2nd cheapest major U.S. city in which to do business, according to KPMG’s 2010 Competitive Alternatives Study
Entrepreneur Magazine ranked Atlanta the 7th-best Start-Up City in America, calling Atlanta the "Grower" city, in its 2009 study
Forbes named Atlanta the #1 Best Place for Business and Careers in its March 2009 study

Simply, it's been the gaping hole in our route structure for some time- and one that keeps many business travelers away from us.
This morning we announced looking for a new reservation system to handle all the near international-
AT is the one company really holding it's own competing with us- it'sa good thing to join up with that competition- it's like adding chris bosh to the d wade and Lebron show. They can't get cocky and aren't the biggest star in the mix-(ESP w/ how their mgmt has been treating them) but they're a class group if pilots who's business adds a lot to ours.

Call me naive, but it's my opinion that there is a lot of upside to this merger that will lead to a lot more growth for all involved-
You may say that we should have grown organically in Atlanta- I don't think that recognizes the realities of Atlanta physically and politically.
JMO-

 

[boomlrd]

Man can you just imagine if those Midwest pilots wouldn't have fought against AirTran buying them? Where would they be now? Not on the street.

As in Dave Chappelle: "When keeping it real goes wrong"

 

[islandhoper]

I'd venture to guess the reactions for the majority of FO's at SWA and the majority of FO's at AT were polar opposites. The main reason for this are career expectations. I am a 3.5ish yr FO at SW. I am on track to make $145K this year. This is average for my sonority. I will get a $10.00/trip increase for next year so I should make around 155-160K. I am a commuter so I do not make the extra $ like the guys who live in base. We have FO's making over 200K and CA's making over 400K, but again I am talking averages. Based on my career expectation snapshot yesterday I planned to upgrade in about 8-10 yrs (in a down economy and slow to no growth mode). As a topped out FO I plan to make around 180K/yr. When I upgrade to CA it will be 275K/yr. At SW we get a minimum of 15 days off per month and I almost never have less than 17. I know the future can change at any moment but this is an honest future expectation. Based on pay and benefits of AT as posted on APC and posts from AT pilots in the past, there is no gain for me as a SW pilot in terms of pay, contract, an benifits. Now, I didn't say there was no benefit at all. There will be more destinations, and eliminate a competitor. I also think it will be good for SW if done properly. There are many great pilots over there as well who I would enjoy working with.
But the main point I want to make is for AT pilots to understand my point of view. I am not in their shoes but I know enough about their situation and have talked to many AT pilots to get an idea. So if you see some SW guys talking about "fair and equitable", this is where we are coming from.

Are you sure about your numbers Mr. Chub? My LUV contacts don't seem to agree... Or were you talking about your wishes more than your expectations? Did you factor in the previous SW statement of no growth during 2010 and 2011? Just curious, 'cause your numbers are way higher than anything I have ever heard of before for a WN "average".

 

[Mr Chub]

My numbers are correct from what I see on line. My pay rate is $99.02 TFP (equal to $108/hr as indicated on APC). The average pilot gets 108-110 TFP/month. This equates to $130,706.00 for the year. This summer was good for reroutes and move ups (where you are paid time and a half), so I was involved with some of that which put me over 110/tfp in the summer. I wasn't the only pilot who made more $ this summer. The $180K/yr as a senior FO is the earnings I can expect five or so years from now with the projected pay increases from longevity and our contract. If you feel more comfortable by moving those numbers down 5K, that would still be fairly accurate, but I still stand by my post in that is what I make and probably will make without much extra effort by gaming my schedule. No VJA for me...tooo junior.