US Airways Pilot/FA Recall

[Cowboy75]

I have to quote this twice since it is so nail on the head west mentality. Just read it . It says NIC= only some west upgrades. DOH=east upgrades only......exactly....it is called date of hire. See my new thread.

I think you just got your first response on the new thread.

 

[WickedPissa]

I think you just got your first response on the new thread.

Thanks for the notification. Sounded like an American guy (I have no idea where he/she works) saying "your" merger and if that happened we will staple your a$$es . So why the smiley face?

 

[Bringupthebird]

Put in your dues with an airline you plan on spending the rest of your career with, you have expectations. That is what most East guys did/do. Back in 80'/90's/mid 2000's, USAir was a final goal. Guys I know used the west as an alternative (a.k.a. stepping stone) to the majors until their number was called to the majors. That is honest. An East 17 year guy sure as %$# deserves DOH.

Thanks for the history lesson, junior. Problem is, USAirways went bye bye and so did their expectations. It's LCC, which is a combination of two airlines, not one grafted into the corpse of another.

"Full pay to the last day". Problem is, you got neither.

 

[Cowboy75]

Thanks for the notification. Sounded like an American guy (I have no idea where he/she works) saying "your" merger and if that happened we will staple your a$$es . So why the smiley face?

Just amused, that's all. I like bird's comment from the other thread: No traction here. I'm not concerned about American after our experience with us air. At this point I would have preferred Aeroflot.

 

[Dornier 335]

If the bid vacancy numbers are true then there are about 60 more vacancies in the coming months. Even if every east furlough came back, this would bring em all back and then some. Hopefully it works out this way.

Once all east furloughes who want to return do so. If there's any west pilots still on furlough then any slots that open up east must be offered to them first..

Uh, there are 0 retirements for the next 2 years. I know there is a thread of some impressive girth on here about that.

So, is there any truth about those additional 60 vacancies coming up? How many pilots total were on furlough? Can the company call the people who are are/were waiting for their class date in '08 if every pilot currently furloughed bypasses (east/west)?

 

[JetMonkey]

Put in your dues with an airline you plan on spending the rest of your career with, you have expectations. That is what most East guys did/do. Back in 80'/90's/mid 2000's, USAir was a final goal. Guys I know used the west as an alternative (a.k.a. stepping stone) to the majors until their number was called to the majors. That is honest. An East 17 year guy sure as %$# deserves DOH.

I didn't.. But yet I still got the shaft.. So your 17 year east guy may deserve DOH like u say. But NOT at the expense of me.

 

[Tweaker]

Dornier - Sorry, but I would wager that there is very little chance of any new employee numbers being issued (to people in your situation) until all are recalled and given an ultimatum of return/resign.

I have no idea, I just don't want you to have false hope. Have you been given encouragement from the Co? I doubt any of it is binding on them.

Keep your head up, mate!

 

[Guppiedriver]

..........................

 

[get2flyin]

Put in your dues with an airline you plan on spending the rest of your career with, you have expectations. That is what most East guys did/do. Back in 80'/90's/mid 2000's, USAir was a final goal. Guys I know used the west as an alternative (a.k.a. stepping stone) to the majors until their number was called to the majors. That is honest. An East 17 year guy sure as %$# deserves DOH.

WP. I can tell you are furloughed from the East side because in the time you spent there you certainly picked up all the East-centric trash-talk. Back in the 80's through the early 00's, other airlines like TWA were ALSO considered "final goals". Ask ANY TWA pilot how his expectations have played out. It sucks something fierce but here is the harsh reality, "Nothing is assured in this career". At one time guys DID use AWA as a stepping stone to get to places like United and USAir. How would you say that worked out for them? Do they deserve some kind of redemption at someone else's expense because their airline was poorly managed or the economy went South?

Believe me, when guys came to AWA in the mid 2000's, it was not as a stepping stone. The upgrade time then was 7 years and predicted to go to 5 years (or less) to meet growth projections that were backed up by new aircraft orders. Parker was in talks with the city of Charlotte about filling the void that was about to be created by the imminent liquidation of the city's largest air carrier. Post merger, just about everything changed. Hiring stopped. Upgrades stopped. Expansion stopped. Nobody on the West was gunning to push an East pilot out of a slot and they agreed to a "process" of integration. The East pilots did the same but now they seem to think they were tricked somehow. Look at the facts, once you get passed the initial 500+ East pilots that were put on the top of the list to account for wide bodies, the Nic List basically goes 2 East pilots for 1 West pilot. Don't buy into this, "the West steals all the upgrades" crap. As far as the guys below O'Dell, how can you seriously believe a guy who wasn't even an active pilot at the airline should be able to come back after working elsewhere for *YEARS* and have enough seniority to be a Captain on the West? Regardless of your opinion of DOH, how is that remotely logical?

Nobody on the West buys into the "Conditions and Restrictions" idea because the West pilots understand the industry is fluid. For example, what if we DID merge with another airline? What happens to the West pilots then? The *new* lists would be merged and the C&Rs would be gone. Phoenix would be fair game. If you old pals tell you anything else, they are lying to you.

Beyond that, the bottom line is this: The list has already been decided. Even if it was open to renegotiation (*which it's not*), who would represent the West pilot's interest? Nobody, Chief, because in the big picture, thanks to USAPA becoming our bargaining agent, there is no longer any East and West. We are one big happy family. AOL is nothing more than a coalition of West pilots looking out for their own interests because it's damn sure obvious that USAPA was formed specifically to do the opposite. With that said, AOL is not a legal bargaining agent and they cannot act as a West representative in that capacity. So who? Ask yourself this, if we merged with American tomorrow, would you agree to disband USAPA and simply trust APA to look out for you because there are more AA pilots then USAir pilots?

In response to your final comment, actually "an East 17 year guy sure as %$# deserves exactly what his" bidding position gives him. If that equates to reserve FO on the Airbus, then so be it.

 

[WickedPissa]

WP. I can tell you are furloughed from the East side because in the time you spent there you certainly picked up all the East-centric trash-talk. Back in the 80's through the early 00's, other airlines like TWA were ALSO considered "final goals". Ask ANY TWA pilot how his expectations have played out. It sucks something fierce but here is the harsh reality, "Nothing is assured in this career". At one time guys DID use AWA as a stepping stone to get to places like United and USAir. How would you say that worked out for them? Do they deserve some kind of redemption at someone else's expense because their airline was poorly managed or the economy went South?

Believe me, when guys came to AWA in the mid 2000's, it was not as a stepping stone. The upgrade time then was 7 years and predicted to go to 5 years (or less) to meet growth projections that were backed up by new aircraft orders. Parker was in talks with the city of Charlotte about filling the void that was about to be created by the imminent liquidation of the city's largest air carrier. Post merger, just about everything changed. Hiring stopped. Upgrades stopped. Expansion stopped. Nobody on the West was gunning to push an East pilot out of a slot and they agreed to a "process" of integration. The East pilots did the same but now they seem to think they were tricked somehow. Look at the facts, once you get passed the initial 500+ East pilots that were put on the top of the list to account for wide bodies, the Nic List basically goes 2 East pilots for 1 West pilot. Don't buy into this, "the West steals all the upgrades" crap. As far as the guys below O'Dell, how can you seriously believe a guy who wasn't even an active pilot at the airline should be able to come back after working elsewhere for *YEARS* and have enough seniority to be a Captain on the West? Regardless of your opinion of DOH, how is that remotely logical?

Nobody on the West buys into the "Conditions and Restrictions" idea because the West pilots understand the industry is fluid. For example, what if we DID merge with another airline? What happens to the West pilots then? The *new* lists would be merged and the C&Rs would be gone. Phoenix would be fair game. If you old pals tell you anything else, they are lying to you.

Beyond that, the bottom line is this: The list has already been decided. Even if it was open to renegotiation (*which it's not*), who would represent the West pilot's interest? Nobody, Chief, because in the big picture, thanks to USAPA becoming our bargaining agent, there is no longer any East and West. We are one big happy family. AOL is nothing more than a coalition of West pilots looking out for their own interests because it's damn sure obvious that USAPA was formed specifically to do the opposite. With that said, AOL is not a legal bargaining agent and they cannot act as a West representative in that capacity. So who? Ask yourself this, if we merged with American tomorrow, would you agree to disband USAPA and simply trust APA to look out for you because there are more AA pilots then USAir pilots?

In response to your final comment, actually "an East 17 year guy sure as %$# deserves exactly what his" bidding position gives him. If that equates to reserve FO on the Airbus, then so be it.

Fair views/opinions without name calling. I went on here a couple weeks ago for recall info. Got sucked into the east-west thing. I have to quit.

One thing though, my views weren't formed in a short time flying with east guys. My east roots go back to the 60's. See ya for a while.

 

[miaboeingcapt]

Guys, please take your east vs west fight to your own thread! This is a positive thread that many of us have been looking forward to and have had enough negativity in our lives that past couple of years. There is plenty of places on these forums for all of you to voice your opinions let not do it here! Thanks! :beer:

 

[reepicheep]

When the merger happened in 2005 the 17-year east guy was a reserve narrowbody F/O at the bottom of the list. A newhire position. Which sucks but says a lot about usair. Nic got it exactly right.

 

[Hpilot]

Put in your dues with an airline you plan on spending the rest of your career with, you have expectations. That is what most East guys did/do. Back in 80'/90's/mid 2000's, USAir was a final goal. Guys I know used the west as an alternative (a.k.a. stepping stone) to the majors until their number was called to the majors. That is honest. An East 17 year guy sure as %$# deserves DOH.

What are you smokin? There was one guy in my class that was from US Airways & two in a following class. They were not furloughed. They left US Airways you dumb D-bag. Final goal, ha ha ha. Maybe in the 80's.

 

[Dornier 335]

Dornier - Sorry, but I would wager that there is very little chance of any new employee numbers being issued (to people in your situation) until all are recalled and given an ultimatum of return/resign.

I have no idea, I just don't want you to have false hope. Have you been given encouragement from the Co? I doubt any of it is binding on them.

Keep your head up, mate!

Tweaker, thanks man! According to the co my welcome letter is still valid. Still playing the waiting game, but am glad to see you guys returning. I hope it won't be too long until I can stop looking into the sky and see others fly.

 

[JAB31]

Got the certified letter today...have to pick it tomorrow. I assume they are still looking for guys in the 9/6 class? I sit in the mid-30's for recall. Look like a fair amount of bypassing!?

 

[elguapo9]

Got the certified letter today...have to pick it tomorrow. I assume they are still looking for guys in the 9/6 class? I sit in the mid-30's for recall. Look like a fair amount of bypassing!?

If you are in the mid 30's wouldn't you expect to get a letter regardless of the number of bypasses? Not trying to be a smart ass, just trying to figure it out.

 

[JAB31]

If you are in the mid 30's wouldn't you expect to get a letter regardless of the number of bypasses? Not trying to be a smart ass, just trying to figure it out.

Exactly, I knew some guys got the second certified letter last week and some got it this week. Was curious about why it was staggered like that. I guess my point is I have no clue how how it all works! No big deal, was just curious how many were bypassing.

 

[LaGarbage Man]

If you are in the mid 30's wouldn't you expect to get a letter regardless of the number of bypasses? Not trying to be a smart ass, just trying to figure it out.

Its the second letter that counts. Company sent out 40 letters that just say we are going to recall soon in the area of your seniority. The second certified letter is the one that counts. This is the one that starts the 7 day clock to accept or bypass. This is also the one that they are using to staff the up coming class dates. Company sent out 25 certified letters to staff a class of 20 obviously expecting some bypasses. Evidently they got a few more than 5 bypasses and have now sent out a second round of certified letters to fill the class. I know that it has been some welcome news to some of my classmates as they did not quite make the first round but got picked up with the second batch. That is why a guy/girl sitting in the mid thirties is looking for a letter. Its the second letter he is talking about.

 

[zymotic]

Exactly, I knew some guys got the second certified letter last week and some got it this week. Was curious about why it was staggered like that. I guess my point is I have no clue how how it all works! No big deal, was just curious how many were bypassing.

I don't remember the first letter being a certified one. Therefore if you got a notice there is a certified letter waiting for you then it must be a recall offer to the September 6 class. I don't think they have sent out letters for a second class yet.

 

[WickedPissa]

I don't remember the first letter being a certified one. Therefore if you got a notice there is a certified letter waiting for you then it must be a recall offer to the September 6 class. I don't think they have sent out letters for a second class yet.

Right. All first letters were not certified. Then they sent 25 certified ones for Sept 6 (only 20 could make the cut). Like Garbage said, more than 5 people declined so they sent out a handful more certified letters to fill Sept 6.