Dal/jal

[Superpilot92]

Compass airlines is a joke. It's nothing more than an airline created via a BK, "gun to our heads" contract. For most pilots at Delta, flowing back is not an option because of the pathetic pay that ALPA negotiated for them. A flow-up to Delta for Compass pilots should involve a four-phase interview and a probationary period just like it was for every new-hire who was fNWA or fDAL.

I am sure Compass has some good people, nonetheless, hiring at Delta should be focused on hiring the best pilots, not just a bunch of pilots who where willing to fly OUR jets at a fraction of the price.

with all due respect, those planes should have been "OURS" but they werent and thus someone was going to fly them. The majority of CPZ pilots are furloughed from other big airlines or high time regional guys who were interviewed by NWA to get the job at CPZ. Their interview was very similar to what we did except instead of the sim eval in the 747-200 they flew the 727 sim. I understand that you seem to hold a grudge against the CPZ pilots for "taking" NWA flying but due to the circumstances, the only taking was done by NWA mgmt. The planes should have been put on our ticket but they werent and that ship has sailed. We should be fighting to get it all back but for whatever reason our "leadership" isnt concerned with recapturing that flying. Lets hope that they are concerened with protecting OUR flying going forward.

 

[formerdal]

.
That crew compliment sounds about right if we are closer towards 30 jets.

Delta crews the beyond 12 hour aircraft with just over 30 pilots per airframe, so at 90 crews (360ish pilots) that would equate to 10 or 11 airframes.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Compass airlines is a joke. It's nothing more than an airline created via a BK, "gun to our heads" contract. For most pilots at Delta, flowing back is not an option because of the pathetic pay that ALPA negotiated for them. A flow-up to Delta for Compass pilots should involve a four-phase interview and a probationary period just like it was for every new-hire who was fNWA or fDAL.

I am sure Compass has some good people, nonetheless, hiring at Delta should be focused on hiring the best pilots, not just a bunch of pilots who where willing to fly OUR jets at a fraction of the price.

Well that is inflammatory. The CPS and Mesaba flows are part of our PWA as NWA LOA 2006-10 and 12. It dictates that they flow off probation. Do not like it you have to either dump it or work with the companies and unions to amend it.

As for the CPS pilots, tell that to the AMR, TWA, Champion, ATA and others that are there because of the flow. 20 year old pilots willing to work for slave labor? Not so much.
For many it was the only option at the time.

Just sayin....

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Delta crews the beyond 12 hour aircraft with just over 30 pilots per airframe, so at 90 crews (360ish pilots) that would equate to 10 or 11 airframes.

Correct, and I meant to correct that but ran out of time.

FWIW, I am hearing 30 per month for some time. Deets shortly.

 

[1080P]

Correct, and I meant to correct that but ran out of time.

FWIW, I am hearing 30 per month for some time. Deets shortly.

Are you saying that your about to start hiring 30 per month, or training 30 per month for the 74???
Thanks

 

[ACL65PILOT]

I am not a person that can tell you that sort of thing. What I can tell you that all signs are pointing towards a need for pilots.
If I were to guess I would say maybe a few recalls this summer, then CPS and off the street this fall. Maybe even later in the year or early next. Just depends on a few tings that are not public yet. (just a guess of course)

 

[FBN0223]

Well that is inflammatory. The CPS and Mesaba flows are part of our PWA as NWA LOA 2006-10 and 12. It dictates that they flow off probation. Do not like it you have to either dump it or work with the companies and unions to amend it.

As for the CPS pilots, tell that to the AMR, TWA, Champion, ATA and others that are there because of the flow. 20 year old pilots willing to work for slave labor? Not so much.
For many it was the only option at the time.

Just sayin....

ACL and Super

Our Captain positions were negotiated away to Compass and Mesaba in the form of the EMB175 and CRJ-whatever. This should piss you off. Yeah, that ship has sailed but she's sailing back for more.

So we've given the Compass pilots OUR captain seats and the contractual flow-up to "Big D." What's in the deal for us as junior DAL pilots? A flow down to Compass? Another joke!!! Consider that only 150 DAL pilots would flow down to the left seat of the Embryo175 and 65k/year. FOs welcome to the soup line, food stamps and 25k/year.

Gotta love how we gave away the farm and patched up the sick deal with a flow agreement that doesn't benefit Delta pilots.

So what's next? Are we going to negotiate away the 100-seat flying as well and buy into the same ole song and dance that "it's ok guys, because we have a flow agreement in place."

Inflammatory? Hardly!!!

 

[Superpilot92]

ACL and Super

Our Captain positions were negotiated away to Compass and Mesaba in the form of the EMB175 and CRJ-whatever. This should piss you off. Yeah, that ship has sailed but she's sailing back for more.

So we've given the Compass pilots OUR captain seats and the contractual flow-up to "Big D." What's in the deal for us as junior DAL pilots? A flow down to Compass? Another joke!!! Consider that only 150 DAL pilots would flow down to the left seat of the Embryo175 and 65k/year. FOs welcome to the soup line, food stamps and 25k/year.

Gotta love how we gave away the farm and patched up the sick deal with a flow agreement that doesn't benefit Delta pilots.

So what's next? Are we going to negotiate away the 100-seat flying as well and buy into the same ole song and dance that "it's ok guys, because we have a flow agreement in place."

Inflammatory? Hardly!!!

Neither ACL or I are arguing that they should be our seats. They point I was trying to make is that we shouldnt take that out on the Pilots, especially considering that the majority of them want EXACTLY what we do. They want the flying on the DAL ticket as well and have voiced that as well. The E175s going to compass has nothing to do with the Pilots that fly there currently. Those planes were let go, via gun to head, and they were going to fly with other pilots. I'm glad that those guys that are flying there are primarily highly experienced and have common goals with us. Its our MEC thats trying to push them away, not really the CPZ pilots.

Bottom line is we are in agreement over the E175s should be our seats but we shouldnt be gunning for the CPZ pilots because we opened the door. Its our job to keep the door shut and locked from this point forward. Like ACL said, CPZ isnt going to be flowing up a bunch of 500 wonders, we're talking about a group of highly qualified pilots. We should be working together to recapture that flying not fighting them imho. I agree 100% that we should make sure that SCOPE is LOCKED down NOW and I've emailed my reps about this on a number of occasions. At a minimum we need a permanent CAP on the the current number RJ's.

 

[flap operator]

FWIW - the pilots that Mesaba has contributed and will contribute to the flow are also highly experienced and qualified individuals. The ones that would be the next to flow have in excess of 10-15 years of seniority.

Flowback? Nothing for DL pilots? Just a job that's all. I'd value that as rather a huge benefit for all JR DL pilots. It sure beats an 8 year furlough and a kick the face.

 

[FBN0223]

Flowback? Nothing for DL pilots? Just a job that's all. I'd value that as rather a huge benefit for all JR DL pilots. It sure beats an 8 year furlough and a kick the face.

Now we're setting the bar pretty low aren't we? Sorry, flowing back to a job that was mine in the first place isn't much of a consolation prize, nor is taking a 30% paycut so that NWA could use MY money to buy EMB175s for non-seniority list pilots to fly.

 

[flap operator]

Now we're setting the bar pretty low aren't we? Sorry, flowing back to a job that was mine in the first place isn't much of a consolation prize, nor is taking a 30% paycut so that NWA could use MY money to buy EMB175s for non-seniority list pilots to fly.

Would you rather it be all one sided allowing the CP and XJ pilots to reap all the benefits? What's happened in the past is DONE. Can't change it one bit. If you wish to dwell and wallow in the past, fine. But it won't achieve anything. MY whole point is that those that will flow from either company aren't going to be a bunch of snot nosed punks that are new to this gig. And, the upside to the DL pilot is that there is job protection. Though it may be at a regional, again, it's a job and better than the unemployment line. Also, at least it's better than 1st year pay as an FO. I'm obviously not going to change your mind, nor is that my intent, so it is, what it is. I hope you're at least channeling this negative energy to make the future better for you and your fellow pilots at the new Delta.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

A 65K a year job may not be perfect, but when I was a LCA sitting at my regional I was sitting with DAL furloughs making 15K a year in the right seat of an RJ. Trust me there are worse things than a CA at CPS.

 

[Ridgeback]

Now we're setting the bar pretty low aren't we? Sorry, flowing back to a job that was mine in the first place isn't much of a consolation prize, nor is taking a 30% paycut so that NWA could use MY money to buy EMB175s for non-seniority list pilots to fly.

Have you already forgot that if Delta furloughed then seats would have had to be removed from the RJ's you hate so much? I would argue they may have protected Delta jobs the last three years more than you think?

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Ridge, I agree. It added a cost that was very hard to sharp shoot. It added 12 months to breakeven projections for furloughs.

Also, lest we all forget, CPS was formed with a gun to your head, and you got an awesome flow out of it. In the end it stinks the flying is not here, but at least if mainline shrinks you will be in those seats. I agree it is far from perfect, but better that many have done.

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

Have you already forgot that if Delta furloughed then seats would have had to be removed from the RJ's you hate so much? I would argue they may have protected Delta jobs the last three years more than you think?

Between what BOTH our NWA guys and DAL guys got with their guns to their heads in bankruptcy (the seat pullouts for DAL and CPS for NWA), we didn't furlough this past year.

Both of those protections were huge reasons as to why we didn't furlough.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Lets go one step further. It was because of this MEC that those LOA's stayed. Give credit where credit is due.

 

[skystud25]

for most pilots at delta, flowing back is not an option because of the pathetic pay that alpa negotiated for them. A flow-up to delta for compass pilots should involve a four-phase interview and a probationary period just like it was for every new-hire who was fnwa or fdal.

I am sure compass has some good people, nonetheless, hiring at delta should be focused on hiring the best pilots, not just a bunch of pilots who where willing to fly our jets at a fraction of the price.

---------
+1

 

[BigShow]

Hey... this thread is about JAL. Keep the rumors coming!!!

 

[lakemead1]

Hey... this thread is about JAL. Keep the rumors coming!!!

Agreed!

 

[FBN0223]

http://mdn.mainichi.jp/mdnnews/news/20100128p2a00m0na005000c.html

JAL dumps alliance with American Airlines in favor of Delta, SkyTeam

Japan Airlines (JAL) decided Wednesday to dump its partnership with American Airlines and its Oneworld alliance in favor of Delta and the SkyTeam group of carriers.

American together with a private equity firm had offered to invest $1.4 billion in JAL and strengthen cooperation between the two airlines, but JAL judged an alliance with Delta -- the world's largest airline -- would produce greater benefits.

The partnership with Delta will be officially announced by new JAL Chairman Kazuo Inamori on Monday.

To solidify the new alliance, JAL intends to apply to the Japanese and U.S. governments for antitrust immunity. The airline is also examining strengthening its international network with new routes from Narita International Airport to Detroit -- the hub for Northwest Airlines, acquired by Delta last year -- and from Haneda Airport to Amsterdam's Schiphol, SkyTeam partner KLM's home airport.

Delta and JAL cover many of the same routes, allowing the two airlines to better efficiency through schedule and fare collaboration. According to estimates by the state-backed Enterprise Turnaround Initiative Corp. of Japan (ETIC) -- overseeing JAL's restructuring process -- if JAL obtains antitrust immunity, the benefits of the Delta partnership could rise to some 17.2 billion yen. Even if the JAL-Delta deal does not receive immunity, the new partnership will result in benefits of around 9.2 billion yen -- still a significant jump from the 5.4 billion yen realized through the alliance with American.

Delta had previously offered a total $1.02 billion in financial support to JAL, including $500 million in new investment. As the leader in rebuilding the airline, however, ETIC apparently inclined to the belief that foreign financing was unnecessary for recovery, and elected to restrict any involvement with Delta to business collaboration.

Click here for the original Japanese story

(Mainichi Japan) January 28, 2010