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twobits said:
So it's a Compass pilot's 'dream come true', or worst nightmare depending on the situatiion...... therefore, nobody should be pissed if Compass pilots join the DAL list, because they also will be the first to furlough.

The 9's will be gone soon. Tell me another airline in the civilized world that flies these things? New airplanes are coming.... but they are replacement aircraft. JAL is great for Delta, but bad for Delta pilots, IMHO. It's basically what we don't want to happen in the US, but all of a sudden we are giddy at the prospect of going into another country and doing what we should fear the most. How would you like it if Virgin owned VA, and US Air was bought by Air Asia?
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The DC9-30s and -40s will be gone by OCT I believe, with the -50 series staying for a few more years.

Also, we are Japan's third airline. Northwest ORIENT had the rights from LONG AGO. ANA, JAL, and JAS (which merged into JAL and was mainly a domestic airline) were the locals, but now there are two locals, with us now being the third largest. It is not like we are just coming in there and taking over, like Aeromexico coming to the USA and taking over domestic flights here. It just isn't like that. You can fear it all you want, but that isn't the case. Northwest ORIENT had it's name for a reason, rights from Japan. And, The WSJ Online has an article out now that states Tokyo (the GOV'T) favors Delta over AMR for a new alliance partner. That must mean something. We will see......?


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
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2 Billion is quite a bit for Delta to hold up to. I mean, that's how much total cash Delta had on hand in Bankruptcy..... and that wasn't so long ago.

Industry power will get stronger no matter how this plays out. Did you ever read that book I mentioned a few months ago, General?

I hope Delta makes the deal with JAL - but I'm pretty sure just a few codeshares out of Japan will result - not in favor of Delta pilots IMHO.
 
This is more about cash flow and not about us or AMR saving JAL. They have others that are willing to do that.
 
General Lee said:
A possible furlough of our bottom 300 as you say would cause havoc at Compass, since most of their pilots would be bumped or furloughed themselves. Think of all the extra costs for typing DL guys on the E175, and bumping current Compass Capts to FO, and then watching their FOs hit the streets. If they went over that number (300), most of the current Compass guys could hit the streets, and bringing them back in under 2 years would cost the company even more in training costs. I don't see it happening on a seasonal basis at all. I am glad you have some insight it seems on the 4th floor, but I still don't see short term furloughs with the resulting Compass nightmare that would follow. The shear threat of that cost and operational chaos that would follow has turned out to be a great "no furlough clause", at least better than the original one....


Bye Bye--General Lee
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And yet, us F-NWA types have been dogged for caving to this. Oh well.
 
Right, it's about the cash flow..... 2 Billion is better than 1 Billion in the bank today...... they need CASH right now. Hey JAL, do you want to join an alliance with 2 asian carriers already there, or stay in an alliance that only has one other asian carrier? I can make a proforma statement today that says airline XYZ is going to benefit JAL more with cash flow, do you think they will pick my offer over theirs? Not without a few Billion to go with it!

Don't get tunnel vision over JAL/DAL..... and don't for a second think it will not be a sacrifice of DAL jobs. I want the best for Delta, but some of the pipe dreams I am reading on here are going to be comical in 2 years time; again just my opinion.

ACL - probably isn't a good idea to be so chummy with mgt.... don't give away negotiating leverage, I'm sure you won't but you never know the information they are trying to extract! I don't care if you have known each other since grade school; are you willing to sell everyone else out?
 
twobits said:
Right, it's about the cash flow..... 2 Billion is better than 1 Billion in the bank today...... they need CASH right now. Hey JAL, do you want to join an alliance with 2 asian carriers already there, or stay in an alliance that only has one other asian carrier? I can make a proforma statement today that says airline XYZ is going to benefit JAL more with cash flow, do you think they will pick my offer over theirs? Not without a few Billion to go with it!

Don't get tunnel vision over JAL/DAL..... and don't for a second think it will not be a sacrifice of DAL jobs. I want the best for Delta, but some of the pipe dreams I am reading on here are going to be comical in 2 years time; again just my opinion.

ACL - probably isn't a good idea to be so chummy with mgt.... don't give away negotiating leverage, I'm sure you won't but you never know the information they are trying to extract! I don't care if you have known each other since grade school; are you willing to sell everyone else out?
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First you do not know me, and second most of the guys in management would not know men if I walked in to their office. I am a nobody. Do not give me more importance than I have. I am a line grunt. Plain and simple.

I do not sell anyone out. Again you do not get it.

As for JAL. They are looking for a long term cash stream. SkyTeam has that. They have about 8 billion in financing set up. They may go with AMR but AMR needs to get TPG out of the mix. I think they are starting to see that.
 
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Doesn't matter who you are, mgt knows you are a pilot - they don't care which pilot they are picking the brain of, we are all the same to them. Just don't do it; unless you need to stop by to tell him that you knocked his daughter up and you will be moving into his basement/2nd home with her.

What makes you think that Oneworld will not provide a good revenue stream to JAL, and a more relevant one at that (they already know the benefit)? You could argue that if Oneworld was working out for JAL, then they would not be in need of bailing out..... but not if if you are Delta. You know, the airline that just came out of bankruptcy and bought another airline that also had recently emerged out of bankruptcy! I guess you could say that Delta knows how to get out of contracts, and that would help JAL; but so does AA, BA, CX, and TPG!

Look, I want the best for Delta. JAL would be great for Skyteam and Delta (the company). More of that synergy stuff would happen. I am not convinced that there is any benefit to pilots; which is my sole concern.
 
twobits said:
2 Billion is quite a bit for Delta to hold up to. I mean, that's how much total cash Delta had on hand in Bankruptcy..... and that wasn't so long ago.

Industry power will get stronger no matter how this plays out. Did you ever read that book I mentioned a few months ago, General?

I hope Delta makes the deal with JAL - but I'm pretty sure just a few codeshares out of Japan will result - not in favor of Delta pilots IMHO.
Click to expand...

Just because AMR offers $2 billion, doesn't mean we have to pay that much. The Japanese Gov't likes OUR PLAN better. They were not impressed with Arpey and the AMR plan, since it focused on why JAL shouldn't go with Delta, rather than what they (AMR and JAL) would do together. They want JAL to survive and grow again someday, and really focus now on being a mainly domestic airline in Japan. I guess Arpey could offer $7 billion and we would have to match that too, right? They are trying to make us pay too much, and Tokyo (the Gov't) has already stated we have the better plan, whatever that is. We will probably find out soon, but AMR and OneWorld Alliance really had NOTHING going on over there anyway.


Bye Bye---General Lee
 
twobits said:
Doesn't matter who you are, mgt knows you are a pilot - they don't care which pilot they are picking the brain of, we are all the same to them. Just don't do it; unless you need to stop by to tell him that you knocked his daughter up and you will be moving into his basement/2nd home with her.

What makes you think that Oneworld will not provide a good revenue stream to JAL, and a more relevant one at that (they already know the benefit)? You could argue that if Oneworld was working out for JAL, then they would not be in need of bailing out..... but not if if you are Delta. You know, the airline that just came out of bankruptcy and bought another airline that also had recently emerged out of bankruptcy! I guess you could say that Delta knows how to get out of contracts, and that would help JAL; but so does AA, BA, CX, and TPG!

Look, I want the best for Delta. JAL would be great for Skyteam and Delta (the company). More of that synergy stuff would happen. I am not convinced that there is any benefit to pilots; which is my sole concern.
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HMMMMM. What makes me think OneWorld wasn't providing JAL with enough revenue? Hmmmmm. Maybe they are almost in BK now and they want to drop 26 INTL routes and 11 domestic routes within Japan? Doesn't sound like the current plan is working. DL has more rights from Japan to Asia, and better connections to the US. AirFrance and KLM can help them with routes in Europe. British Air has only 2 flights to LHR from NRT now, and AA flew to JFK, LAX, ORD, and DFW. Cathay Pacific was the other OneWorld member in the region, and they didn't seem to help much on the JAL revenue stream. DL flies to all of Asia, Hawaii, LAX, SFO, PDX, SEA, MSP, DTW, JFK, ATL, etc....., and KLM and AF fly to CDG and AMS. It just is a better combo, and Tokyo agrees. We'll see...


Bye Bye---General Lee
 
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