Compass to Seperate from DAL MEC

[PCL_128]

Keep in mind that this isn't final until the governing bodies at the national level approve it. It's entirely possible that the Executive Council will look at the split vote and decide that this isn't a good idea.

Where does the CPZ coordinator stand on this issue?

 

[flap operator]

How do you figure the flow at XJ "pales" in comparison to the flow at CP? I'd much rather have protections for a flowback when times are bad and have them metered. If it means only haveing a trickle up (9) then so be it. The flow rate that CP currently has of 25 or whatever is non sustainable and would be completely devastating if there were to be a flowback.

Fine... give up your flow. More slots for the XJ guys when things start turning around. I hope that attitude is a minority attitude! Ask the 12 XJ guys that got to flow how they like it? If it isn't hurting you, why get rid of it?

As for a merger between Compass and Mesaba... well... that would be rather entertaining.

Having your own MEC will finally allow you proper representation. Yea, 'cause the NW/DL pilots were really looking out for your best interests... especially giving you a non voting "representative" position. Now you'll have your own MEC and finally be just like the rest of the DCI grunts. And having the attitude that you couldn't represent yourselves because there is nobody good enough is defeatest and really sad. Take care of your own problems like the rest of us! There's got to be at least 10 guys there willing to stand up for your group right?

 

[callowayhd]

so who is gonna guess on how the lists will be intergrated when it comes time to deal with that, will we have former 175 captains as sabb captains, or 175 fos as 340 fos? 9 fos who will be 175 captains?

 

[G2T]

so who is gonna guess on how the lists will be intergrated when it comes time to deal with that, will we have former 175 captains as sabb captains, or 175 fos as 340 fos? 9 fos who will be 175 captains?

That seems to be getting a little ahead of things, doesn't it?

 

[callowayhd]

not if "its a done deal" according to someones brothers sisters cousins uncle's step son who blew a former LCA at compass while in highschool said so!

 

[rumrunner300]

Double edged sword

Ending the flow would, in the long run, be detrimental to the interests of the CPZ guys if, and only if, recall rights attach even if you get a job elsewhere and would still be eligible for return to your previous status. In the short term, I am of the opinion that eventually DAL will have to furlough some bodies and 350 bodies is a relatively small number, but enough to displace EVERY pilot at Compass.

Retirements will resume before the economy, and more importantly, the consumer regain the confidence to return the industry to good times. The question is whether DAL can eat the costs of carrying extra people until late 2013.

Let's not forget the possibility that this industry, and tangentially, this JOB (you will notice I will never use the word career in connection with piloting ever again) simply will never be the same. The public has determined that air travel is no different than any other utility and should always be affordable.

The public will always tell you that you should be well paid, but backpedal like a mutherfocker when you add the caveat that it would double airfares.

REALITY CHECK:::!!!!! Those so inclined, please insert head in sand at this time.

Flying is the best job in the world in my opinion. If you want to undertake the challenge for the love of it, do so. Just be damn sure you have suitable backup income/options and never expect to make great money for the rest of your career.

runnin' like a mofo.

 

[SpauldingSmails]

Keep in mind that this isn't final until the governing bodies at the national level approve it. It's entirely possible that the Executive Council will look at the split vote and decide that this isn't a good idea.

Where does the CPZ coordinator stand on this issue?

The CPZ coordinator is a strong advocate for remaining within DAL MEC, he's giving a presentation to the Ex. Council at the request of the MEC to state his view point.

 

[samballs]

Keep in mind that this isn't final until the governing bodies at the national level approve it. It's entirely possible that the Executive Council will look at the split vote and decide that this isn't a good idea.

Where does the CPZ coordinator stand on this issue?

Prater will be feeding his face with a jelly donut and coffee, trying to figure out how to get more money for the MECS to eat. This is small stuff compared to the MECS food bills

 

[DoinTime]

Keep in mind that this isn't final until the governing bodies at the national level approve it. It's entirely possible that the Executive Council will look at the split vote and decide that this isn't a good idea.

Where does the CPZ coordinator stand on this issue?

Its not up to the Council to decide if this is a good idea. The only thing the EC will do is look at the feasibility/reasonability of the request. Even with the split vote, the resolution more than meets these benchmarks.

 

[PCL_128]

Its not up to the Council to decide if this is a good idea. The only thing the EC will do is look at the feasibility/reasonability of the request. Even with the split vote, the resolution more than meets these benchmarks.

The Bylaws aren't exactly clear on this, as far as I can tell. However, I would say that "feasibility" is in question, as the Association is having financial problems. Creating a new MEC for no reasonable purpose that will surely suck up OCF money and not be able to support itself, while meanwhile the DAL MEC has millions of dollars sitting in their SMRA doing nothing but buying extravagant furniture to inflate the Chairman's ego, make this a highly unreasonable request, in my opinion.

 

[DoinTime]

The Bylaws aren't exactly clear on this, as far as I can tell. However, I would say that "feasibility" is in question, as the Association is having financial problems. Creating a new MEC for no reasonable purpose that will surely suck up OCF money and not be able to support itself, while meanwhile the DAL MEC has millions of dollars sitting in their SMRA doing nothing but buying extravagant furniture to inflate the Chairman's ego, make this a highly unreasonable request, in my opinion.

By your reasoning though, the Council should be pushing all mainline MECs to absorb their regional counterparts MECs or to at least donate their excess revenue to the less fortunate. Certainly, that isn't about to happen at any time in the foreseeable future.

All the DAL MEC is asking is to undo the horrible situation that the NWA MEC created. The current situation is no different than the governmental arrangement that led to the Revolutionary War. It was a stupid idea in the first place and it needs to end before it does erupt into war.

 

[PCL_128]

By your reasoning though, the Council should be pushing all mainline MECs to absorb their regional counterparts MECs

Compass is a slightly different creature than most regionals. There never was an MEC to be "absorbed" in the case of Compass, because it was created by the action of the NWA MEC when they took concessions and created Compass. The entire CPZ contract was negotiated by NWA MEC reps. The flowup/down structure is unique. Etc...

or to at least donate their excess revenue to the less fortunate.

I don't know if I'd put it that way, but I have suggested eliminating the SMRA refund policy and capping SMRA balances at $5 million, sweeping the overage into the A&S, OCF, or MCF. A handful of MECs sit on millions upon millions of dollars, and meanwhile, the rest of the Association struggles and the Unit 1 staff is told to suck it up and take concessions. This is fair? I think not.

Certainly, that isn't about to happen at any time in the foreseeable future.

I'm not sure exactly what will happen, but there will have to be changes. Expenses can only surpass revenue for so long before something gives.

All the DAL MEC is asking is to undo the horrible situation that the NWA MEC created. The current situation is no different than the governmental arrangement that led to the Revolutionary War. It was a stupid idea in the first place and it needs to end before it does erupt into war.

Apparently the CPZ coordinator disagrees with your assessment. Should we not listen to the representative of the CPZ pilots as to what is in their best interests? This reeks of nothing more than some reps' disdain for "little airplane" drivers.

I really find it interesting that the 13/12 vote fell entirely along North/South lines. The South (Delta) reps all voted FOR, with the North (NWA) reps all voting AGAINST. Big shocker. The pilots that have consistently led the way in giving away scope and looking down their noses at RJ pilots are trying to shove the CPZ pilots aside, while the pilots that have historically had some of the best scope are trying to preserve a working relationship that has an intact flow-through program. At least it gives me a shred of hope that the 12 that voted AGAINST will also vote against a certain someone becoming the next ALPA President.

 

[G2T]

All the DAL MEC is asking is to undo the horrible situation that the NWA MEC created. The current situation is no different than the governmental arrangement that led to the Revolutionary War. It was a stupid idea in the first place and it needs to end before it does erupt into war.

Tell me more, what part of it is stupid?

Is it the part where the mainline MEC has an active hand in the operation and control of it's wholly-owned regional carriers? To me, that sounds right up ALPA's "Taking it Back" mantra.

Is it the part where divesting compass only passed by one vote along pre-merger lines? It seems the NWA guys understand the value of keeping the children close.

Or is it that you are a Mesaba pilot and are just afraid to see something different happening, and think you may somehow get screwed on the deal? The biggest complaint from the other regionals that I hear is the well educated argument of, "It's not Fair!".

 

[callowayhd]

so would DOH be a fair way to integrate the seniority lists with some sort of fence on the crj's and erj's for 5 years or something?

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

Doesn't AA Eagle fly feed for DAL? And Horizon was flying feed for Frontier.

cliff
NBO

 

[DrewBlows]

Now maybe we can get some representation for our dues and get rid of the flow through all together!

You are the first Compass pilot I've met who thinks this is a good idea.

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

You are the first Compass pilot I've met who thinks this is a good idea.

I believe "that guy" has made himself known.

 

[mynameisjim]

I would say that this crazy idea is not supported by the majority of Compass pilots.

 

[regionaltard]

Don't even use DAL pilots, scope, and common sense in the same sentence

Agreed. They whiffed on another chance to get it right here. They must be worried about some Compass guy moving up through the ranks and landing a heavy on a taxiway someday.

 

[samballs]

Agreed. They whiffed on another chance to get it right here. They must be worried about some Compass guy moving up through the ranks and landing a heavy on a taxiway someday.

HAHAHA, Surprised Moak hasn't come out and said that the MEC will investigate to see if there was a hijacking of the the taxiway plane, because no DAL pilot makes a mistake

 

[Full of LUV]

Or just maybe...

Agreed. They whiffed on another chance to get it right here. They must be worried about some Compass guy moving up through the ranks and landing a heavy on a taxiway someday.

Maybe they are worried about another lawsuit ala RJDC to crop up when the next contract goes into negotiation. I mean if the company wants to double Compass's size (part of the MEC) who has the right to spend negotiating capital to stop it? It's inherently difficult for the same MEC, let alone Union to appropriately represent the varied differing interests that DAL mainline and Compass would want resolved at the negotiating table.
Luv

 

[JoeMerchant]

Maybe they are worried about another lawsuit ala RJDC to crop up when the next contract goes into negotiation. I mean if the company wants to double Compass's size (part of the MEC) who has the right to spend negotiating capital to stop it? It's inherently difficult for the same MEC, let alone Union to appropriately represent the varied differing interests that DAL mainline and Compass would want resolved at the negotiating table.
Luv

That's exactly why this was done...The conflict of interest has painted ALPA into a corner....

 

[regionaltard]

....differing interests....

As long as airline managers can continue to enlist the aid of airline unions' leadership in maintaining that illusion, nothing can or will ever change.

 

[Full of LUV]

Illusion???

As long as airline managers can continue to enlist the aid of airline unions' leadership in maintaining that illusion, nothing can or will ever change.

What illusion, even in DAL MEC there will be differences in what should be negotiated for.... International pay / night pay / pay rate disparities amongst airframes / work rules for domestic vs intnl.

During a contract everything is negotiable, for a price, so how could a MEC possibly (without a lawsuit) say to DAL that they want something that could be conceivably detrimental to a wholly owned / represented carrier without a lawsuit? Maybe the plan was for the MEC to continue to negotiate these folks back to the mainline.
Fact was NWA created Compass so that when the bottom of their SL was furloughed they had somewhere to go so that when the top half of the SL kept their pensions, they could sleep at night knowing that bottom of the SL wouldn't be completely unemployed.

It's more of a generational thing I believe. Those who have theirs do not want to flatten the pay scales to make the bottom a livable wage.

Ultimately DAL MEC could have all the DCI flying on property if they offered the company a 30% discount on widebody flying and used those savings to "recapture" the regional stuff. At what point do you stop bringing down the top though?

Would the regionals be willing to accept a pay scale that did not give raises over time for longevity? There are all kinds of ways to shake up the current system, but what we need is some real leadership with a vision and a plan.

 

[jonjuan]

Fact was NWA created Compass so that when the bottom of their SL was furloughed they had somewhere to go so that when the top half of the SL kept their pensions, they could sleep at night knowing that bottom of the SL wouldn't be completely unemployed.
Really? Says who? NWA management?

Would the regionals be willing to accept a pay scale that did not give raises over time for longevity? There are all kinds of ways to shake up the current system, but what we need is some real leadership with a vision and a plan.

From what I understand, the regional pay-scale is already flat as it is.

 

[mynameisjim]

The perceived conflict of interest doesn't exist. Compass pilots don't want Compass to grow at the expense of Delta jobs any more than Delta pilots do.

 

[SpauldingSmails]

The perceived conflict of interest doesn't exist. Compass pilots don't want Compass to grow at the expense of Delta jobs any more than Delta pilots do.

That's the viewpoint most of us have, and most of realize that the jobs we'd take through growth at Compass would likely only be our own future slots at DAL.

I've said it before, if King Moak is concerned about DFR lawsuits, he should be more concerned about the jr. ranks of DAL pilots, not CPZ guys.

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

I think the concern is guys like Mr. Indy Air here. Not that i agree with it- they've still got a bad taste and a disdain for situations like that b/c of the RJDC thing. Ironically, I think they are setting themselves up for round to unintentionally.

Moak is a joke when it comes to small jet scope....

 

[JoeMerchant]

It only takes one Compass pilot to file a DFR lawsuit, and this one would be a slam dunk since the Compass pilots don't even have a vote on their MEC.

The "lifers" at the regionals are a minority...However it is a minority that you are going to have to deal with...

 

[buscap]

Most lifers aren't lifers by choice. We are lifers due to the shortsightedness of the mainline pilots who gave the flying away, eliminating seat positions at their airlines, which resulted in this whole debacle.

It is not ALPA's fault. It is the fault of the senior pilots at the mainlines. ALPA never made anyone sign a contract. Those three-times-divorced-I-got-mine preeeeeecks did this.

And we can also pin their furloughs on them too.

And now they want to take it back????

Hey mainline!!!!

Take this!!! Right here buddy!!!

You stuck me here, so pucker up and start kissing it!!!