Compass to Seperate from DAL MEC

[IFLYIMC]

Compass to Separate from DAL MEC

Now maybe we can get some representation for our dues and get rid of the flow through all together!

http://www.ajc.com/business/delta-pilots-want-separate-162013.html?cxtype=rss_business_87628

By a narrow margin, Delta Air Lines' pilots union leaders have recommended the creation of a separate union branch to represent pilots at a regional carrier acquired as part of the merger with Northwest Airlines.
Pilots at Virginia-based Compass Airlines had been represented by the pilots union at Northwest. But Delta's pilot union historically has represented only pilots who fly for the main airline.
Air Line Pilots Association leaders at Delta voted 13-12 last week to recommend that the national union set up a separate ALPA unit for Compass, according to a memo by Delta ALPA chairman Lee Moak. If approved by the national union, the restructuring would be effective in October of 2010.
Pilots at Delta subsidiary Comair and former subsidiary Atlantic Southeast Airlines are already represented by separate ALPA units. They petitioned unsuccessfully in 2000 to be merged into the main ALPA unit, arguing it would result in fairer representation. At the time, Comair and ASA pilot leaders said that, on issues that affect pay and career advancement, the larger chapter has more clout and can negotiate terms that hurt the smaller units. One such issue is limits on regional jet use, which large unions have sought in order to hold down the amount of flying done by lower-paid regional pilots.
Compass pilots fly Embraer 175 jets out of Northwest hubs Minneapolis, Detroit and Memphis.

 

[andyd]

If we get rid of the flow through then hopefully the next move would be to spin you off to RAH....see how you like those career prospects vs a number at DAL...it would be moronic to advocate ending the flow through.

 

[RiddleEagle18]

Now maybe we can get some representation for our dues and get rid of the flow through all together!

http://www.ajc.com/business/delta-pilots-want-separate-162013.html?cxtype=rss_business_87628

By a narrow margin, Delta Air Lines' pilots union leaders have recommended the creation of a separate union branch to represent pilots at a regional carrier acquired as part of the merger with Northwest Airlines.
Pilots at Virginia-based Compass Airlines had been represented by the pilots union at Northwest. But Delta's pilot union historically has represented only pilots who fly for the main airline.
Air Line Pilots Association leaders at Delta voted 13-12 last week to recommend that the national union set up a separate ALPA unit for Compass, according to a memo by Delta ALPA chairman Lee Moak. If approved by the national union, the restructuring would be effective in October of 2010.
Pilots at Delta subsidiary Comair and former subsidiary Atlantic Southeast Airlines are already represented by separate ALPA units. They petitioned unsuccessfully in 2000 to be merged into the main ALPA unit, arguing it would result in fairer representation. At the time, Comair and ASA pilot leaders said that, on issues that affect pay and career advancement, the larger chapter has more clout and can negotiate terms that hurt the smaller units. One such issue is limits on regional jet use, which large unions have sought in order to hold down the amount of flying done by lower-paid regional pilots.
Compass pilots fly Embraer 175 jets out of Northwest hubs Minneapolis, Detroit and Memphis.

You cant think this is a good thing. I hope your kidding. If not you knew it was in place when you came here.

 

[rf285]

End the flow and you might find that your jet is gone because 70+ seat jets will revert to 85 from the current 150+. Good luck with that!

 

[SpauldingSmails]

I really feel it is in our best interest to maintain the flow. The sooner that flow starts working in the right direction, the better it will be for guys who want to flow-up as well as guys who'd rather stay at Compass.

As others have mentioned the cap on 76 seaters is dependent on the flow remaining intact.

To poison the well in our village to keep others away is short-sighted and dangerous.

 

[Quack]

Now maybe we can get some representation for our dues and get rid of the flow through all together!

do you really think that we're going to get this awesome representation by our own group? this isn't indy air! again, this isn't indy air! this just went from bad to worse, my .02. who's going to represent us? word is that we don't have enough money as our own MEC to give anyone days off to do alpa duties. you knew about the flow when you signed the line...

 

[pdub20s]

Now maybe we can get some representation for our dues and get rid of the flow through all together!

do you really think that we're going to get this awesome representation by our own group? this isn't indy air! again, this isn't indy air! this just went from bad to worse, my .02. who's going to represent us? word is that we don't have enough money as our own MEC to give anyone days off to do alpa duties. you knew about the flow when you signed the line...

You will get your $ from alpa national. I dont know one regional that can operate their MEC expenses on just their pilot group alone. Your money will come from other ALPA MECs as well. Ie. Delta who has around 11K pilots

 

[Skywest Pylot]

Another short sighted move by DALPA. Eventually getting those EMBs on the property would have been a step in the right direction for recapturing scope. Looks like the Delta North guys supported Compass but the South guys had the majority and screwed Compass. Those EMBs are mainline aircraft and should be flown by mainline pilots (which would include Compass pilots stapled to the bottom of our list). I am very disappointed.

 

[crj567]

Yeah guys!

Keep that flow going! Make sure we see every one of you right out on the street! Just look at all the other "flows" which have benefitted the regional guys! Eagle just loves their flow-what a great deal!!

 

[IFLYIMC]

You cant think this is a good thing. I hope your kidding. If not you knew it was in place when you came here.

We had no contract when I came here, it was still being negotiated.

 

[IFLYIMC]

If we get rid of the flow through then hopefully the next move would be to spin you off to RAH....see how you like those career prospects vs a number at DAL...it would be moronic to advocate ending the flow through.

As for spinning us off that has been talked about since May 2, 2007. The flow is only one sided at this point, so my opinion of the flow is negative.

Compass is not obligated to flying just for DAL we have the ability to bid contracts for other airlines.

 

[IFLYIMC]

Now maybe we can get some representation for our dues and get rid of the flow through all together!

do you really think that we're going to get this awesome representation by our own group? this isn't indy air! again, this isn't indy air! this just went from bad to worse, my .02. who's going to represent us? word is that we don't have enough money as our own MEC to give anyone days off to do alpa duties. you knew about the flow when you signed the line...

I don't think we are going to get some awesome representation by our own group, but I do know that this group cares more about what kind of contract we fly vs DALPA. The representation can't get any worse than what we have now with an MEC that only cares about DAL pilots. My dues are good for one thing with our current representation, helping to fund DALPA.

 

[JumpersAway]

As for spinning us off that has been talked about since May 2, 2007. The flow is only one sided at this point, so my opinion of the flow is negative.

Compass is not obligated to flying just for DAL we have the ability to bid contracts for other airlines.

So let me get this straight- you are owned by DAL INC., and you think that another airline is going to hire you for flying a regional lift contract? Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that like putting money directly into the hands of the competitor, for any other airline looking to do this???? Why not save the trouble and have United, USAirways, American, or any of the others just write Delta a check to expedite the bleeding- it would be easier that way and burn less fuel in the process...............

 

[koepp]

We had no contract when I came here, it was still being negotiated.

But the flow up/dn was negotiated much earlier and is the reason Compass exists in the first place. NWA LOAs 2006-10 and 2006-14 clearly outline the flow up and down and are dated July 31, 2006.

 

[mesaba13]

I have a dumb question. Why would the flow be in jeopardy with regard to new representation?

 

[koepp]

I have a dumb question. Why would the flow be in jeopardy with regard to new representation?

One has nothing to do with the other.

 

[IFLYIMC]

But the flow up/dn was negotiated much earlier and is the reason Compass exists in the first place. NWA LOAs 2006-10 and 2006-14 clearly outline the flow up and down and are dated July 31, 2006.

LOA 2006-10 might have been negotiated in 2006, but we had not seen anything in writing until July of 2007. Yes we were given a brief update on contract negotiations up to July of 2007 but we did not see details until it was signed and printed. As for your comment about the flow, Compass was not created based on flow it was created base on providing jobs to the NWA furloughed pilots.

 

[IFLYIMC]

So let me get this straight- you are owned by DAL INC., and you think that another airline is going to hire you for flying a regional lift contract? Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that like putting money directly into the hands of the competitor, for any other airline looking to do this???? Why not save the trouble and have United, USAirways, American, or any of the others just write Delta a check to expedite the bleeding- it would be easier that way and burn less fuel in the process...............

Whats the difference between RAH, Mesa and Colgan etc....that fly for more than one airline.

 

[flyboyike]

So let me get this straight- you are owned by DAL INC., and you think that another airline is going to hire you for flying a regional lift contract? Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that like putting money directly into the hands of the competitor, for any other airline looking to do this????

How is that really different from DAL giving all those millions to RAH, who then used said millions to prop us USAir? I agree with you that it's crazy, but my point is it's not the first time.

 

[Popeye0537]

Whats the difference between RAH, Mesa and Colgan etc....that fly for more than one airline.

The difference is you don't see Comair or ASA(formerly wholly owned) flying for anyone other than DAL.

 

[koepp]

LOA 2006-10 might have been negotiated in 2006, but we had not seen anything in writing until July of 2007. Yes we were given a brief update on contract negotiations up to July of 2007 but we did not see details until it was signed and printed. As for your comment about the flow, Compass was not created based on flow it was created base on providing jobs to the NWA furloughed pilots.

I too started at Compass prior to the CPZ ALPA contract signing. Before making the decision to leave my job as a Captain at Trans States, I read up on the flow. NWA LOAs 2006-10 and 14 are in the NWA ALPA contract, not the Compass contract, and were available to read since late 2006. The section about the flow up/dn in our contract is based on those LOAs. You're right that Compass was created to provide jobs to current and future furloughed NWA pilots which is what I meant by "flow".

 

[Full of LUV]

So that's your aspirations.....

Whats the difference between RAH, Mesa and Colgan etc....that fly for more than one airline.

So that's your goal? To be like RAH, Mesa, or Colgan......

God help us, I was hoping that GEN X or GEN Y would see how they are being played, but apparently I've got to re-establish my expectations for the pilot profession.

IFLYIMC: What is your personal career goal as a pilot? (besides being IMC)

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

THis seems shortsighted to me. It seems the opposite of scope...it seems that DAL wants Compass separate, and then they lose jobs to a separate entity and DAL mgmt gets to play DAL pilots off against another lower-paying company that is flying DAL pax.

To me, the next logical step would be to spin off the DC-9/MD-80/MD-90 guys into a separate MEC and separate airline also.

Why is this a good idea for DAL/Compass pilots? It seems like it is worse for both.

cliff
NBO

 

[andyd]

It is a bad idea for both. I does make sense on the representational side of the issue., the same mec representing mainline and regional who have competing interests. However, I think that this opens the door and paves the way for CPS to get spun off. You are correct that the DAL pilot contract provides for the flow, however should cps be spun off that could easily be amended by LOA...especially given the track record on scope that the current MEC has under Moak. This first step makes the other steps easier and more likely. If you are not in favor of the flow and are at Cps currently then you have the option of "opting" out and choosing the Cps career path, keeping your seniority/seat and your job in the event of a flow down. I believe that this option is available to 10% of the Cps list, what's wrong with letting the other 90% flow up when thier time comes? NOTHING.

 

[samballs]

Don't even use DAL pilots, scope, and common sense in the same sentence

 

[samballs]

It is a bad idea for both. I does make sense on the representational side of the issue., the same mec representing mainline and regional who have competing interests. However, I think that this opens the door and paves the way for CPS to get spun off. You are correct that the DAL pilot contract provides for the flow, however should cps be spun off that could easily be amended by LOA...especially given the track record on scope that the current MEC has under Moak. This first step makes the other steps easier and more likely. If you are not in favor of the flow and are at Cps currently then you have the option of "opting" out and choosing the Cps career path, keeping your seniority/seat and your job in the event of a flow down. I believe that this option is available to 10% of the Cps list, what's wrong with letting the other 90% flow up when thier time comes? NOTHING.

You must not talk to DL pilots much. they will tell you that you don't become a DL pilot, you're born a DL pilot, this after the 10 minute speech about how they just had the hardest final of all time even though its 10 miles, clear, and no wind, the real reaon though is they were turned for final inside of 80 miles

 

[GogglesPisano]

How about an in-house union that represents the interests of 12,000 Delta pilots without the conflict of interest associated with representing mainline and regional pilots.

 

[Ridgeback]

This is yet another step into merging Compass with Mesaba...those who have been following the small details see how these are all adding up. Before you respond with a "no Way" please do some research and your homework...Soon the Compass pilots will be represented by the Mesaba Mec! First under the cover as a trasitional MEC, then...

 

[andyd]

This is yet another step into merging Compass with Mesaba...those who have been following the small details see how these are all adding up. Before you respond with a "no Way" please do some research and your homework...Soon the Compass pilots will be represented by the Mesaba Mec! First under the cover as a trasitional MEC, then...

That is probably the most realistic scenario likely and if so would screw the CPS guys that went to CPS in the first place with the sole intention to flow up to DAL. Now under even the most generous SLI with Mesaba would have several hundred more guys in the flow waiting for the DAL seat above them...and the flow that Mesaba has pales in comparison to the one that CPS currently has. For the current CPS Captain that would have flowed up in the next 18-24 months (realistically)...it would be well over a 10 year wait if that were to happen.

 

[NEWSOUTH]

LOA 2006-10 might have been negotiated in 2006, but we had not seen anything in writing until July of 2007. Yes we were given a brief update on contract negotiations up to July of 2007 but we did not see details until it was signed and printed. As for your comment about the flow, Compass was not created based on flow it was created base on providing jobs to the NWA furloughed pilots.

I thought CPS was formed to provide a C scale to mainline pilots. You don't furlough and then create an airline to put said forloughed pilots. You transfer your mainline pilots to a lower wage company via pink slip. Anyway, I know you "think your flying shoul be mainline too". But, what a mistake to lose the flow. What do you have besides that? Ego? Regional career? If this thing goes the way of Mesaba, then that will be a long ten years at a regional (almost Mainline Regional). Delta has you all's number and they are dialing it collect.