Avantair

[jpeace02]

I apologize for bringing this up again but there's, oh I don't know about 700 of us at NJA that will be looking for work real soon.
I think Avantair has a good model and seems to be doing well just wondering what the deal is with future hiring?
Any info would be great.

 

[wacoflyr]

Brother, I doubt anybody knows. Purely a guess, but maybe a class in November, followed by more this winter. I work here, and that is nothing but a guess. I wish you the best and hope you don't have to find out first hand.

 

[Pervis]

Peace, I understand your concern and agree networking for plan B is a good idea, but you come across as knowing something when you are just assuming a worst case secenario. Small detail, but you aren't the only one threatened, so please avoid difinitive statements.

Last Friday's 411 made it very clear the company has not approached the union about furloughs at this time. There are steps to be taken-it can't just come in the form of an axe, like it did to the non-bargaining unit. There is hope yet, albeit cautious optimism.

 

[skyaddict]

700? Worst casing is like saying that an athlete should have zero percent body fat to be efficient. All fracs are running much too fat right now, but if any frac is ever stupid enough to shed all its fat, the cost of contracting lift on peak days, swine flu outbreaks and whatnot would more than kill off all that savings in spades.

 

[G200_PILOT]

Come on guys, so he spit out a number. So what? He asked a legit question and it would be great if a thread like this stayed on topic. I think it has the potential to help a lot of our guys out. Yeah, maybe even 700 of them...

 

[wacoflyr]

Okay, I'll bite. To give more info, you need an internal rec from someone you have flown with. 5,000 hours or more would be good, as would previous frac experience. Obviously, the market is extremely competitive right now. I very much hope that no one at NetJets needs this info.

Wacoflyr

 

[jpeace02]

Waco,

Good info. thanks. To everybody who's concerned with the high number of furloughs please talk to the union stewards. I'm not interested in burying my head in the sand and I'm very junior.

 

[BuckMurdock1]

Just curious-- are the Piaggio aircraft certificated for 2 pilots?? (obviously ops specs/insurance req. aside). I've got a friend who may be interested in applying, but he's too cheap to pay $10 for FI acct.
As for me- I'll only make $4000 less per yr on unemployment than a first yr F/O at Avantair...and a newborn at home: "Mr. Mom" it is.

 

[corpflunkie]

Waco's right. Right now, it is anybody's guess if/when we start looking at new hires. We (Avantair) managed to stay lean through this whole economic fiasco, and are in better shape than most. (not a dig at anyone, trust me) That being said, I have NO idea what will happen IF the godfather of fractionals (NJA) furloughs. I can't even begin to guess how the paying public (uber rich) are going to respond to the industry as a whole in that event.

CF

 

[grandma]

I apologize for bringing this up again but there's, oh I don't know about 700 of us at NJA that will be looking for work real soon.
I think Avantair has a good model and seems to be doing well just wondering what the deal is with future hiring?
Any info would be great.

just curious if you'd still consider avantair if you had to give up nj recall?

 

[BeenThereDoneIt]

BUCK: As for me- I'll only make $4000 less per yr on unemployment than a first yr F/O at Avantair...and a newborn at home: "Mr. Mom" it is.

ME: That's why I quit them in the middle of a recession. But, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. There are 5,000 pilots who want the job I quit. Go get it....LOLOLOL

 

[wacoflyr]

So you would rather collect unemployment than work. Figures.

 

[jpeace02]

just curious if you'd still consider avantair if you had to give up nj recall?

I wish you were interviewing me. Yes I'd give up the recall. As soon as an employer tells me I'm no longer valued. I can't get outta there quick enough. I'm not waiting around for NJA.
You guys seem to be doing it right. Who knows where you'll be in 10 years. As far as NJA goes well I don't know of too many companies that, "shrink to profitability," I'm sure there out there but this guy Sokol is cutting us to the bone.

 

[hangarrat]

BUCK: As for me- I'll only make $4000 less per yr on unemployment than a first yr F/O at Avantair...and a newborn at home: "Mr. Mom" it is.

ME: That's why I quit them in the middle of a recession. But, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. There are 5,000 pilots who want the job I quit. Go get it....LOLOLOL

Buck are you really going to wait until some else does the hard work of building a successful and profitable company before joining in? I would rather fly banners, traffic watch and instruct then sit at home and suck off a goverment t!t. This isnt the first time the economy took a dump. But, to each his own Mr. Mom. Real American of you.

BTDI didn't you quit because you were home sick . Did any one tell you that real planes actually fly away from home airports and don't return at the end of the lesson. Those who can do, those who can't... :laugh:

Good luck to every one else. I for one hope that NJA does not furlough and they find a way to become an operationally profitable company. That would be good news for all us Frac pilots ! ! !

To get back to the topic: I hear that we are just a couple aircraft away from conducting the next initial class. Sales are reported to be stronger than the set goals so we hope to see the aircraft come soon.

I also hope that the economy turns around real soon so we can get back to argueing about which frac is the best one to be at.

 

[glasspilot]

Just to make a point. Unemployment is NOT sucking off the "government t!t."

Welfare is, food stamps are..but unemployment is an insurance that employers pay into and a worker collects. It's no different than crashing your car and expecting someone else to pay for the damage...the insurance company that you've been paying premiums to for years and years.

By the way, for years and years the unemployment fund has paid out LESS than 30% of the premiums collected. Only recently have those numbers approached what normal insurance companies pay out. In other words, don't feel bad for taking an insurance that's been paid in full.

Now, is not accepting a job because you only make 4K a year more than unemployment a wise decision? I don't know. The guy who takes the job is on year two pay when "Mr. Moms" unemployment runs out and he then takes the same job anyway with a year less seniority. Seems like an easy decision to me, but what do I know...

 

[noperf]

glass,

Very good clarification.
The premium the employer pays is also money that you aren't paid.

 

[realityman]

Glass, if you are ABLE (a big assumption right now with the economy and hiring) to find work, but CHOOSE not to, then yes, you are sucking off the government t!t.

Is Buck able-bodied? Does he meet the qualifications to be hired by another aviation employer? Is he in good health? Then if he isn't even TRYING to find work because hey, the government will just GIVE him money nearly equivalent to what he'd make anyway, then he is absoultely an unneccesary drain on the system, and is acting unethically.

Just because the money is paid in by his former employer doesn't mean it's something that HAS to be used just because it's there. By that logic, when my car is old and tired, I should just wreck it and collect the insurance money, which may be more than I'd get for it in a trade-in. I mean, I've been paying into the insurance for years, right? If I don't use it, then what good is it?

If Buck has TRIED to find work, but couldn't. If he suffered a medical problem that precluded working at this time, then fine. That's what unemployment is for. But if he's just sitting back and collecting unemployment because it's the same as he'd make working, but much easier, then I say it's BS.

 

[fischman]

I would caution against just sitting around collecting unemployment. Losing your currency will cause a problem.

 

[BeenThereDoneIt]

Sounds like Buck will be sleeping in his own bed every night for the next year, making nearly the same pay on unemployment, while lots of pilots are sleeping in a hotel half the year and missing the kids Little League games. Gee......I suppose that IS a no-brainer!

 

[wacoflyr]

It certainly is. And which side you take in this argument defines you in ways that are obvious to all.

 

[BuckMurdock1]

Wow-- seems as though I've stirred up some sort of hornets nest (with apparent work-ethic & morality undertones) with an initial post asking a question for a friend.
First, let me clarify that I am NOT one to live off the gov't 'teet'. I think the ramifications of unemployment insurance; who actually funds it..and the difference between that and welfare (ie..able-bodied folks on 'the dole') has been covered enough in previous posts.
The only suckling of 'teet' at my household can be taken literally and involves my newborn and wife. I am able-bodied and marketable in aviation (I, like many if not most on this thread am a former RJ CA). Many resumes have already gone out; even before the first NJA furlough scare. I'm considering returning to my pre-aviation field/industry. In the short-term, time at home will certainly be a blessing.
One question, for those who have inferred that I'm lazy: WHO exactly is hiring?!??
..As for the currency issue: I own a small plane (which I'm trying to sell), and have a good friend who owns a s/e turboprop which I fly often (for free, for fun).

 

[wacoflyr]

Buck, I apologize. My comments were in no way meant for you, or for anybody else that is involuntarily unemployed. I was refering to BTDI, and his attitude only. I find his statements dishonorable, but taking unemployment when one has no other choice is certainly ethical. I never meant to demean anybody who has been furloghed, laid off, or fired. I hope we are all happily employed in the near future.

Wacoflyr

I just reread this thread, and realized that I was very unclear. I truly apologize, Buck. I was only refering to BTDI.

 

[BuckMurdock1]

Buck, I apologize. My comments were in no way meant for you, or for anybody else that is involuntarily unemployed. I was refering to BTDI, and his attitude only. I find his statements dishonorable, but taking unemployment when one has no other choice is certainly ethical. I never meant to demean anybody who has been furloghed, laid off, or fired. I hope we are all happily employed in the near future.

Wacoflyr

I just reread this thread, and realized that I was very unclear. I truly apologize, Buck. I was only refering to BTDI.

Apology accepted. Also, not that I'm totally defending BTDI (don't know his/her specific situation), but being a new father really tends to underscore what's really important in life..therefore he/she and I are on the same page in that regard.

 

[BeeFCaKe]

I would caution against just sitting around collecting unemployment. Losing your currency will cause a problem.

What do you think you should do? Blow unemployment on 100/hr skyhawk rental???

There are a ton of pilots laid off right now, and I doubt 10% have the means to pay for flying. I just don't see the value of spending your family's food money on flying.

In the end, you will get a job based upon who and what you know, not how whether you have 3,672 hrs or 3,674 after renting the local skyhawk for and hour a month..

 

[m4j2t]

Glass, if you are ABLE (a big assumption right now with the economy and hiring) to find work, but CHOOSE not to, then yes, you are sucking off the government t!t.

Just because the money is paid in by his former employer doesn't mean it's something that HAS to be used just because it's there. By that logic, when my car is old and tired, I should just wreck it and collect the insurance money, which may be more than I'd get for it in a trade-in. I mean, I've been paying into the insurance for years, right? If I don't use it, then what good is it?

What you are saying doesn't line up. He is not choosing unemployment. He is being involuntarily furloughed. Crashing a car intentionally to collect the insurance is NOTHING like his situation. It's like saying he wrecked the economy so he would get furloughed and could collect unemployment...

Being furloughed and choosing to use a benefit earned through gainful employment that ended due to no fault of his own is nothing to criticize someone for.

 

[hangarrat]

I'll only make $4000 less per yr on unemployment than a first yr F/O at Avantair...

Just to make a point. Unemployment is NOT sucking off the "government t!t."

glassspilot - IMHO; it is IF you can be employed and you choose not to be employed. In todays economy, all of us who are employed are very fortunate. Again, that is my opinion and its worth just what you paid for it.

Look, I didn't intend on causing a poop storm, my opinion is my opinion. I have been furloughed and I have stood in the unemployment line, it sucked. I got out of line and went out and got a job before i got my first check, then I got another job, then another... until I got this one. I guess I have always been lucky that way. The crap I had to go through to get the unemployment money was not worth the money I was going to get and seemed like work. And it was the kind of work I dont like. I choose to spend my time doing things I like, Flying is one of them. Hell, I will dig ditches before I will go on unemployment. Thats just me.

Good fortune to everyone in this and any other trade in America. These are tough times for sure and they are not going to magically change into good times. Goverment is not the answer, it is a big part of the problem.

Thats all, defensive rant over...

 

[hangarrat]

I apologize for bringing this up again but there's, oh I don't know about 700 of us at NJA that will be looking for work real soon.
I think Avantair has a good model and seems to be doing well just wondering what the deal is with future hiring?
Any info would be great.

to get back on topic:

Avantair posted Financials yesterday:
Avantair, Inc. Reports Fiscal Fourth Quarter and Full Year 2009 Financial Results

Achieves Full Year Operating Profitability and Revenue Growth of 18%

Fourth Quarter Fiscal 2009 Highlights:
-- Total revenues of $34.1 million, an increase of 8.6%, as compared to $31.4 million for the three months ended June 30, 2008. -- Operating loss of $684,000, compared with an operating loss of $2.1 million in the fourth quarter of 2008. -- EBITDA profit (profitable results from operations before depreciation and amortization) of $908,000, compared with an EBITDA loss of $1.3 million in the fourth fiscal quarter of 2008.


I am no financial genius; it looks like we are trending in the right direction.

 

[glasspilot]

I understand what you're saying and I feel the same way about work. I'd much prefer to work too. But there seems to be some stigma about collecting unemployment. It does not come out of the same pot as Welfare and Food Stamps. That's all I was saying.

It's curious that the discussion of unemployment comes up on the thread titled about a company that seems to be the most distant from having it's pilots need that service.

 

[hangarrat]

I agree with you about the stigma, I have felt it myself and did not like the feeling one bit. It must be something I learned while I was growing up.

I am glad I am not currently facing that situation like so many of our friends are. I will be much happier when the people of this country turn this economy around.

 

[realityman]

Buck,

My post was IF you were making NO effort to find work because it was just easier to sit back and collect government money, THEN you are acting unethically.
You say you are trying. I have no reason to doubt you. So while you're trying, collecting unemployment is ABSOLUTELY correct, and precisely what it's there for. You did not choose to be furloughed. But you can choose whether to sit back and do nothing, or keep making an effort. Glad to hear you're making the effort.

m4j2t: Go back and reread my first post. There are a lot of qualifiers in there. I said "IF" many times. Of course he did not choose to be furloughed. Of course he didn't wreck the economy to get furloughed and collect the 'easy' money. If you're furoloughed, I fully understand that's what unemployment compensation is about. But if you're just sitting back and taking the money AND MAKING NO EFFORT TO FIND GAINFUL EMPLOYMENT, all because "Hey, I've been (or my employer has been) paying into the system for years, and it's my right to colect that money.", then I stand by my assertion that it's wrong. Naturally, it's just my opinion. I certainly enjoy a good discussion on the merits of one opinion versus another.

My car analogy was in response to Glass's opinion that he or his employer has been paying into the unemployment insurance for years, so why shouldn't he just sit back and collect? By the same token, why should I take a lower price on my car during trade-in, when I may be able to collect more if I wreck it? I've been paying for car insurance for years, haven't I? It's technically my money, right? Now, if my car is in an accident (something I don't control) then I see no problem with utilizing my insurance. That's what it's there for. Same as unemployment. It's there to keep you afloat while you find new employment. But it's not there to INTENTIONALLY use to sit back and NOT work and make NO EFFORT to find work after a furlough. Sorry if I wasn't more clear in my previous post.