Avantair

[BuckMurdock1]

Wow-- seems as though I've stirred up some sort of hornets nest (with apparent work-ethic & morality undertones) with an initial post asking a question for a friend.
First, let me clarify that I am NOT one to live off the gov't 'teet'. I think the ramifications of unemployment insurance; who actually funds it..and the difference between that and welfare (ie..able-bodied folks on 'the dole') has been covered enough in previous posts.
The only suckling of 'teet' at my household can be taken literally and involves my newborn and wife. I am able-bodied and marketable in aviation (I, like many if not most on this thread am a former RJ CA). Many resumes have already gone out; even before the first NJA furlough scare. I'm considering returning to my pre-aviation field/industry. In the short-term, time at home will certainly be a blessing.
One question, for those who have inferred that I'm lazy: WHO exactly is hiring?!??
..As for the currency issue: I own a small plane (which I'm trying to sell), and have a good friend who owns a s/e turboprop which I fly often (for free, for fun).

 

[wacoflyr]

Buck, I apologize. My comments were in no way meant for you, or for anybody else that is involuntarily unemployed. I was refering to BTDI, and his attitude only. I find his statements dishonorable, but taking unemployment when one has no other choice is certainly ethical. I never meant to demean anybody who has been furloghed, laid off, or fired. I hope we are all happily employed in the near future.

Wacoflyr

I just reread this thread, and realized that I was very unclear. I truly apologize, Buck. I was only refering to BTDI.

 

[BuckMurdock1]

Buck, I apologize. My comments were in no way meant for you, or for anybody else that is involuntarily unemployed. I was refering to BTDI, and his attitude only. I find his statements dishonorable, but taking unemployment when one has no other choice is certainly ethical. I never meant to demean anybody who has been furloghed, laid off, or fired. I hope we are all happily employed in the near future.

Wacoflyr

I just reread this thread, and realized that I was very unclear. I truly apologize, Buck. I was only refering to BTDI.

Apology accepted. Also, not that I'm totally defending BTDI (don't know his/her specific situation), but being a new father really tends to underscore what's really important in life..therefore he/she and I are on the same page in that regard.

 

[BeeFCaKe]

I would caution against just sitting around collecting unemployment. Losing your currency will cause a problem.

What do you think you should do? Blow unemployment on 100/hr skyhawk rental???

There are a ton of pilots laid off right now, and I doubt 10% have the means to pay for flying. I just don't see the value of spending your family's food money on flying.

In the end, you will get a job based upon who and what you know, not how whether you have 3,672 hrs or 3,674 after renting the local skyhawk for and hour a month..

 

[m4j2t]

Glass, if you are ABLE (a big assumption right now with the economy and hiring) to find work, but CHOOSE not to, then yes, you are sucking off the government t!t.

Just because the money is paid in by his former employer doesn't mean it's something that HAS to be used just because it's there. By that logic, when my car is old and tired, I should just wreck it and collect the insurance money, which may be more than I'd get for it in a trade-in. I mean, I've been paying into the insurance for years, right? If I don't use it, then what good is it?

What you are saying doesn't line up. He is not choosing unemployment. He is being involuntarily furloughed. Crashing a car intentionally to collect the insurance is NOTHING like his situation. It's like saying he wrecked the economy so he would get furloughed and could collect unemployment...

Being furloughed and choosing to use a benefit earned through gainful employment that ended due to no fault of his own is nothing to criticize someone for.

 

[hangarrat]

I'll only make $4000 less per yr on unemployment than a first yr F/O at Avantair...

Just to make a point. Unemployment is NOT sucking off the "government t!t."

glassspilot - IMHO; it is IF you can be employed and you choose not to be employed. In todays economy, all of us who are employed are very fortunate. Again, that is my opinion and its worth just what you paid for it.

Look, I didn't intend on causing a poop storm, my opinion is my opinion. I have been furloughed and I have stood in the unemployment line, it sucked. I got out of line and went out and got a job before i got my first check, then I got another job, then another... until I got this one. I guess I have always been lucky that way. The crap I had to go through to get the unemployment money was not worth the money I was going to get and seemed like work. And it was the kind of work I dont like. I choose to spend my time doing things I like, Flying is one of them. Hell, I will dig ditches before I will go on unemployment. Thats just me.

Good fortune to everyone in this and any other trade in America. These are tough times for sure and they are not going to magically change into good times. Goverment is not the answer, it is a big part of the problem.

Thats all, defensive rant over...

 

[hangarrat]

I apologize for bringing this up again but there's, oh I don't know about 700 of us at NJA that will be looking for work real soon.
I think Avantair has a good model and seems to be doing well just wondering what the deal is with future hiring?
Any info would be great.

to get back on topic:

Avantair posted Financials yesterday:
Avantair, Inc. Reports Fiscal Fourth Quarter and Full Year 2009 Financial Results

Achieves Full Year Operating Profitability and Revenue Growth of 18%

Fourth Quarter Fiscal 2009 Highlights:
-- Total revenues of $34.1 million, an increase of 8.6%, as compared to $31.4 million for the three months ended June 30, 2008. -- Operating loss of $684,000, compared with an operating loss of $2.1 million in the fourth quarter of 2008. -- EBITDA profit (profitable results from operations before depreciation and amortization) of $908,000, compared with an EBITDA loss of $1.3 million in the fourth fiscal quarter of 2008.


I am no financial genius; it looks like we are trending in the right direction.

 

[glasspilot]

I understand what you're saying and I feel the same way about work. I'd much prefer to work too. But there seems to be some stigma about collecting unemployment. It does not come out of the same pot as Welfare and Food Stamps. That's all I was saying.

It's curious that the discussion of unemployment comes up on the thread titled about a company that seems to be the most distant from having it's pilots need that service.

 

[hangarrat]

I agree with you about the stigma, I have felt it myself and did not like the feeling one bit. It must be something I learned while I was growing up.

I am glad I am not currently facing that situation like so many of our friends are. I will be much happier when the people of this country turn this economy around.

 

[realityman]

Buck,

My post was IF you were making NO effort to find work because it was just easier to sit back and collect government money, THEN you are acting unethically.
You say you are trying. I have no reason to doubt you. So while you're trying, collecting unemployment is ABSOLUTELY correct, and precisely what it's there for. You did not choose to be furloughed. But you can choose whether to sit back and do nothing, or keep making an effort. Glad to hear you're making the effort.

m4j2t: Go back and reread my first post. There are a lot of qualifiers in there. I said "IF" many times. Of course he did not choose to be furloughed. Of course he didn't wreck the economy to get furloughed and collect the 'easy' money. If you're furoloughed, I fully understand that's what unemployment compensation is about. But if you're just sitting back and taking the money AND MAKING NO EFFORT TO FIND GAINFUL EMPLOYMENT, all because "Hey, I've been (or my employer has been) paying into the system for years, and it's my right to colect that money.", then I stand by my assertion that it's wrong. Naturally, it's just my opinion. I certainly enjoy a good discussion on the merits of one opinion versus another.

My car analogy was in response to Glass's opinion that he or his employer has been paying into the unemployment insurance for years, so why shouldn't he just sit back and collect? By the same token, why should I take a lower price on my car during trade-in, when I may be able to collect more if I wreck it? I've been paying for car insurance for years, haven't I? It's technically my money, right? Now, if my car is in an accident (something I don't control) then I see no problem with utilizing my insurance. That's what it's there for. Same as unemployment. It's there to keep you afloat while you find new employment. But it's not there to INTENTIONALLY use to sit back and NOT work and make NO EFFORT to find work after a furlough. Sorry if I wasn't more clear in my previous post.

 

[gunfyter]

Reality

I am one of your fans. But I don't think seeking employment should mean you take the first job that comes along whatever the pay. You have the unemployment benefits for a defined period of time. Make the best use of that time to get the best job you can.

Taking an underpaying flying job because you Are on unemployment can lead to declining pilot salaries for everyone.

 

[fischman]

What do you think you should do? Blow unemployment on 100/hr skyhawk rental???

There are a ton of pilots laid off right now, and I doubt 10% have the means to pay for flying. I just don't see the value of spending your family's food money on flying.

In the end, you will get a job based upon who and what you know, not how whether you have 3,672 hrs or 3,674 after renting the local skyhawk for and hour a month..

No need to get fancy with a skyhawk.

Consider it an investment in your future. If I were furloughed, I would maintain my currency. Having said that, do what you think is best for your family.

 

[realityman]

Gun, I didn't know I had any fans. I'm so lonely.:crying:
Actually, knowing a little about your intellectual background I have no choice but to take it as a compliment.:beer:

I suppose it depends on your point of view. I can certainly see where you're coming from, but suppose the really good jobs just aren't available? Perhaps the only job(s) that are available (at least in aviation) are the lower paying ones. So if the pay at a crappy aviation job is the same (or slightly better) than what he'd make on unemployment, he should stay on unemployment?

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. If another job is available where he can at least squeak by, then the unemployment compensation has served its purpose: to prop him up until he can find gainful employment again.

I don't think using unemployment as a psuedo strike-fund (I won't take a crappy job because I want to help improve the industry) is a proper use for it.

If he is living off his own funds, or is finding other, non-taxpayer supported means to live off of, then fine. By all means hold out for the good job so as not to drag the industry down.

Of course, he certainly doesn't have to take a job in aviation. Perhaps he has other interests that could pan out into a nice living?

Hey, if I'm furloughed, come on by my pizza joint! Forget flying!! I'll even front you a pie, free of charge!!!

 

[BeenThereDoneIt]

GLASS: It's curious that the discussion of unemployment comes up on the thread titled about a company that seems to be the most distant from having it's pilots need that service.

ME: Pilots certainly haven't needed it, but 5% of the office-staff did.....WAY before NJ cut their office staff.

 

[glasspilot]

Avantair has never laid off 5% of any work group. We did, almost a year ago, see the economic writing on the wall and start to trim fat. Most notably we procured fuel contracts with national chains. As a current pilot flying the line and not someone throwing stones over a non-flying fence I can say I have seen a huge improvement in the price I pay on the road for fuel as a result.

We also trimmed redundant positions created by our senior acquisition from FlightOptions with the initials TC. This lady did a number on FLOPS and, regrettably, got to us and did a number on us too. I believe the FLOPS pilots here could back me up on this. Anyway, at no time did Avantair axe 5% of any group.

We did, however, have the benefit of letting one pissed off FO go. Unfortunately, he has decided to occupy his time going after the company that took a chance on him and his inexperience because, in his eyes, the world economy failing was a direct assault on his upgrade and who better to blame than Avantair? If he can't be a Captain at Avantair then darn it...everyone should know how crap they are! It's a tad inconvieniant that if he had upgraded then he'd still be at Avantair. Don't let that distract you from his message about how bad it was though.

Hey, I have and idea. How about, like a man, you stand by your decision to leave and...well...ya know...leave.

 

[mainiac]

Hey, I have and idea. How about, like a man, you stand by your decision to leave and...well...ya know...leave.

Second the motion...give it a rest

 

[RTRHD]

If he can't be a Captain at Avantair then darn it...everyone should know how crap they are!

Well maybe Yall need a union. There helping us..OK this is supposed to be funny.

 

[BlueNose]

We also trimmed redundant positions created by our senior acquisition from FlightOptions with the initials TC. This lady did a number on FLOPS and, regrettably, got to us and did a number on us too. I believe the FLOPS pilots here could back me up on this.

She was quite an empire builder at FO. Didn't care much for pilots, though. She made vendor deals that made her look great with the boss, but hurt the company and po'ed a bunch of folks who had to live with the terms. She struck the deals with our crew hotels to get rid of free breakfasts for our crews to save $5 a room night - great move all around, for both productivity and pilot morale. Didn't check with anyone from Flight or Ops before doing it, either - real team player. MS loved her. I hear she's at XO now, wonder what they think of her?

 

[corpflunkie]

My condolences go out to the XOJet folks if that is where she went.

 

[myrealnameis]

She was quite an empire builder at FO. Didn't care much for pilots, though. She made vendor deals that made her look great with the boss, but hurt the company and po'ed a bunch of folks who had to live with the terms. She struck the deals with our crew hotels to get rid of free breakfasts for our crews to save $5 a room night - great move all around, for both productivity and pilot morale. Didn't check with anyone from Flight or Ops before doing it, either - real team player. MS loved her. I hear she's at XO now, wonder what they think of her?

She's at XO Jet.....that is a mistake they will regret. Nothing but a trail of crap left in her wake.