XJT forces 47 PAX to sleep aboard aircraft in Rochester, MN?

[COOPERVANE]

Got to be more to the story! I hope one of the pilots come on here to explain what happened.

 

[cldsfr79]

This plane (E145) does have air stairs right? Even if ever gate was occupied, they could have called the airport police or airport operations, have the plane parked by a gate, and escort the passengers off the plane. The jet bridges do have stairs right? The police and airport ops have codes to all those airport doors. The passengers could have even been escorted through a operations area and into the terminal if they weren't provided access to a jet bridge/gate. There is no reason why these people had to sit on the plane. When you are a captain, this is the time to problem solve. Even if the ramp agents aren't there to help or someone says no to an idea, figure something out.

When I used to fly with a regional, we had a situation where all the gates were full do to outbound delays and it was going to be well over an hour wait for a gate. Within minutes we were on the phone with the airport ops (not our airline ops) to figuring out a new plan to offload our passengers at another location/gate area. About 15 minutes later we were deplaning our passengers. You have to think outside the box.

Were these guys getting paid "block or better"?

In regards to comments about mainline carriers distancing themselves from regionals when a regional gets in trouble: The regionals are contracted to fly for the mainline on their behalf. Regionals are told where to fly, when to fly and what equipment to fly. The operational control is conducted by the regional staff. Training, dispatching, and decisions are made by the regional airline. Anytime an accident or incident occurs with a regional, it is there operational responsibilty. The mainline carrier didn't cause the plane to crash or to strand passengers on the plane, it was the regional airlines operational issue. You better believe that if a situation occurs the mainline would point fingers.

 

[Booker]

This plane (E145) does have air stairs right?

No, this particular one did not.

 

[lowspeed]

What the heck was this crew thinking? Ive done this before, winter storm in CLE ice moved in and MU wouldnt allow us to land, headed to alt. after talking to dx, landed, nobody around. Headed to FBO, called dx, got fuel, deiced, loaded plane 3 hours later to head to cle. Now i know i am a stupid GIA grad, and I fly a 1900, and I cant make decsions! How is it that I was able to figure all this out, and myself and company made the right calls organized TSA to meet the pax at the plane in CLE and clear them. Why dont captains take more responsibilty and make a decision? But I know, I know, GIA causes all accidents, poor pilots, and I bought job and blah blah blah. How the hell is it that i can do all this at just over 900 hours pic 121, first year in the ne winter ops, and others cant figure out to think on their own? Great book called Milkshake Moment I suggested all captains read it! wow want a rant!

Mommy and daddy must be so proud.

 

[DrewBlows]

Common Sense would have let them taxi over to the FBO and unlaod the passengers, but there would be such severe penalites for that action that it was not attempted.

I won't get into security protocol on a public forum except to say unloading at an FBO is not a security violation. Even if it were, Captains emergency authority overrides any minor security concerns. This is not a TSA issue, it's a customer service issue.

In my opinion, the Captain, ExpressJet, and Continental, in that order, screwed up. There is no air-stairs on an ExpressJet EMB145, but there are ways to unload the airplane if you are motivated and creative. A borrowed belt-loader would have been an option...not a great option...but an option nevertheless.

 

[pilotyip]

Again it looks like common sense was in short order.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

The question is why do they do this. They do this so as for you to devalue yourself and to slowly condition you to believe that you are not worth more than any other group, thus, you shouldn't seek better compensation or working conditions (bottom line). A myth you think? I beg to differ. Today, gate agents have way more power than Captains. If you don't comply, a couple of trips to the Chief's office and most fall in line. Other employee groups, especially gate agents have been instructed or conditioned to write up flight crews when their demands are not met. They have effectively become management tools to degrade our expectations.

I couldn't agree more. Humans/workers are widely manipulated with the guidence of industrial psychologists.

 

[cldsfr79]

No, this particular one did not.

Ok. Was ever gate occupied? If all the gates were, with coordination from another airline and/or airport ops, an empty parked plane could have been pushed off a gate temporarily while the Express Jet unloaded. OR air-stairs could have been driven out to the plane while it sat some where.

Just thinking outside the box.

The Express Jet name brand airline went out of business right? Huh, that's odd.

 

[brokedash]

I find that hard to believe.

Maybe you're thinking about letting them back on after they've left the aircraft.

Everyone could of been re-ticketed, and baggage rescanned in the morning.
XJT crew failed their pax.

Exactly, the problem isn't getting off, it is about getting back on, esp. if the pax have left the sterile area. The rest of it is just the stuff related to rebookings and such and if the airline has CSC at that airport.

 

[SoCentralRain]

Again it looks like common sense was in short order.

I think you meant "short supply."

Again, TSA had nothing to do with this one.

SCR

 

[erikgigem]

Colossal failure of leadership - both crew and dispatch. Huge black-eye for both ExpressJet, Continental Airlines, Regionals, and the airline industry. Imagine if your elderly parents or young wife with your baby was on that airplane..

Sometimes flying can get so routine, and crews can get jaded that it leads some crew-members to forget that their are living, breathing humans in the back of the airplane. Moms, parents, wives, babies, grandparents, brothers, sisters, handicapped, UMs. Customer service has to be a priority behind safety for the crew.

 

[fletch717]

Its 100 percent the captains fault. If you are afraid to make a decision then use your cell phone and call someone who can. I can get a senior VP on the phone within an hour. No airline exec would have let that go on had they known about it.

 

[jppt2000]

Ask any Pilot..we've all seen cases where the dispatchers gives us one of those great alternates on the other side of the 300 mile long line of Thunderstorms that has all the great services available but then doesn't let us know on how he was planning for us to get there.

You guys can Monday morning quarterback this crap for another 3 pages, fact is, none of us were there and therefore have no idea what was tried or what went down!

Easy to say stop MM quarterbacking, but 6 hours?
Nope, sorry, this crew failed their pax.

 

[FORESTGUMP]

gutless captain.

 

[SoCentralRain]

Really, the more I think about it, the more it becomes clear that the captain has some serious explaining to do. And what about the F/O? I heard he was a sharp guy. Express Jet can point fingers all they want at RST Airport Authority, the TSA, CO, dispatchers...but those 4 stripes on the captain's shoulders are a lot heavier sometimes. Seems to me she couldn't take the weight of them. Makes all airline crews look like clueless chumps. The whole truth better come out soon.

Even Jetblue with their infamous "jetblooper" on Feb 14 2007 got on the offensive and made things better. Let's hope Express Jet and CO do the same. Take the personal responsibility. That goes for you, too "c"aptain...

SCR

 

[TimsKeeper]

Fbo

Leave the Captain alone, she was just trying to avoid the Signature fees and fuel prices at any and ALL cost!

 

[OUPilot]

so what would have happened if a pass in an exit row opened the exit and people started leaving after say 3 hours?

 

[rumorhasit]

XJT seems to take off no matter what. When SWA is not leaving HOU for DAL but XJT does from IAH DAL then holds for 2 hours with a DVRT to Waco it makes you think. Massive lines of Texas T-storms but good ol XJT takes off. I mean serious do you have Captains or does ops run you? I have seen it over and over here in Texas. So this "incident" does not surprise me.

Continental Pays XJT by completion factor!!!!

 

[rumorhasit]

Most pilots have no idea what happens before or after passengers get in the big tube of recycled air, so by the book and recommendation by SOCC is all they had to go on. I have a guess what the crew and SOCC was hoping and wishing for...a release time for their final destination. The Crew probably had a while before they turned into a pumkin and Dispatch was hoping for a break in the weather. Either way the sit time went way too long, and my question is how did the crew leave roc legal? Did XJT fly another crew to continue the leg? As I recall 6 hrs is not anywhere legal rest, unless its a standup....?

 

[pipejockey]

What time did this diversion take place? It seems as if it were late night. Unless there was a steady state thunderstorm stalled over MSP for quite a while, which is unlikely, how long did they hold before diverted to RST? And how much hold fuel did they have? Late at night there shouldn't have been that many aircraft holding in front them. In addition, I have never encountered a so called "line of thunderstorms" that I couldn't thread my way through.

One of the problems with these RJ kids is that they have only ever flown for the regionals aside from some fair weather flight instructing. And they have never experienced the kind of weather a freight dawg has likely encountered many times over in the middle of night. It never ceases to amaze me how many times, while flying through some areas of weather, ATC asks me how the ride is, or what the flight conditions are at my location, because 90% of everyone else had been diverting. And usually the ride is acceptable! Too many people diverting around friggin clouds! And then our joke of an ATC system gets overburdened with aircraft off route and on headings, then come the holds, edcts, and ground stops! Many people here have suggested growing balls, and I agree! Stay out of the red and yellow and you'll be no worse for wear. Trust me, I'm still alive, and I don't fly through the kind of stuff I did when I was a freight dawg.