Pinnacle gets TA

[20sx]

You will be able to refuse JA similar to how we can refuse extensions now.

There are other companies that get by fine with either JA or extensions. If they make the price right, there are pilots volunteering to do either.

 

[dondk]

You will be able to refuse JA similar to how we can refuse extensions now.

I don't know if I would go THAT far.

Prior to LOA 05-03 you had unlimited extension refusals, that was given up for ASAP and FOQA.

The highlights are down to 2 days per month and down to 9 days per year (from current LOA 03-01).

Anything over 48 hours is now fair game. A pilot must CONSENT is now there(like that means anything), with the allowance to decline 1 per month or 6 in a year. Although, if you exceed that, absent compelling reasons you are looking at a LOW.

Right now you have unlimited JA refusals under 72 hours. JA's refusals were given up for what?

I never understood why give up something that is unlimited to something that is now limited.

 

[JustaNumber]

Prior to LOA 05-03 you had unlimited extension refusals, that was given up for ASAP and FOQA.

You had to give stuff up to get some well-proven safety programs that benefit the company as much if not more than they benefit you? Your management sucks!

 

[dondk]

Correction to my post.

Currently you cannot "refuse" a JA, you can be unavailable (unlimited times) for a JA less than 72 hours. The new language now allows for an outright refusal.

It was a all or none deal, 3 LOA's as a package. ASAP and FOQA were desired by the union, extension language by the company. The ASAP program has been pulled by the union a few times. Mgmt has stated they would love to see it go away. Raw FOQA data was used to fire a pilot about a year ago.

Basically all of those LOA's could be considered a failure.

 

[73belair]

Correction to my post.

Currently you cannot "refuse" a JA, you can be unavailable (unlimited times) for a JA less than 72 hours. The new language now allows for an outright refusal.

It was a all or none deal, 3 LOA's as a package. ASAP and FOQA were desired by the union, extension language by the company. The ASAP program has been pulled by the union a few times. Mgmt has stated they would love to see it go away. Raw FOQA data was used to fire a pilot about a year ago.

Basically all of those LOA's could be considered a failure.

ASAP and FOQA are about to be required by the FAA. Glad your union fought for that one! ASA signed a contract and then worried about dealing with ASAP, which BTW benefits the company as much as the pilots.

 

[callowayhd]

will i get more than 11 days off every month?

and anything more than a 10 hour overnight?

 

[20sx]

Actually, I meant to say other companies do fine WITHOUT JA's or extensions.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Isn't that the point of reserves though??

To continuously abuse 15% of your pilot force as second class citizens?

 

[pipejockey]

will i get more than 11 days off every month?

and anything more than a 10 hour overnight?

You apparently don't work for PCL!! I guess you didn't hear the CEO before congress stating that the average days off are 16 days and that they have crew schedulers work with the pilots creating trips that provide for adequate rest! I have a feeling you are jealous and were probably turned down by PCL and would love to work there!

 

[XJohXJ]

Isn't that the point of reserves though??

No, that is absolutely not the point of reserves. If any union treats a segment as "less than" or "second class" or "available for outright abuse", that union opens itself up to equal protection action.

Reserves have every same right to QOL, pay, and safe scheduling as any other pilot. Period.

 

[Raoul Duke]

You have absolutely no understanding of how DFR claims work. Reserves do not have the same rights as lineholders period. They are on call for trips (which must be legal trips) and do not have same schedule benefits as lineholders. DFR has nothing to do with this. If you want a primer on DFR claims, take a look at USAPA, they do an excelent job of showing how to breach the duty of fair representation.

 

[XJohXJ]

Yeah, your right. I overspoke on that one. Gotta stop coming here. However, reserves are there to cover flying. Not to be abused.

 

[Grinder10]

I don't know if I would go THAT far.

Prior to LOA 05-03 you had unlimited extension refusals, that was given up for ASAP and FOQA.

The highlights are down to 2 days per month and down to 9 days per year (from current LOA 03-01).

Anything over 48 hours is now fair game. A pilot must CONSENT is now there(like that means anything), with the allowance to decline 1 per month or 6 in a year. Although, if you exceed that, absent compelling reasons you are looking at a LOW.

Right now you have unlimited JA refusals under 72 hours. JA's refusals were given up for what?

I never understood why give up something that is unlimited to something that is now limited.

All I had heard was that we will be able to refuse JA's. I will read the whole agreement before I vote, but at this point I have very little faith that it will be worth a damn. And besides the fact that the $10 mill signing bonus is completely inadequate, this split payment b.s. will not work.

 

[FightingIrish]

I thought Obama was going to fix this with the NMB? PCL128 what are your thoughts? Shouldn't things be better than under the Bush NMB? I am hearing this is worse than the ASA contract. What the heck? Why?

 

[PCL_128]

I thought Obama was going to fix this with the NMB? PCL128 what are your thoughts? Shouldn't things be better than under the Bush NMB? I am hearing this is worse than the ASA contract. What the heck? Why?

Things are better under the Obama NMB. Much better. There are several issues here, though.

1. PCL ALPA had the same issue that Mesa did about 7 years ago: scope. The Colgan operation is hanging over their heads. An arbitrator ruled in their favor, but he refused to enforce the ruling by requiring the company to integrate the lists. In order to fix it, they had to negotiate for it. Scope takes a lot of bargaining leverage.

2. A huge amount of the agreement was already TA'd under the old Bush NMB when they didn't have a whole lot of leverage at all. Once a new NMB comes in you can't just pull old TAs off the table. They're already done. Once you've accepted something like 75% deadhead pay to try to move the process along when the NMB isn't helping you, you can't take it back once you've got a more favorable NMB.

3. The contract was so horrible in the first place that it was never reasonable to expect an industry-leading contract to come out of these negotiations. You guys had an industry-average agreement and were trying to make improvements from that. The Pinnacle guys were starting from 10 steps back, and there was just no way they could catch up in a single agreement. They had to fix something as basic as block-or-better, for heaven's sake!

Overall, the contract may not be great, but it is pretty good. And let's be honest: if they reject it, they'll probably be parked and spend another 1-2 years in bargaining. That's certainly a choice they can make, but I hope they make it with the full knowledge that they'll be waiting a long while for a new deal.