Discussion with the V.P @ Skywest. ASA lookout

[Speedtape]

Nevets,
I can name plenty of things ALPA has done including their lobby on better and safer rules for aviation. I believe in this climate today with things being as fluid as they even in good times, ALPA can not and shown they have no desire to bend to the pressure of the market. That to me is how it has become broken. ALPA IS NOT A UNION! It is a loose association and should conduct itself as such instead of how it does today.

It can be fixed and I'd like to run for office, but I'd tarred, feathered and run out on a rusty rail. There are simply too many militant guys that will take the majority down that road because they don't want to get tossed into the RJDC pot. Because everyone knows, if you don't agree with ALPA, well you must be a RJDC guy.

I don't think you answered Nevjets questions. What exactly do YOU stand for? What would you do different?

 

[Speedtape]

Good analysis Speedtape, with one problem, you are up against the DAL 70-76 seat scope clause cap at 255 airframes. So unless they use a bunch of fifties, no dice.

Don't sweat the small details! Everything is for sale.

 

[enuffalready]

IF UNITED FAILS>>>>>>>>>that is the question!

If United fails:
1. Mesa fails.
2. Republic could fail.
3. Any commuter that does business with UAL could fail---except for Skywest

If United fails and most of the associated feeders fail:
1. Mesa will no longer be in existence to feed Delta or USAIR.
2. Republic will be hurt, but it looks like they are attempting to take actions to have some alternate plan.

If United and the United feeders fail--except for Skywest:

1. Delta will need new feed, because Mesa will go away.
2. SKywest will be ready to provide replacement feed.
3. USAir will need immediate feed in Phoenix and where ever else Mesa feeds them.
4. Skywest will be there in a heart beat to replace Mesa.
5. Delta will grow overnight in LAX to replace the vacuum of UAL.
6. Delta will need immediate feed and Skywest can simply change sides of the airport.


If UAL goes out of business, it could be the best thing that ever happened for Skywest and Skywest, Inc. It may be a bump in the road, but it will be better in the long run and they have plenty of cash to make the transition.

For all you ASA "Doom and Gloomers," Skywest, Inc. will not grow Skywest by cannablizing ASA--a money maker! What would that accomplish? My guess is that they are waiting for UAL to die, then Mesa, and to plug into the new world order that will be created. Heck, ASA may even get a few crumbs from the table.

For all you Musers out there: The question to ponder: Are the recent domicile changes any kind of reallignment for the enevitable in the industry and the hypotheticals presented? Should this happen, how would the future crew bases be affected?

Skywest, Inc. will survive a UAL failure--and survive well. They are ready, well financed, and ready to move. I am quite sure the plan is in place.

do you honestly think the BHO is going to allow chicago based united to fold? seriously? you know know how many union voters in illinois would lose their jobs? keep speculating about UAL liquidation all you want but it aint gonna happen.

 

[enuffalready]

and yes, I do believe that skywest would continue to grow at the expense of ASA. Now, asa wont completely go away because they dont want the oo pilots getting too big for their britches, but i would not be suprised if ASA had less that 1000 pilots in 4-5 years.

 

[Tarzan]

What exactly do you mean by "no desire to bend to the pressure of the market" and "ALPA IS NOT A UNION! It is a loose association?"

I'm not trying to start a p1ssing contest. However, read that words, man! You're starting to making posts like Rez.

Why don't you tell me how it is a real union with uniform work rules and wages. Why don't you show me how ALPA has altered their stance in the face of a changing market place. You're the guy that that defends ALPA and generally does it fairly well. You tell me where I am wrong. I have my notions and I'd like you tell me instead of the typical mantra of questioning anyone who doesn't fall into line. This doesn't help ALPA's cause one bit in my perspective, it only reenforces it just as it does with others who think like I do.

If you guy's like Speedtape who vehemently defend ALPA would read my posts, you'd see I am not thrilled with the idea of no representation. However, I feel you ALPA's leaders have grown to comfortable in their postions of power and pestige. First of all, Speedtape, you need a valium. You take this crap whay to personal. Second, I'd impose term limits of twice around on everyone. This includes volunteers that have been particular posts at the LEC level as well or at least reduce some of the perks. I want volunteers who truly care about what they do and are not in it for the bennies Thirdly, I'd get National out the negotiation business. That is for the MEC and LEC level. I liken this sorta to the federal government telling a state what to do with it's own money.

 

[CFI2766]

do you honestly think the BHO is going to allow chicago based united to fold? seriously? you know know how many union voters in illinois would lose their jobs? keep speculating about UAL liquidation all you want but it aint gonna happen.

Well, yes. BHO would allow United to fail. His polls are sliding backward as of late, and it has almost everything to do with the enormous debt that he is piling on the US. No airline will be too big to fail, I suspect. Even United.

 

[Speedtape]

I'm not trying to start a p1ssing contest. However, read that words, man! You're starting to making posts like Rez.

Why don't you tell me how it is a real union with uniform work rules and wages. Why don't you show me how ALPA has altered their stance in the face of a changing market place. You're the guy that that defends ALPA and generally does it fairly well. You tell me where I am wrong. I have my notions and I'd like you tell me instead of the typical mantra of questioning anyone who doesn't fall into line. This doesn't help ALPA's cause one bit in my perspective, it only reenforces it just as it does with others who think like I do.
You want a meaningful debate? I'm up for the challenge. Look at your paystub. It starts there. Would you prefer to be at GoJets? Do you think your company was benevolent and is just handing over the money because you are such a nice guy? Next, look at your contract and the work rules, especially in the scheduling section. Then call one of your buddies at GoJet or even Contiental, and compare! You may be further enlightened. Your contract, ASA ALPA negotiated, embodies your uniform work rules and wage schedule. Would you rather just let your Company decide what you are going to make? In regard to ALPA's stance(on what?), give the specific concern that you have, instead of some obscure allegation. I want my Union to be somewhat flexible, to be able to address and adjust to changing marketing conditions and management tactics. The inflexibilty of some Unions, gets them in trouble in the long run. Is ALPA perfect, NO,NO,NO--but it has advanced safety, pay, and working conditions in our Profession. Make an argument against that, if you can. If you are one of those people that have to have everything perfect and completely in in order to engage, then for sure you are in the wrong profession. When you fly your flights, even with standard procedures and checklists, does everything go perfect every flight? No, but you seem intelligent enough that you can make adjustments and resolve inflight issues to continue to your destination safely. ALPA is not perfect--it is run by imperfect human beings. However, in the absence of anything else, it offers structure and tools to it's members at various airlines so that each ALPA Pilot group can advance their pay and work rules with their respective Company, that is specific to that Pilot Group' s needs. Contracts are not static documents, but documents that evolve and advance with each negotiation. Have you worked for a non ALPA carrier, or at any other aviation job? How did that work for you?

Your Union, on a National level, is engaged and participating in the FAA proposed rules changing committee that will be adopting flight and duty time changes that will affect you and your profession for a long time in your career. Also at the table, is the ATA and RAA which represents Airline Managements. Would you rather not have a seat at the table? Not ME! You can catch it on C-Span, if you really have an interest in an issue that will have a significant impact on your career. Our Union is at the table, and I am confident that our interests will be well represented.

Please be specific in what your ALPA issues are. ALPA is not perfect, but neither is my Government, the elected public officials, Management Execs, Our President, Boy Scouts of America, your Preacher or Priest(if faith is part your life,) Any Church, Movie Stars, our Parents and Grandparents, our children, and lastly US. So does that mean that we just take our toys and go home? No--You accept imperfection in people and institutions, you hold them accountable, and you use your INTELLIGENCE to make the system work for you. In the end--Nothing has to be Perfect to still make it work for you--especially when there is no other viable options.

If you guy's like Speedtape who vehemently defend ALPA would read my posts, you'd see I am not thrilled with the idea of no representation.
Your charge of no representation is a mis-characterization. Go back an read my first response. Do you accept and cash your paycheck? Do you benefit from the contractual work rules? If you violate an FAR or are called on the carpet for discipline--are you going to go it alone? You don't have to!
However, I feel you ALPA's leaders have grown to comfortable in their postions of power and pestige. First of all, Speedtape, you need a valium. You take this crap whay to personal.
Yes I take it personal. I am passionate about it. I know from first hand experience that My Pilot Group is much better off with ALPA than they were without it. I was here for both chapters. Pilots that have been here have made the sacrifices to make it a better place to work--for ourselves, but also for those who followed--including YOU. I understand that you could not have the same perspective. I have had bad jobs in my career, without Union representation. I can tell you that this has become a good job--because of ALPA, and maybe sometimes inspite of ALPA and it's imperfection. However, MY pilot group and it's ALPA leaders never quit and have worked tirelessly to make contractual improvements--that YOU enjoy, and for that reason, I will take it personal.
Second, I'd impose term limits of twice around on everyone. This includes volunteers that have been particular posts at the LEC level as well or at least reduce some of the perks.
Term limits? How many people are standing in line to step up to the plate? Sometimes, and this is one of them, STABILITY and experience are much more important than forcing a turnover. Have you volunteered?
I want volunteers who truly care about what they do and are not in it for the bennies
Maybe, you should get to know some of the volunteers. I think you might find that most care--they aren't doing it for the money--because it is a volunteer job and pays nothing. What are the bennies?
Thirdly, I'd get National out the negotiation business. That is for the MEC and LEC level. I liken this sorta to the federal government telling a state what to do with it's own money.

With all due respect, your MEC has a negotiating team, comprised of your fellow line pilots, who best know your pilot group's issues. Those issues are identified prior to negotiations through scientific surveys and polling. It provides their roadmap. That group negotiates Your contract--by the way, it's the same at every other airline.

It seems that you may want to get better informed on the workings of your Union, before you go off making broad allegations and misinformed statements. Please understand, I am not attacking you. I would prefer that you seek the truth on your own, know the history of ALPA, and even more important, know the history of ALPA on your property. In addition, get engaged and volunteer--that will provide insight that will enforce a new perspective of your views of ALPA.

 

[FORESTGUMP]

If its great, and ALPA negotiated for it, and you agree that was right to do that, then you are contradicting yourself when you say you dont like anything about ALPA. Can you give me your top three specific reasons for not like ALPA? And can you give me two other things you think ALPA has done right?

In my opinion alpa negotiated that little jewel thinking they would not transfer planes because they wouldn't want union minded pilots over at skywest. It was purely an accident that it could work out well for those of us that would like to escape socialism. Myself and many others would transfer tomorrow without thinking about it if we held relative seniority and got out from under alpa.

Aside from that issue I can think of far more issues I disagree with alpa than agree. 100 to 1 at least. But then again I'm confident in my ability to do my job well and without getting myself into trouble by being stupid/arrogant/lazy/wild/etc.....

Here to hoping skywest will make the offer at some point:beer:

 

[sweptback]

In my opinion alpa negotiated that little jewel thinking they would not transfer planes because they wouldn't want union minded pilots over at skywest. It was purely an accident that it could work out well for those of us that would like to escape socialism. Myself and many others would transfer tomorrow without thinking about it if we held relative seniority and got out from under alpa.

The CNC negotiated that "little jewel" because the company said NO to one list (which was on the table first) and any meaningful steps towards that. They did, however, agree to fragmentation language which protects both the ASA and SkyWest pilots, as well as any future SkyWest subsidiary (if there ever is one).

The bigger question is, since you are so anti-union, why did you ever come to ASA? We've been a union carrier for a long time. SkyWest was hiring up until just about a year ago, why did you never go there? Personally, even after all this crap we are dealing with, I think ASA is a pretty good place to work.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Speedtape is partially correct...but now the "rest of the story".....

Yes ALPA is responsible for the above industry pay and workrules here at ASA....As was ALPA responsible for the same above industry pay and workrules at Comair, Air Wisconsin, Allegany, Piedmont, and ACA....What Speedtape leaves out, is something he also understands very well...ALPA has largely failed and has actually helped contribute to the competition amongst fellow ALPA "brothers" for flying. The great contracts they help negotiate are then used against those same members as their flying is given to another group of pilots....many times belonging to the same union.

Like him, I too was here during the "dark days" of ASA....Those days are gone and this isn't the same ASA. Like him, I too used to be a huge ALPA cheerleader and actually believed that "ALPA speaks for me and I tell them what to say". After many years of ALPA work and industry observation, I have come to the conclusion that ALPA is more detrimental than it is beneficial in OUR situation.

When Jerry purchased ASA (thankfully I might add)...I said that ALPA is going to have to play ball with Jerry, or he will take his ball home....I stand by that statement....Our choices are to work with him or against him....I don't think anyone is going to like the latter...

I want to make as much money as possible, and have as much time off as possible....but first and foremost is having the job in the first place....

One other point to add to Speedtape's glowing remarks about ALPA....Yes ALPA is working on the new duty time and rest rules....however the result will very likely lead to a decrease in quality of life for those who like to have as much time at home as possible.....

Was ALPA necessary here at ASA at one time? Absolutely!
Has ALPA done some good things? Absolutely!
Is ALPA necessary here now? No

I have never seen the perception of ALPA as bad as it is now here at ASA...You ALPA cheerleaders have your work cut out for you....