Video from CNBC-Santulli CEO NetJets

[gret]

Private Jet Industry's Rough Ride

http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=1140335760&play=1
​

 

[GSXR600]

Man......I dont fly for NJ but this guy is 100% right.... the F********g press......ahhh I hate them.

 

[GSXR600]

Great thing he told them right on their face!

 

[QOL_is_great:)]

Education is the key to the general public and their understanding of the fractional industry. The media certainly doesn't help and sadly the general population only believes what they are told to them from the media.

As an example; if the media did a story tomorrow about how bad the chemical BPA really is and where it's found then we see a drop in products bought or used with BPA for a few weeks. Then another story would come along and it would be the new flavor of the week for the news outlets.

Things will turn around in time, but when that time will happen upon us is still to be seen.

 

[av8trinabarrel]

Man......I dont fly for NJ but this guy is 100% right.... the F********g press......ahhh I hate them.

I can't stop laughing at these supposed jorunalists stumbling over themselves, trying to ask a question. One guy gets half way through a question and then the other bumbling idiot chimes in with another painful attempt to get in his $.02 worth. These people are a microcosm of what is wrong with the entire left wing and most of the right wing media. These people are nothing more than hacks with a microphone and our ever growing population of illiterates and degenerates think they speak the truth. RTS would have been better off with the likes of Jon Stewart...At least he speaks the truth. Wait.... uhhhh nevermind!

I'm very thankful that RTS is at the helm of our company and hope that the leaders of other companies follow suit and get the word out that business jets are not the problem with this country.

 

[Captainzero1]

80% of the flights are more for personal reasons and 30% for business is the true breakdown. Go hang out in PBI.MVY.ACK,ASE,TEX, etc. and tell me otherwise.

 

[brokeflyer]

oh well that's great news...things wont be as bad as we thought then.

 

[7777]

80% of the flights are more for personal reasons and 30% for business is the true breakdown. Go hang out in PBI.MVY.ACK,ASE,TEX, etc. and tell me otherwise.

IF that is true, SO WHAT!!!! This is still America right? How about the media just do their damned job and report the news instead of being the political activists that they have all become?

 

[netjetwife]

Mr Santulli did a good job standing up for the industry and educating the public, starting with the interviewers. I feel pretty confident that they finally got it because they invited RTS back again. The fracs could all use the publicity so surely he'll go on the program again.

RTS mentioned the Joint Preventive Measures Campaign and the fact that NJA is the only frac that hasn't furloughed, yet. Wouldn't it be great if they didn't have to (because enough pilots and other employees opted to help) and Mr Santulli was able to promote the JPMC ideas in his next interview at CNBC? If you haven't already, NJA/I employees, please let the company know your intentions so that they can make plans accordingly. If you've been holding back, not sure they really need the help, please reconsider. The entire economy is hurting and we don't want to dump hundreds of NJ pilots on the street just because some of you were waiting for management to get their house in order first...:erm: It's time to pull together in the best StrongUnion tradition of looking out for one another. Please vote (opt in) to save jobs! NJW

 

[realityman]

Ahhhhh NJWife! For the first time, I have to call bad form on you! Your closing statements in your post are completely out of line.

Our own union leadership and officials have made it a point NOT to campaign to push the JPM's on anyone. And they have repeated over and over and over ad nauseum that they would like it if no one else did either.

Many threads on our own message boards have been headed off by Brian Ward when it appeared that one individual or another was asking folks to take advantage of these measures, or someone would express "disappointment" that not everyone was doing his/her part.

Now here you are on a public message board doing exactly what they've asked us not to do.

While I understand your passion towards this issue, I think it would be best to respect the wishes of our union officers. Perhaps your post would have been better served by concluding with "Please take the time to read and understand the Joint Preventative Measures, and make an informed decision on what you can or can't do."

Asking people directly to take advantage of the JPM's is contrary to what the union has advised us about doing.

 

[pilot125]

Awwww come on realityman, give us a break, we all know that netjets wife means well with what she has said. I don't have any problem with any of it. I'm at the bottom of the seniority list and I highly encourage everyone to take part in the voluntary measures. In fact, I'll take it one step further, who in their right mind would OPT OUT??? And yes, I'm dead f-ing serious! I'm not asking anyone to take a reduced sched, nor longer vacations, extra unpaid days off...........but my gosh, to OPT OUT??? Now that pisses me off.

 

[rettofly]

RTS mentioned the Joint Preventive Measures Campaign and the fact that NJA is the only frac that hasn't furloughed, yet

Has Avantair had a furlough that hasn't made the news?

 

[realityman]

pilot125,

I never said NJW's intentions were bad. I said she, who is a huge proponent of the union and its accomplishments, is doing something against what our union officials have recommended.

Hey, it's a public message board. Opinions are allowed to be expressed. you can certainly do the same. In fact, I believe you just did so.

The real question is, is it a good idea to do so. The kind of sentiments you are expressing, while legitimate and, again, well-intentioned, could prove to be very divisive in the end. And that's exactly why our union officials have asked us not to do so. If you can't see the reasoning behind it, then I can't help you and we probably will not have as unified a group on this as you'd hope for.

I think everyone should do what they can. But it's up to each individual to decide what he/she can or cannot do under their own personal economic conditions. Pressuring them to do something through expressions of "encouragement" or threats of anger towards your fellow pilot will not accomplish what you're hoping for. You can't see why anyone would opt out? I can think of a dozen legitimate reasons off the top of my head.

We can do this all day. But I'm not going to. You can choose to take the advice of our elected officials (and that's all it is, advice), or you can do your own thing and hope for the best. But I think our union is already trying for the best outcome, so maybe they have some good reasons to ask us not to push this thing.

But do what you like. It is a public message board where opinions are allowed to be expressed. That's all I've got to say on the subject. Let's hope we're both still talking about these things a year from now as NJ's employees.:beer:

 

[BeeDubya]

RTS mentioned the Joint Preventive Measures Campaign and the fact that NJA is the only frac that hasn't furloughed, yet

Has Avantair had a furlough that hasn't made the news?

Not that I'm aware of. I'm guessing RTS views other jet fractionals as competition and does not count prop operators as competing for the same customers.

 

[o2bflyn]

80% of the flights are more for personal reasons and 30% for business is the true breakdown. Go hang out in PBI.MVY.ACK,ASE,TEX, etc. and tell me otherwise.

Come on, don't you think these people have some form of their business/corporations near their vacation homes. That's how you make a personal trip into a business trip.

Even if they are driving around on vacation all the time.....so what. They pay for the aircraft, they can use it however they want.

80+30=110%......just thought I would help you out with that one.....no charge.

 

[RNObased]

80% of the flights are more for personal reasons and 30% for business is the true breakdown. Go hang out in PBI.MVY.ACK,ASE,TEX, etc. and tell me otherwise.

Really, you know this how??? Your own poll, or is it possible that you have access to all the data that RTS has, which I very seriously doubt?? I will go with RTS' numbers over your numbers, which I suspect are garbage.

BTW, learn to add.

 

[RNObased]

Awwww come on realityman, give us a break, we all know that netjets wife means well with what she has said. I don't have any problem with any of it. I'm at the bottom of the seniority list and I highly encourage everyone to take part in the voluntary measures. In fact, I'll take it one step further, who in their right mind would OPT OUT??? And yes, I'm dead f-ing serious! I'm not asking anyone to take a reduced sched, nor longer vacations, extra unpaid days off...........but my gosh, to OPT OUT??? Now that pisses me off.

Ignore NJW when you don't feel like a dose of Kool-Aid that is what a lot of us do.

Now, you can get all sorts of pissed off if you want, but it doesn't change the fact that people are OPTing out. A lot of them.

 

[gutshotdraw]

Okay people. One week to go. Any ballpark percentage on the early out from the A side? Most recent consensus over here is right at 10%. Not sure how many others are taking short leaves although one friend told me two weeks ago he's taking a year to go surf Down Under. Nice.

 

[RNObased]

Okay people. One week to go. Any ballpark percentage on the early out from the A side? Most recent consensus over here is right at 10%. Not sure how many others are taking short leaves although one friend told me two weeks ago he's taking a year to go surf Down Under. Nice.

Don't think it will get close to 10%, more like 6 or 7%. The number I heard that have turned in the early out paper work at this point isn't good. But there will probably be a rush at the end of the time period or one can hope.

 

[jtf]

So far about 250 pilots have done the poll on the union web site. 7% early out. 33% reduced schedule. 4% 1 year LOA. 4% 3 year LOA. 66% opt in. The problem is who knows if this is a real representative account of the over all pilot population at NJA. There really isn't that high a percentage of pilots who regularly go on that message board so it is hard to say that those percentages will hold true for the entire group. If they do hold true that will be around 200 pilots at NJA getting the early out and a hopefully enough overall participation to avoid furloughs. At least the company will let us know how many actually do the early out and will most likely give a strong suggestion as to how many more would be wise to take the 3 year LOA or face possible furlough before that LOA bid must be in.

 

[amaineiac]

Don't think it will get close to 10%, more like 6 or 7%. The number I heard that have turned in the early out paper work at this point isn't good. But there will probably be a rush at the end of the time period or one can hope.

That's funny because I heard just the opposite. I guess we'll just have to wait and see come mid June.

 

[gutshotdraw]

So far about 250 pilots have done the poll on the union web site. 7% early out. 33% reduced schedule. 4% 1 year LOA. 4% 3 year LOA. 66% opt in. The problem is who knows if this is a real representative account of the over all pilot population at NJA. There really isn't that high a percentage of pilots who regularly go on that message board so it is hard to say that those percentages will hold true for the entire group. If they do hold true that will be around 200 pilots at NJA getting the early out and a hopefully enough overall participation to avoid furloughs. At least the company will let us know how many actually do the early out and will most likely give a strong suggestion as to how many more would be wise to take the 3 year LOA or face possible furlough before that LOA bid must be in.

We have specifically asked that we be told this information when the bid period closes and were refused.......

The numbers we have are based on personal conversations and a list compiled by a G-IV pilot. We won't know for sure until people's names start disappearing from the schedule.

 

[av8trinabarrel]

Ahhhhh NJWife! For the first time, I have to call bad form on you! Your closing statements in your post are completely out of line.

Our own union leadership and officials have made it a point NOT to campaign to push the JPM's on anyone. And they have repeated over and over and over ad nauseum that they would like it if no one else did either.

Many threads on our own message boards have been headed off by Brian Ward when it appeared that one individual or another was asking folks to take advantage of these measures, or someone would express "disappointment" that not everyone was doing his/her part.

Now here you are on a public message board doing exactly what they've asked us not to do.

While I understand your passion towards this issue, I think it would be best to respect the wishes of our union officers. Perhaps your post would have been better served by concluding with "Please take the time to read and understand the Joint Preventative Measures, and make an informed decision on what you can or can't do."

Asking people directly to take advantage of the JPM's is contrary to what the union has advised us about doing.

I completely understand emotions are high right now among the junior folks(me being one of them). Do I get angry when I'm flying with a captain who is 65 and just took out a 600G mortgage with ZERO in savings and then has the nerve to ask my input on a boat after we just got done talking about me losing my ability to feed my family because of a furlough. HELL Yes I get mad! Who am I to say what he does with his schedule or his money, but the complete lack of humility coming from some people(nobody so far in this discussion) is what gets the junior rank and file all pissed off. We all know that this kind of guy is in the minority, but emotions get the best of all of us.

Most of the people I fly with and talk to, are all very understanding of the junior man's plight. I hold no ill will against anyone that cannot help with the cause, but don't spit in my face by asking what kind of ski boat you should bye when you are flat broke at 65 years old!!!:smash:

 

[netjetwife]

Ahhhhh NJWife! For the first time, I have to call bad form on you! Your closing statements in your post are completely out of line. And that I made them, nonetheless, considering the situation mentioned below, should tell you how strongly I believe it needs to be said. Perhaps our definition of bad form differs? To me it is standing by refusing to help (or use the bully pulpit) while potentially hundreds of NJ families may lose their income.

Our own union leadership and officials have made it a point NOT to campaign to push the JPM's on anyone. This could turn out to be a big mistake if their silence fails to convey the urgent need for participation. And they have repeated over and over and over ad nauseum that they would like it if no one else did either. I think that's just a bit of exaggeration....

Many threads on our own message boards have been headed off by Brian Ward when it appeared that one individual or another was asking folks to take advantage of these measures, or someone would express "disappointment" that not everyone was doing his/her part. I guess leadership is concerned that the pilotgroup will lose its unity if it breaks down into seniority blocks. Ironically, I think that is more likely to occur if too many pilots opt out and lots of junior pilots get furloughed. If that were to happen, how motivated will the junior pilots be on future issues to stand with senior pilots who refused them help at a critical time?

Now here you are on a public message board doing exactly what they've asked us not to do. And there I was at home (on the phone) telling my husband of my concerns. We're all involved and we're all entitled to an opinion. FI is a good forum for discussing the issues. Personally, I think there should be just as much discussion about the JPMC as there was about the past contract votes.

While I understand your passion towards this issue, I think it would be best to respect the wishes of our union officers. They may want a calm, quiet NJ message board, but they haven't asked us not to debate the issue here. My husband knows where I stand and he didn't ask me to stop posting here. Perhaps your post would have been better served by concluding with "Please take the time to read and understand the Joint Preventative Measures, and make an informed decision on what you can or can't do." I think there are plenty of people sticking to that safe message and we can assume by now that most have read the package. I believe it's time to start the moral debate, to ask -- what is the right thing to do. I think NJA/I families will be better served by an open discussion that includes words like: selfish, personal responsibility, and unity.

Asking people directly to take advantage of the JPM's is contrary to what the union has advised us about doing.

Not exactly. They've stressed the need for a calm, respectful discussion (which doesn't always happen on message boards) and they are taking seriously their obligation to represent the entire Membership. It seems that their legal responsibility to do so dictates an officially neutral position; understandably safer for them. As leaders of NJASAP they also have to balance competing interests: the need to save jobs and the goal of making sure that management has first done all they can to become more efficient and stop wasting money. It's a tricky balancing act to be sure. If the pilots pick up all of the slack for management, they won't be forced to make much-needed improvements. On the other hand, (and this is my concern) if they wait too long and fail to convey an adequate sense of urgency then we could see hundreds of pilots get furloughed.

 

[Dooker]

To a certain extent, RJS is fulla crap. So's anyone who thinks what we do is any more indespensible than, say, staying at the Four Season versus a Hilton, or taking a sedan versus a good ol' taxi.

Our business is a luxury. Period. And as much as I hate to admit it, since my very livelihood is tied up in it, the fractional industry is fairly emblematic of just how skewed things get after about twenty years of tax policy that favor the wealthy and corporations at the expense of the middle class, combined with deregulation of the financial services industry to the point of folly.

These people we fly around have been the beneficiaries of all of this largesse while we (meaning, middle-class chumps like us) have been asked to buy into a "trickle down" theory that really hasn't trickled down much at all.

Uncle Warren said it best when he appeared before the Senate to testify about the need to raise taxes on the wealthy a couple years ago.

"For the past twenty years, the rich have been on a space ship, while the middle class has been on a treadmill."

Or words to that effect.

Like I say, it's a little painful for me to say this, since I make my living flying these spoiled wealthy ********************s around for a living, but let's face it: haven't we all rolled our eyes more than once when we see what goes on back there? At the supreme arrogance of wealth? At the disgusting excess of privilege?

At the kid who will never know the joy of taking his shoes off to clear security? Or have to worry about getting into a decent school, because he was in the day he was born?

At the mom who still feels the need to travel with a nanny, even though she's only got one kid?

At the Bentleys and Maybachs that meet us planeside that cost much, much more than the homes we live in?

Am I the only one out there with these mixed thoughts? Who wonders how in the world so few people in this country managed to get their hands on so much of its wealth, and so quickly? Who wonders if the rise of the very industry in which he works might signal something more ominous for the nation as a whole?

I never planned on driving corporate jets--always thought I'd wind up an airline pilot, hauling around folks a lot closer to my own tax bracket. To my mind, there is still something honorable in that. But this turned out ot be the path of least resistance, so here I am, whoring myself out for the top one percent.

If it all went away tomorrow, I'd be bummed, because then I'd have to find a real job. But I can't say I'd be devastated.

 

[netjetwife]

We have specifically asked that we be told this information when the bid period closes and were refused........

It always angers and amazes me that they do that to you guys! Sharing information costs them nothing but means a lot to you. It's that utter lack of consideration and respect on management's part (unfortunately common in the industry) that makes Unions necessary.

 

[glasspilot]

It take a little nerve to get on here and say, "quit your dream so I can have mine."

 

[Captainzero1]

To a certain extent, RJS is fulla crap. So's anyone who thinks what we do is any more indespensible than, say, staying at the Four Season versus a Hilton, or taking a sedan versus a good ol' taxi.

Our business is a luxury. Period. And as much as I hate to admit it, since my very livelihood is tied up in it, the fractional industry is fairly emblematic of just how skewed things get after about twenty years of tax policy that favor the wealthy and corporations at the expense of the middle class, combined with deregulation of the financial services industry to the point of folly.

These people we fly around have been the beneficiaries of all of this largesse while we (meaning, middle-class chumps like us) have been asked to buy into a "trickle down" theory that really hasn't trickled down much at all.

Uncle Warren said it best when he appeared before the Senate to testify about the need to raise taxes on the wealthy a couple years ago.

"For the past twenty years, the rich have been on a space ship, while the middle class has been on a treadmill."

Or words to that effect.

Like I say, it's a little painful for me to say this, since I make my living flying these spoiled wealthy ********************s around for a living, but let's face it: haven't we all rolled our eyes more than once when we see what goes on back there? At the supreme arrogance of wealth? At the disgusting excess of privilege?

At the kid who will never know the joy of taking his shoes off to clear security? Or have to worry about getting into a decent school, because he was in the day he was born?

At the mom who still feels the need to travel with a nanny, even though she's only got one kid?

At the Bentleys and Maybachs that meet us planeside that cost much, much more than the homes we live in?

Am I the only one out there with these mixed thoughts? Who wonders how in the world so few people in this country managed to get their hands on so much of its wealth, and so quickly? Who wonders if the rise of the very industry in which he works might signal something more ominous for the nation as a whole?

I never planned on driving corporate jets--always thought I'd wind up an airline pilot, hauling around folks a lot closer to my own tax bracket. To my mind, there is still something honorable in that. But this turned out ot be the path of least resistance, so here I am, whoring myself out for the top one percent.

If it all went away tomorrow, I'd be bummed, because then I'd have to find a real job. But I can't say I'd be devastated.

Amen to the that brother.

 

[netjetwife]

Dooker, your post is certainly food for thought and I'll be thinking about it later, I know. One quick thought.... we're certainly seeing how wide-spread the impact of private aviation is. Consider that we've seen lots of middle class Americans lose factory jobs with the recent cancellations for airplanes. And then there's all the jobs that are associated with the business trips frac customers make.... hotel staff needed for all the pilots out on the road...at the resorts the wealthy fly to, places they shop, etc... Interesting post to come back to, but right now I want to explain the reasoning behind my controversial post regarding the furlough mitigation package at NJ.

 

[RNObased]

It take a little nerve to get on here and say, "quit your dream so I can have mine."

Well said.