Video from CNBC-Santulli CEO NetJets

[amaineiac]

Don't think it will get close to 10%, more like 6 or 7%. The number I heard that have turned in the early out paper work at this point isn't good. But there will probably be a rush at the end of the time period or one can hope.

That's funny because I heard just the opposite. I guess we'll just have to wait and see come mid June.

 

[gutshotdraw]

So far about 250 pilots have done the poll on the union web site. 7% early out. 33% reduced schedule. 4% 1 year LOA. 4% 3 year LOA. 66% opt in. The problem is who knows if this is a real representative account of the over all pilot population at NJA. There really isn't that high a percentage of pilots who regularly go on that message board so it is hard to say that those percentages will hold true for the entire group. If they do hold true that will be around 200 pilots at NJA getting the early out and a hopefully enough overall participation to avoid furloughs. At least the company will let us know how many actually do the early out and will most likely give a strong suggestion as to how many more would be wise to take the 3 year LOA or face possible furlough before that LOA bid must be in.

We have specifically asked that we be told this information when the bid period closes and were refused.......

The numbers we have are based on personal conversations and a list compiled by a G-IV pilot. We won't know for sure until people's names start disappearing from the schedule.

 

[av8trinabarrel]

Ahhhhh NJWife! For the first time, I have to call bad form on you! Your closing statements in your post are completely out of line.

Our own union leadership and officials have made it a point NOT to campaign to push the JPM's on anyone. And they have repeated over and over and over ad nauseum that they would like it if no one else did either.

Many threads on our own message boards have been headed off by Brian Ward when it appeared that one individual or another was asking folks to take advantage of these measures, or someone would express "disappointment" that not everyone was doing his/her part.

Now here you are on a public message board doing exactly what they've asked us not to do.

While I understand your passion towards this issue, I think it would be best to respect the wishes of our union officers. Perhaps your post would have been better served by concluding with "Please take the time to read and understand the Joint Preventative Measures, and make an informed decision on what you can or can't do."

Asking people directly to take advantage of the JPM's is contrary to what the union has advised us about doing.

I completely understand emotions are high right now among the junior folks(me being one of them). Do I get angry when I'm flying with a captain who is 65 and just took out a 600G mortgage with ZERO in savings and then has the nerve to ask my input on a boat after we just got done talking about me losing my ability to feed my family because of a furlough. HELL Yes I get mad! Who am I to say what he does with his schedule or his money, but the complete lack of humility coming from some people(nobody so far in this discussion) is what gets the junior rank and file all pissed off. We all know that this kind of guy is in the minority, but emotions get the best of all of us.

Most of the people I fly with and talk to, are all very understanding of the junior man's plight. I hold no ill will against anyone that cannot help with the cause, but don't spit in my face by asking what kind of ski boat you should bye when you are flat broke at 65 years old!!!:smash:

 

[netjetwife]

Ahhhhh NJWife! For the first time, I have to call bad form on you! Your closing statements in your post are completely out of line. And that I made them, nonetheless, considering the situation mentioned below, should tell you how strongly I believe it needs to be said. Perhaps our definition of bad form differs? To me it is standing by refusing to help (or use the bully pulpit) while potentially hundreds of NJ families may lose their income.

Our own union leadership and officials have made it a point NOT to campaign to push the JPM's on anyone. This could turn out to be a big mistake if their silence fails to convey the urgent need for participation. And they have repeated over and over and over ad nauseum that they would like it if no one else did either. I think that's just a bit of exaggeration....

Many threads on our own message boards have been headed off by Brian Ward when it appeared that one individual or another was asking folks to take advantage of these measures, or someone would express "disappointment" that not everyone was doing his/her part. I guess leadership is concerned that the pilotgroup will lose its unity if it breaks down into seniority blocks. Ironically, I think that is more likely to occur if too many pilots opt out and lots of junior pilots get furloughed. If that were to happen, how motivated will the junior pilots be on future issues to stand with senior pilots who refused them help at a critical time?

Now here you are on a public message board doing exactly what they've asked us not to do. And there I was at home (on the phone) telling my husband of my concerns. We're all involved and we're all entitled to an opinion. FI is a good forum for discussing the issues. Personally, I think there should be just as much discussion about the JPMC as there was about the past contract votes.

While I understand your passion towards this issue, I think it would be best to respect the wishes of our union officers. They may want a calm, quiet NJ message board, but they haven't asked us not to debate the issue here. My husband knows where I stand and he didn't ask me to stop posting here. Perhaps your post would have been better served by concluding with "Please take the time to read and understand the Joint Preventative Measures, and make an informed decision on what you can or can't do." I think there are plenty of people sticking to that safe message and we can assume by now that most have read the package. I believe it's time to start the moral debate, to ask -- what is the right thing to do. I think NJA/I families will be better served by an open discussion that includes words like: selfish, personal responsibility, and unity.

Asking people directly to take advantage of the JPM's is contrary to what the union has advised us about doing.

Not exactly. They've stressed the need for a calm, respectful discussion (which doesn't always happen on message boards) and they are taking seriously their obligation to represent the entire Membership. It seems that their legal responsibility to do so dictates an officially neutral position; understandably safer for them. As leaders of NJASAP they also have to balance competing interests: the need to save jobs and the goal of making sure that management has first done all they can to become more efficient and stop wasting money. It's a tricky balancing act to be sure. If the pilots pick up all of the slack for management, they won't be forced to make much-needed improvements. On the other hand, (and this is my concern) if they wait too long and fail to convey an adequate sense of urgency then we could see hundreds of pilots get furloughed.

 

[Dooker]

To a certain extent, RJS is fulla crap. So's anyone who thinks what we do is any more indespensible than, say, staying at the Four Season versus a Hilton, or taking a sedan versus a good ol' taxi.

Our business is a luxury. Period. And as much as I hate to admit it, since my very livelihood is tied up in it, the fractional industry is fairly emblematic of just how skewed things get after about twenty years of tax policy that favor the wealthy and corporations at the expense of the middle class, combined with deregulation of the financial services industry to the point of folly.

These people we fly around have been the beneficiaries of all of this largesse while we (meaning, middle-class chumps like us) have been asked to buy into a "trickle down" theory that really hasn't trickled down much at all.

Uncle Warren said it best when he appeared before the Senate to testify about the need to raise taxes on the wealthy a couple years ago.

"For the past twenty years, the rich have been on a space ship, while the middle class has been on a treadmill."

Or words to that effect.

Like I say, it's a little painful for me to say this, since I make my living flying these spoiled wealthy ********************s around for a living, but let's face it: haven't we all rolled our eyes more than once when we see what goes on back there? At the supreme arrogance of wealth? At the disgusting excess of privilege?

At the kid who will never know the joy of taking his shoes off to clear security? Or have to worry about getting into a decent school, because he was in the day he was born?

At the mom who still feels the need to travel with a nanny, even though she's only got one kid?

At the Bentleys and Maybachs that meet us planeside that cost much, much more than the homes we live in?

Am I the only one out there with these mixed thoughts? Who wonders how in the world so few people in this country managed to get their hands on so much of its wealth, and so quickly? Who wonders if the rise of the very industry in which he works might signal something more ominous for the nation as a whole?

I never planned on driving corporate jets--always thought I'd wind up an airline pilot, hauling around folks a lot closer to my own tax bracket. To my mind, there is still something honorable in that. But this turned out ot be the path of least resistance, so here I am, whoring myself out for the top one percent.

If it all went away tomorrow, I'd be bummed, because then I'd have to find a real job. But I can't say I'd be devastated.

 

[netjetwife]

We have specifically asked that we be told this information when the bid period closes and were refused........

It always angers and amazes me that they do that to you guys! Sharing information costs them nothing but means a lot to you. It's that utter lack of consideration and respect on management's part (unfortunately common in the industry) that makes Unions necessary.

 

[glasspilot]

It take a little nerve to get on here and say, "quit your dream so I can have mine."

 

[Captainzero1]

To a certain extent, RJS is fulla crap. So's anyone who thinks what we do is any more indespensible than, say, staying at the Four Season versus a Hilton, or taking a sedan versus a good ol' taxi.

Our business is a luxury. Period. And as much as I hate to admit it, since my very livelihood is tied up in it, the fractional industry is fairly emblematic of just how skewed things get after about twenty years of tax policy that favor the wealthy and corporations at the expense of the middle class, combined with deregulation of the financial services industry to the point of folly.

These people we fly around have been the beneficiaries of all of this largesse while we (meaning, middle-class chumps like us) have been asked to buy into a "trickle down" theory that really hasn't trickled down much at all.

Uncle Warren said it best when he appeared before the Senate to testify about the need to raise taxes on the wealthy a couple years ago.

"For the past twenty years, the rich have been on a space ship, while the middle class has been on a treadmill."

Or words to that effect.

Like I say, it's a little painful for me to say this, since I make my living flying these spoiled wealthy ********************s around for a living, but let's face it: haven't we all rolled our eyes more than once when we see what goes on back there? At the supreme arrogance of wealth? At the disgusting excess of privilege?

At the kid who will never know the joy of taking his shoes off to clear security? Or have to worry about getting into a decent school, because he was in the day he was born?

At the mom who still feels the need to travel with a nanny, even though she's only got one kid?

At the Bentleys and Maybachs that meet us planeside that cost much, much more than the homes we live in?

Am I the only one out there with these mixed thoughts? Who wonders how in the world so few people in this country managed to get their hands on so much of its wealth, and so quickly? Who wonders if the rise of the very industry in which he works might signal something more ominous for the nation as a whole?

I never planned on driving corporate jets--always thought I'd wind up an airline pilot, hauling around folks a lot closer to my own tax bracket. To my mind, there is still something honorable in that. But this turned out ot be the path of least resistance, so here I am, whoring myself out for the top one percent.

If it all went away tomorrow, I'd be bummed, because then I'd have to find a real job. But I can't say I'd be devastated.

Amen to the that brother.

 

[netjetwife]

Dooker, your post is certainly food for thought and I'll be thinking about it later, I know. One quick thought.... we're certainly seeing how wide-spread the impact of private aviation is. Consider that we've seen lots of middle class Americans lose factory jobs with the recent cancellations for airplanes. And then there's all the jobs that are associated with the business trips frac customers make.... hotel staff needed for all the pilots out on the road...at the resorts the wealthy fly to, places they shop, etc... Interesting post to come back to, but right now I want to explain the reasoning behind my controversial post regarding the furlough mitigation package at NJ.

 

[RNObased]

It take a little nerve to get on here and say, "quit your dream so I can have mine."

Well said.