Video from CNBC-Santulli CEO NetJets

[RCR5]

I'll talk to you in July and you tell me how it is working.

Remind my CS friends that jumped ship and went to NetJets this past year as well. I am sure they are very happy they gave up there seniority and jobs at CS for the wonderful security of their union job now.

 

[netjetwife]

I was one of the guys furloughed at CS and am going to call Bull******************** on this post!!!!! I'll go over it with you. Union or not, this economy is affecting everyone. Agreed. Are those boots to tight for you netjetwife? They seem to be cutting the blood off to your brain. My post was polite and supportive while yours is rude and insulting. By any fair standard, RC, it's your post that reeks...:smash: This is the closest smiley we have for waving the BS Flag. Let me show you how to call Bull*****...

Sell your pro union 'help' to someone else. :smash: Correction: I was empathizing and showing sincere concern for the CS pilots. Throwing a frac neighbor's support back in their face is BS. It does nothing to help build camaraderie at a time when all aviation folks need to support each other. Let me know how your union is helping Berkshire Hathaway and NetJets after the first week of July. You KNOW what I am talking about. :erm: Actually, that's a bit vague, but I'll share my thoughts. NJASAP will be working w/NJA to cut waste, correct redundancies and become more efficient. Some of us think that will involve NJI. The NJ pilots who are participating in the Preventive Measures will be helping to save money and alleviate the over-manning problem caused by reduced demand.

You have BH backing you. That is all that is saving Netjets from furloughing HUGE (by other fractional carriers standards) numbers of pilots....period. Get an education and some integrity here if you REALLY want to help pilots. I make it a point to stay informed about frac issues and I only post on topics I understand. Moreover, there is no reason to cast aspersions on my integrity, which is very solid. Here's your flag...:smash: And a second one .. :smash:...for failing to give the NJ employees (not just pilots) due credit for signing up for the jointly identified ways to cut costs and simultaneously save jobs. And another flag :smash: for your failure to properly recognize NJA and NJASAP for working together to produce the options package that has saved a huge number of jobs.

As just a line pilot with an EDUCATION, I can see that CS has done the best they can considering the current economic situation.

You are full of ********************.

Their best? I think not. Sharing information costs very little, if anything, so their refusal to do so can't be blamed on the economy. During trying times being kept informed matters even more and morale, typically low when there's a furlough, can be raised with good communication. Insulting me for standing up for the CS pilots merits you one more flag...:smash:.

The flags above have been partly in fun; seriously, though, I think it's wrong not to be more supportive of your fellow pilots and their families, especially these days. Because of your complaints, I took another look at my post but I still stand by what I wrote. Best Wishes to the CS pilots and their families. NJW

 

[RCR5]

Their best? I think not. Sharing information costs very little, if anything, so their refusal to do so can't be blamed on the economy. During trying times being kept informed matters even more and morale, typically low when there's a furlough, can be raised with good communication. Insulting me for standing up for the CS pilots merits you one more flag...:smash:.

The flags above have been partly in fun; seriously, though, I think it's wrong not to be more supportive of your fellow pilots and their families, especially these days. Because of your complaints, I took another look at my post but I still stand by what I wrote. Best Wishes to the CS pilots and their families. NJW

Aaahhhh yeah, sharing information. That great line of communication right? Just go ask a NetJet pilot how many are going to be affected by the upcoming cutbacks......ummmmm, 200, 500, 700 pilots....er, we don't know? Well when will the 200, 500, 700 pilots be coming back? Are they happy? Has your union saved the day? You REALLY don't get it.

CS had some folks leave for the 'better life' of Netjets and now they are on the street. Had they stayed, they would have a job. How has that 'voice at the table' helped them?

NetJetwife, you live in a bubble. You get on these boards and preach to us like you are some expert. You tell me about CS practice and it is laughable. I worked there. I was furloughed. I KNOW what they did was the best they could do. You only know what the others in your little bubble tell you. I am not sure who feeds you this stuff about our company but you look foolish speaking of it as if it were truth. It is one side of the story...more than likely a pro union side.

If you want to save face, here is an idea for you. Talk about the stuff going on at Netjets. If you really are married to a Netjet pilot, atleast it will be more accurate than what you are saying about my company.

Another thing. I do support my furloughed CS friends. Again, you have NO idea. You absolutely look foolish speaking like you do.

As far as my post being rude, again you are wrong. I am honest and to the point. I will call BS on your posts ANYTIME you want to step over into my side and speak like you are about my company.

Mind your own business. Have a GREAT day!

 

[fischman]

Aaahhhh yeah, sharing information. That great line of communication right? Just go ask a NetJet pilot how many are going to be affected by the upcoming cutbacks......ummmmm, 200, 500, 700 pilots....er, we don't know? Well when will the 200, 500, 700 pilots be coming back? Are they happy? Has your union saved the day? You REALLY don't get it.

With all due respect, in this instance, she really does get it. NJASAP has saved the day for several hundred toward the bottom of the seniority list.

 

[RCR5]

You know, I HOPE you are right, I really, really do.

Now how about those AT the bottom of the list?

 

[Hogprint]

RCRS posted:

CS had some folks leave for the 'better life' of Netjets and now they are on the street.

Why are they on the street? We haven't furloughed anyone to the best of my knowledge.

 

[glasspilot]

Seriously? I would imagine the bottom 200 to 600 are feeling very exposed right now. Exposed like, "not sure how to pay the mortgage" and, "I hope we can beat off foreclosure", and, 'I hope all semblance of civility don't disappear".

And some of those guys, I'm sure, were from the aforementioned CS. Have a touch of empathy.

 

[RCR5]

You get it, glasspilot. Thank you very much.

 

[gunfyter]

If I had to be in the lower 200 to 600 of any jet frac ... which one, I wonder, would I like it to be?

Which one has options to choose from in case there is a need to reduce manpower instead of accepting furlough?

Which one has a contract with unlimited recall rights in the event of furlough?

 

[7777]

If I had to be in the lower 200 to 600 of any jet frac ... which one, I wonder, would I like it to be?

Ooooooh, OOooooooh, pick me, pick me...I know, I KNOW!!!!!

I would pick the one that would pay the mortgage or provide me enough to not have to foreclose on my house if they 'furloughed' me.

It would be the one everyone says is bullet proof. The one everyone says could never fail, you know because they are so big and have so much money? The one with the best union contract, the one that is recession proof. The one you can leave a solid job for and not have to worry about being furloughed.

Which one would that be? I remember people on this site knowing at one time.

Facts are facts.

RC worked at CS. Why wouldn't his word be more valid than that of netjetwife on how CS handled the furloughs? He works there, netjetwife does not.

 

[BeeDubya]

If I had to be in the lower 200 to 600 of any jet frac ... which one, I wonder, would I like it to be?

You have to remember, 200 is nearly half of every other jet fractional... and none, spare NJ, have more than 600...

So, anywhere else, you could be in the bottom 200 and (nearly) top half, at the same time.

 

[gunfyter]

Nice 7777.

I am responding to Glass, not RC.

But the fact of the matter is ... nobody is furloughed. So lets wait and see if the plan to save jobs during this downturn works.

 

[Fozzy]

Another thing. I do support my furloughed CS friends. Again, you have NO idea. You absolutely look foolish speaking like you do.

How is it that you "support" your furloughed friends?
Just curious.

 

[steelersrule74]

Aaahhhh yeah, sharing information. That great line of communication right? Just go ask a NetJet pilot how many are going to be affected by the upcoming cutbacks......ummmmm, 200, 500, 700 pilots....er, we don't know? Well when will the 200, 500, 700 pilots be coming back? Are they happy? Has your union saved the day? You REALLY don't get it.

CS had some folks leave for the 'better life' of Netjets and now they are on the street. Had they stayed, they would have a job. How has that 'voice at the table' helped them?

That so many of your 'facts' are in error makes it difficult to place any value to your other statements. No one at NJA has been furloughed. No CS pilot who came for the 'better life' is on the street. You claim CS management did the best they could. Perhaps, although that's not a fact - merely an opinion. What is fact is that NJA has a Union and through a collaborative effort it appears they may navigate the worst economic downturn in decades without any pilots being forced to leave. I agree anyone who comes across a NJA pilot SHOULD ask them. Where do they stand in seniority and are they happy they have a 'voice'? Do they think having a Union has made a positive impact?

I really don't care who gets the credit. NJASAP, the company or BH. It is disturbing that instead of being genuinely happy for fellow pilots who have a shot a getting through this mess in decent shape - many here seem to be gleefully waiting for the day when those efforts may ultimately fail just to prove to themselves how smart they are and how dumb the rest of us are. I find that tragic.

 

[netjetwife]

Aaahhhh yeah, sharing information. That great line of communication right? Just go ask a NetJet pilot how many are going to be affected by the upcoming cutbacks......NJ pilots will tell you that thanks to the combined efforts of the Union and the Company it is far less than it could have been. ummmmm, 200, 500, 700 pilots....er, we don't know? Actually, the pilotgroup has been kept up to date and will get another report on Monday. That's why Fisch was able to tell you that hundreds of jobs have already been saved. Well when will the 200, 500, 700 pilots be coming back? IF pilots are furloughed they will be brought back as soon as demand allows and they will have unlimited recall rights. What did the CS pilots get? Are they happy? With the mitigation package--very. Has your union saved the day? For most of those at risk--yes. (Along w/the Company; it is a joint project). The final numbers are still being tallied. You REALLY don't get it. On the contrary, jobs are being saved, making the NJ/NJASAP method the best response for that situation. Those pilots that have been offered $1000 a month and health benefits for the 3 yrs they may need to sit out, are very appreciative of the help.

.... How has that 'voice at the table' helped them? NJASAP got a much better deal for them than their counterparts got from Shares. Correct me if I'm wrong, but even furloughed NJ pilots get a better health care benefit than active CS pilots. That comes from having a 'voice at the table'.

... CS.... I worked there. I was furloughed. I KNOW what they did was the best they could do. Rigger also worked there and was furloughed, too. His post was much more critical of the way Shares treated the pilots. ... I am not sure who feeds you this stuff about our company So you just skipped the post made by another CS pilot? but you look foolish speaking of it as if it were truth. Are you suggesting that Rigger was dishonest? :erm: It is one side of the story...more than likely a pro union side. ... Your viewpoint is also one-sided and clearly anti-union. At least Rigger offered examples to back up his post; you just threw out insults and false claims.

.... As far as my post being rude, again you are wrong. Let's review it:

"Are those boots to tight for you netjetwife? They seem to be cutting the blood off to your brain. Get an education and some integrity ...You are full of ********************. End quote.

Mind your own business. ...

I was doing exactly that ....posting with a polite, interesting Shares pilot ....when you interrupted our conversation to say that I am stupid, lacking in integrity, and full of *****. But according to you, that wasn't rude...

I agree with Steeler's observation that your posts are lacking in value--and reality. Luckily, others like Rigger do get it, even if you don't.

 

[rigger]

Sorry RC and GlassPilot I gotta call this one out. CS made the easy decision and took the easy way out. The management team were told they had to make the books look a certain way and they did it the easy way. They went into the office list and said you, you and you your gone.....no upper management, no middle management just rank and file office folks! Then they went to the "seniority list" (it's not a true list as we all know) and said how far do we have to go to make the money look good......this far, poof 24 folks gone! excuse "due to less A/C deliveries" Mgmnt said at that time no more this should do it!!!!!!! They did make a buy out 1 month pay for each year or service up to 8......Ok at least it was something, but unless you were leaving anyway it was not enough to make you decide to leave. example an 8 year guy made $111,198 take 8 months pay and the buyout was......74K not terrible but that was all, 6 guys took it! LOA was offered but had to be approved by mgmt on a case by case (so they could pick and choose who did what) (see what I mean about seniority list) They also gave the furloughed guys 2 months pay and 2 months cobra......THANK YOU IT HELPS!!!(taxes taken from all the money)

Then 2 months later meeting in ICT and more "make the books look better"...... Poof 24 more office folks, again no middle mgmt, no senior management!!!! Just pack your bags your outta here TODAY!!!!! then they went back to the list and said ok how many more pilots....24 ya that should do it. ( As I said in an earlier post what do I know, but it seems the business did not change that much in 2 months) this time no LOA offer or buyout offer. No reason given either other then the "business" but if you work the pilot numbers to A/C out the "new" mix will be 4.2 pilots per A/C compared to 4.4 pre furloughs.....And last but not least when you got your "furlough letter" no where in the letter did it state that your were furloughed! It did state ELIMINATE your position, upon your TERMINATION and hope to offer re-employment in the future, in fairness it did referance the FSH that details how furloughs are done but this document can be/has been and I am sure will be again changed at will. So I will ask here if you got this letter would you think you are furloughed or FIRED???

OK history lesson closed, some thoughts I do have, CS did what they thought was right for the folks they TERMINATED. But going through this if I had my choice I would much rather have had the opportunity to have some control over my life, I would love to know today if I will be one of the chosen one that will be offered RE-EMPLOYMENT?? I would love to know how long I can be TERMINATED for and when I will be really ELIMANATED?? I would love to be able to tell my kids and my wife that no matter what happens, I will have a position back at the company and we won't have to start once again at the bottom of some seniority list.... but none of the above I can do because there is no plan, there is no communication (CS cut off our log in and our E mail) from the company, and we have no one speaking for us in or out of the company!

I am sure Net jets folks are feeling stressed about the bills, family, home, etc. They have every right to be THIS ALL SUCKS! but they at least have worked hard (getting the union organized) to have some control over the destiny of themselves and the group on a whole! They know what the options are, and they know a little bit about the future, something RC we will never have until we get ourselves together.

Until CS get's a hold of thier internal cost problems and makes some real change in the Travel, Customer service, Plane and Crew scheduling inefficiencies then I will be unable to ever say "they did everything they could before they let folks go" they did what was easy.......not what they needed too. At least Netjets is trying to get thier problems worked out with NJI and USA operations.

And on a passing shot, to sound like a real liberal WHY DID CS MANAGEMENT TAKE (and accept) A BONUS LAST YEAR if things were that bad???? If you earn it take it if your business did not so good you did not earn it!

 

[wolfpackpilot]

I really don't care who gets the credit. NJASAP, the company or BH. It is disturbing that instead of being genuinely happy for fellow pilots who have a shot a getting through this mess in decent shape

To quote Cast of Thousands...

"Winner Winner, Chicken Dinner"

I couldn't agree more Steelman. The current state of affairs calls for a bonding of all NetJets employees to one common goal; ensuring NetJets survives and comes out the other side ready to run.

On 9/13/2001 I stood in line at the unemployment office in Raleigh, NC along with dozen of other Midway Airlines pilots wondering what on earth was going to happen to me and my family. I survived and our pilots will too. RTS has done what hardly any corporate exec these days would do, and he has my sincere gratitude. NJASAP has worked openly and honestly with management to come up with ideas and plans to share the burden, they have done the right thing. Dozens of pilots age 63 and older are stepping up and taking the offers to make room for younger pilots. NJI pilots have saved tens of thousands of dollars airlining in row 44 on transatlantic flights...

Everyone is doing everything they can to make our company work. In 2015 when our business model is producing a profit again, we will reap those rewards and we remain the Big Dog we are now.

And the spinless little sh*tbags who secretly hope NetJets will fail can kiss my arse.

 

[RCR5]

Hey you know what rigger?

Unless you were sitting in the meetings and part of it all, you are speculating. Plain and simple. That is your opinion. There are many in the company with opposing opinions.

Shares has never shown me anything but a sincere effort to do the best they can in every situation. Sometimes things get messed up but they always get corrected. MOST of the time, things are wonderful......all without a union. That is all the proof I need.

I still believe in doing the best you can for those PAYING you to do a job and things will all work out. Having flown with those with varying opinions from both sides of the fence, I have found that most of what is spouted as truth in this company, in an effort to get a union, is nothing more than lies used to stir the pot.

When asked to provide proof, first hand accounts, ect,. The person saying it was not able to provide anything more than second hand accounts.

I go with what I have experienced in this company. That is honesty, kindness, and a sincere effort to make things better, again, all without a union. That is a company I will always want to work for.

I would love to give you my side of the equation, but I will refrain from posting company issues here. It is nobody elses busines but ours.

 

[ozpilot]

NJI pilots have saved tens of thousands of dollars airlining in row 44 on transatlantic flights...

Really? I know you guys are entitled to business class or better on international flights - as are the NJA pilots.

If the NJI guys are volunteering to fly economy, that saves some serious cash. I'm impressed. Seriously.

:beer:

And the spinless little sh*tbags who secretly hope NetJets will fail can kiss my arse.

No argument there!

 

[netjetwife]

... MOST of the time, things are wonderful......all without a union. That is all the proof I need.

An ambiguous letter that leaves pilots hanging, not knowing if they were terminated or furloughed, and gives them no idea if they will be recalled, re-employed, or totally forgotten is not wonderful. It is insulting and pathetic! What a lousy way to treat pilots who sacrificed time with their families, working hard for the company. I think that's enough proof for the CS pilots to know they need representation.

... I have found that most of what is spouted as truth in this company, in an effort to get a union, is nothing more than lies used to stir the pot.

Are you suggesting that Rigger was lying about the letter he received?

I go with what I have experienced in this company. That is honesty, kindness, and a sincere effort to make things better, again, all without a union. .....

From Rigger's account, his experience is vastly different. Had the CS pilots been organized, furloughs would have been done in accordance with contract rules, giving all pilots equal treatment. Rigger's status would not be in question and he would know exactly what his recall rights are.

Again, my sympathies, Rigger. Your situation is getting worse with each post. Please tell your wife and kids that I'm sorry this has happened to y'all. The frac lifestyle is often difficult and requires many sacrifices. After all you gave to Shares, your family deserved better treatment. Netjetwife