Video from CNBC-Santulli CEO NetJets

[Dooker]

Dooker, you've written some funny stuff in the past so I'm assuming you're kidding. Right?

Are some of our clients using our service as a luxury? Absolutely. Guess what? It's their freaking money.

Do some people misuse a corporate jet? Absolutely. But people misuse valuable tools every day. Cars (drunk driving). Guns (people waving a .45 in a road rage). Kitchen knives (John Wayne Bobbitt ring any bells?)

But the fact is, for a great many businesses, fractional shares and corporate flight departments ARE invaluable business tools. The client I flew yesterday did important business meetings in three major cities on both coasts in less than 48 hours. NO WAY that happens on United. Santulli made GREAT points about how many of our corporate client flights are mid-level managers doing business in small towns with limited or non-existent airline service. Business that would be IMPOSSIBLE, WAY MORE TIME CONSUMING, and MORE EXPENSIVE OVERALL using Delta (insert favorite airline here).

And as for trickle down. Yes, it clearly works. You WOULDN'T HAVE A JOB if it didn't.

Trickle down schmickle down.

Do you really think this country is stronger than it was twenty years ago?

With a trade deficit that defies comprehension and the majority of our debt in foreign (mostly Chinese) hands?

With the middle class taking it coming and going, in the form of skyrocketing medical expenses, balooning college tuitions and declining financial aid?

With an economy that continues to pump its best jobs overseas, and lucrative tax breaks to companies that do so?

With a looming fiscal disaster that makes the auto industry bailout look like a pittance, thanks to the medicare/medicaid prescription drug act?

Do you really think we're better off?

This country is strong when the middle class is strong (which, by the way, is why I think unions are indespinsible, but that's for another time). I don't know if you have kids, but if you do, you can't help but wonder what they're gonna inherit once this is all over.

And, sure, I've got a job. All I'm saying is, the fact that so many more of us than ever before make our livings tending to the needs of the rich might not bode particularly well for the country as a whole.

 

[netjetwife]

RNO, my guess about the project soon to be unveiled does include combining the ops centers. There's no other way to save as much $ as fast, as far as I can see, and that is the redundancy problem. I just refer to the whole issue as the "integration", which certainly isn't limited to a VSL list...

Yes, I'm reading both boards right now, too. Not surprisingly, I notice the tone of hope and you comment on the anger, which I'd classify more as determination. (FI is good for getting different perspectives, huh...) Regardless of what we call it, I think the response is perfectly logical. When the hat is passed, donors have an expectation that the money will be used wisely, and there are watchdog organizations in our society that blow the whistle on fraudulent groups. The NJ pilots have a strong EBoard to act as their watchdog. Thank God! Can you imagine going thru this without a Union?!

To answer my own question, of course we can. We're surrounded by examples where the pilots have little or no input and managers hoard information like it's gold and thieves are at the door... Speaking of, how likely is it that the NJI pilots got an update ICOM?

 

[glasspilot]

Pay heed! Dooker may just be Dr. Ian Malcom (Jeff Goldblum) of Jurassic Park.

Henry Wu: "You're implying that a group composed entirely of female animals will... breed?"

Dr. malcom: "No, I'm simply saying that life, uh... finds a way."

They all thought he was crazy, but guess what...he was right. Dooker may just be right too.

 

[glasspilot]

Those of you who disliked Av8tr's post are misinterpreting it, I think. He wasn't against the PIC having a dream of owning a boat and living in an expensive home. It was the lack of SA--situational awareness-- If you're going to explain the acronym, why even use it? Just trying to sound "pilot-ish"? and total insensitivity that was upsetting.....

Look, I was not referring to just Av8tr's post. Bragging about how well you have it in front of a guy who's about to lose his job is bad form for anyone. I don't care if you're an office worker who just won the lottery going back to say, "suck it" to all the office staff or an NBA star hanging out at a soup kitchen to make fun of the stinky. Bad form no matter what.

My point was to the onslaught of people (NJW included) on this forum saying, very bluntly, that those who can, should, take advantage of the companies gracious offer and take an early retirement or LOA or something to SAVE JOBS!!!!

I say those who want to should. No one should feel obligated to step aside for anyone else. To say they should would be saying exactly what I said in my last post: "please quit your dream so I can have mine."

On a larger note; You all do realize that NJ isn't offering all these early out / LOA packages because they have a deep seated desire to help beloved pilots right?

If they furlough, then they furlough from the bottom of the list. That creates a massive re-staffing / re-training expense as they repopulate the furloughed positions across 8 fleets. The number I keep hearing is that NJ is 30% overstaffed. That means roughly %60 of the FO would need to go. That would be a huge expense. Think GAMillion's of dollars.

Enter the incentive package now in place. If they can reduce the numbers more or less evenly throughout the seniority list then they can save massive cash by not having nearly the bump and flush scenario that would ensue with out. Notice how the package is aimed at every level of the list. Coincidence? I think not.

Food for the soul. Go Dooker.

 

[gutshotdraw]

RNO, my guess about the project soon to be unveiled does include combining the ops centers. There's no other way to save as much $ as fast, as far as I can see, and that is the redundancy problem. I just refer to the whole issue as the "integration", which certainly isn't limited to a VSL list...

Yes, I'm reading both boards right now, too. Not surprisingly, I notice the tone of hope and you comment on the anger, which I'd classify more as determination. (FI is good for getting different perspectives, huh...) Regardless of what we call it, I think the response is perfectly logical. When the hat is passed, donors have an expectation that the money will be used wisely, and there are watchdog organizations in our society that blow the whistle on fraudulent groups. The NJ pilots have a strong EBoard to act as their watchdog. Thank God! Can you imagine going thru this without a Union?!

To answer my own question, of course we can. We're surrounded by examples where the pilots have little or no input and managers hoard information like it's gold and thieves are at the door... Speaking of, how likely is it that the NJI pilots got an update ICOM?

That would be ZERO.

Got the info from an NJASAP EB friend. Bad juju all the way around.

 

[Diesel]

I just read the ICOM on the NJ board. I understand the numbers are not for public eyes so I'm just inviting comments on the overall tone. I like the fact that right away RTS recognized the value of the labor-management process, and it seems that we're heading in the right direction--yeah! on saving jobs. (Yes, that was a cheerleader yell...)

Why then not just keep it on our own board? We don't need the public looking in on our own inhouse issues. NJI pilots can post in their own section, or talk about it in our own cockpits. If its because you feel your voice needs to be heard... or maybe agenda it doesn't. Keep it within your own homes, like the rest of us are doing, or on our own messageboards. There is no reason to poll the public unless you need to hear yourself.

God I'm glad my wife doesn't post on this board, of course the plane she flies, her min fuel is more than my plane weighs. So I guess she has better things to do.

 

[wolfpackpilot]

God I'm glad my wife doesn't post on this board, of course the plane she flies, her min fuel is more than my plane weighs. So I guess she has better things to do.

Does that mean her Johnson is bigger too?

 

[av8trinabarrel]

Those of you who disliked Av8tr's post are misinterpreting it, I think. He wasn't against the PIC having a dream of owning a boat and living in an expensive home. It was the lack of SA--situational awareness-- and total insensitivity that was upsetting. PICs have to know that these are worrisome times for many FOs. Thus, a show of moral support is more appropriate. At the very least you don't talk about your toys to a pilot who is wondering if he can keep food on the table and a roof over his family's head....:erm: especially when the FO had just been discussing what many would consider to be a personal nightmare...

Av8tr, you and the other pilots facing a possible furlough have my sympathy and support...also called "cheerleading" by some....

Direct Pitch Alert: In all seriousness, these are tough times for many junior pilots and some of them may not have close friends and/or family to confide in. Please take that into consideration when you're out on the road. Even those who don't bring it up first would probably appreciate some kind words and a show of moral support. Just sayin'...

Thanks NJW for the support. You hit the nail on the head. If a guy wants to buy 10 boats and a house...then by all means, go knock yourself out and buy it all. I have and never will ask for anyone to give up something to save my job. I would rather come back to the best job in flying in a few years rather than keep a mediocre job today. If someone does give something, I am the first one to thank them for the support. A little dose of humility is severly lacking among a handfull of our own. Maybe showing this old farts complete lack of financial planning may have rubbed some of you the wrong way, but that was not my intention. I hope his family enjoys that house payment long after he is goneimp:

 

[gret]

The model is dead, and always has been.

The objective was to get to get to a "critical mass" and they have achieved it, but they still lose money.

Netjets has made money 18 months out of their 20 years of their life.

RTS is a very smart guy, but it simply doesn't work.

Busines is down by 25% and that means they have to cut costs by the same amount. Do the math and that tells how many crewmembers have to go.

 

[gunfyter]

I guess that means Capitalism doesn't work. The economy shrunk 6.1% in the first quarter.

Somebody tell Adam Smith!

Hell we know Banking and auto manufacturing doesn't work.... Neither does Housing and Commercial Real Estate ... and credit cards ....