Video from CNBC-Santulli CEO NetJets

[Dooker]

Dooker, you've written some funny stuff in the past so I'm assuming you're kidding. Right?

Are some of our clients using our service as a luxury? Absolutely. Guess what? It's their freaking money.

Do some people misuse a corporate jet? Absolutely. But people misuse valuable tools every day. Cars (drunk driving). Guns (people waving a .45 in a road rage). Kitchen knives (John Wayne Bobbitt ring any bells?)

But the fact is, for a great many businesses, fractional shares and corporate flight departments ARE invaluable business tools. The client I flew yesterday did important business meetings in three major cities on both coasts in less than 48 hours. NO WAY that happens on United. Santulli made GREAT points about how many of our corporate client flights are mid-level managers doing business in small towns with limited or non-existent airline service. Business that would be IMPOSSIBLE, WAY MORE TIME CONSUMING, and MORE EXPENSIVE OVERALL using Delta (insert favorite airline here).

And as for trickle down. Yes, it clearly works. You WOULDN'T HAVE A JOB if it didn't.

Trickle down schmickle down.

Do you really think this country is stronger than it was twenty years ago?

With a trade deficit that defies comprehension and the majority of our debt in foreign (mostly Chinese) hands?

With the middle class taking it coming and going, in the form of skyrocketing medical expenses, balooning college tuitions and declining financial aid?

With an economy that continues to pump its best jobs overseas, and lucrative tax breaks to companies that do so?

With a looming fiscal disaster that makes the auto industry bailout look like a pittance, thanks to the medicare/medicaid prescription drug act?

Do you really think we're better off?

This country is strong when the middle class is strong (which, by the way, is why I think unions are indespinsible, but that's for another time). I don't know if you have kids, but if you do, you can't help but wonder what they're gonna inherit once this is all over.

And, sure, I've got a job. All I'm saying is, the fact that so many more of us than ever before make our livings tending to the needs of the rich might not bode particularly well for the country as a whole.

 

[netjetwife]

RNO, my guess about the project soon to be unveiled does include combining the ops centers. There's no other way to save as much $ as fast, as far as I can see, and that is the redundancy problem. I just refer to the whole issue as the "integration", which certainly isn't limited to a VSL list...

Yes, I'm reading both boards right now, too. Not surprisingly, I notice the tone of hope and you comment on the anger, which I'd classify more as determination. (FI is good for getting different perspectives, huh...) Regardless of what we call it, I think the response is perfectly logical. When the hat is passed, donors have an expectation that the money will be used wisely, and there are watchdog organizations in our society that blow the whistle on fraudulent groups. The NJ pilots have a strong EBoard to act as their watchdog. Thank God! Can you imagine going thru this without a Union?!

To answer my own question, of course we can. We're surrounded by examples where the pilots have little or no input and managers hoard information like it's gold and thieves are at the door... Speaking of, how likely is it that the NJI pilots got an update ICOM?

 

[glasspilot]

Pay heed! Dooker may just be Dr. Ian Malcom (Jeff Goldblum) of Jurassic Park.

Henry Wu: "You're implying that a group composed entirely of female animals will... breed?"

Dr. malcom: "No, I'm simply saying that life, uh... finds a way."

They all thought he was crazy, but guess what...he was right. Dooker may just be right too.

 

[glasspilot]

Those of you who disliked Av8tr's post are misinterpreting it, I think. He wasn't against the PIC having a dream of owning a boat and living in an expensive home. It was the lack of SA--situational awareness-- If you're going to explain the acronym, why even use it? Just trying to sound "pilot-ish"? and total insensitivity that was upsetting.....

Look, I was not referring to just Av8tr's post. Bragging about how well you have it in front of a guy who's about to lose his job is bad form for anyone. I don't care if you're an office worker who just won the lottery going back to say, "suck it" to all the office staff or an NBA star hanging out at a soup kitchen to make fun of the stinky. Bad form no matter what.

My point was to the onslaught of people (NJW included) on this forum saying, very bluntly, that those who can, should, take advantage of the companies gracious offer and take an early retirement or LOA or something to SAVE JOBS!!!!

I say those who want to should. No one should feel obligated to step aside for anyone else. To say they should would be saying exactly what I said in my last post: "please quit your dream so I can have mine."

On a larger note; You all do realize that NJ isn't offering all these early out / LOA packages because they have a deep seated desire to help beloved pilots right?

If they furlough, then they furlough from the bottom of the list. That creates a massive re-staffing / re-training expense as they repopulate the furloughed positions across 8 fleets. The number I keep hearing is that NJ is 30% overstaffed. That means roughly %60 of the FO would need to go. That would be a huge expense. Think GAMillion's of dollars.

Enter the incentive package now in place. If they can reduce the numbers more or less evenly throughout the seniority list then they can save massive cash by not having nearly the bump and flush scenario that would ensue with out. Notice how the package is aimed at every level of the list. Coincidence? I think not.

Food for the soul. Go Dooker.

 

[gutshotdraw]

RNO, my guess about the project soon to be unveiled does include combining the ops centers. There's no other way to save as much $ as fast, as far as I can see, and that is the redundancy problem. I just refer to the whole issue as the "integration", which certainly isn't limited to a VSL list...

Yes, I'm reading both boards right now, too. Not surprisingly, I notice the tone of hope and you comment on the anger, which I'd classify more as determination. (FI is good for getting different perspectives, huh...) Regardless of what we call it, I think the response is perfectly logical. When the hat is passed, donors have an expectation that the money will be used wisely, and there are watchdog organizations in our society that blow the whistle on fraudulent groups. The NJ pilots have a strong EBoard to act as their watchdog. Thank God! Can you imagine going thru this without a Union?!

To answer my own question, of course we can. We're surrounded by examples where the pilots have little or no input and managers hoard information like it's gold and thieves are at the door... Speaking of, how likely is it that the NJI pilots got an update ICOM?

That would be ZERO.

Got the info from an NJASAP EB friend. Bad juju all the way around.

 

[Diesel]

I just read the ICOM on the NJ board. I understand the numbers are not for public eyes so I'm just inviting comments on the overall tone. I like the fact that right away RTS recognized the value of the labor-management process, and it seems that we're heading in the right direction--yeah! on saving jobs. (Yes, that was a cheerleader yell...)

Why then not just keep it on our own board? We don't need the public looking in on our own inhouse issues. NJI pilots can post in their own section, or talk about it in our own cockpits. If its because you feel your voice needs to be heard... or maybe agenda it doesn't. Keep it within your own homes, like the rest of us are doing, or on our own messageboards. There is no reason to poll the public unless you need to hear yourself.

God I'm glad my wife doesn't post on this board, of course the plane she flies, her min fuel is more than my plane weighs. So I guess she has better things to do.

 

[wolfpackpilot]

God I'm glad my wife doesn't post on this board, of course the plane she flies, her min fuel is more than my plane weighs. So I guess she has better things to do.

Does that mean her Johnson is bigger too?

 

[av8trinabarrel]

Those of you who disliked Av8tr's post are misinterpreting it, I think. He wasn't against the PIC having a dream of owning a boat and living in an expensive home. It was the lack of SA--situational awareness-- and total insensitivity that was upsetting. PICs have to know that these are worrisome times for many FOs. Thus, a show of moral support is more appropriate. At the very least you don't talk about your toys to a pilot who is wondering if he can keep food on the table and a roof over his family's head....:erm: especially when the FO had just been discussing what many would consider to be a personal nightmare...

Av8tr, you and the other pilots facing a possible furlough have my sympathy and support...also called "cheerleading" by some....

Direct Pitch Alert: In all seriousness, these are tough times for many junior pilots and some of them may not have close friends and/or family to confide in. Please take that into consideration when you're out on the road. Even those who don't bring it up first would probably appreciate some kind words and a show of moral support. Just sayin'...

Thanks NJW for the support. You hit the nail on the head. If a guy wants to buy 10 boats and a house...then by all means, go knock yourself out and buy it all. I have and never will ask for anyone to give up something to save my job. I would rather come back to the best job in flying in a few years rather than keep a mediocre job today. If someone does give something, I am the first one to thank them for the support. A little dose of humility is severly lacking among a handfull of our own. Maybe showing this old farts complete lack of financial planning may have rubbed some of you the wrong way, but that was not my intention. I hope his family enjoys that house payment long after he is goneimp:

 

[gret]

The model is dead, and always has been.

The objective was to get to get to a "critical mass" and they have achieved it, but they still lose money.

Netjets has made money 18 months out of their 20 years of their life.

RTS is a very smart guy, but it simply doesn't work.

Busines is down by 25% and that means they have to cut costs by the same amount. Do the math and that tells how many crewmembers have to go.

 

[gunfyter]

I guess that means Capitalism doesn't work. The economy shrunk 6.1% in the first quarter.

Somebody tell Adam Smith!

Hell we know Banking and auto manufacturing doesn't work.... Neither does Housing and Commercial Real Estate ... and credit cards ....

 

[netjetwife]

Look, I was not referring to just Av8tr's post. True, I guessed wrong, but your one-liner wasn't specific.
My point was to the onslaught of people (NJW included) on this forum saying, very bluntly, that those who can, should, take advantage of the companies gracious offer and take an early retirement or LOA or something to SAVE JOBS!!!! The only measure I mentioned specifically was the Paid Leave Bank, which would have the least affect on the individual pilot.

I say those who want to should. No one should feel obligated to step aside for anyone else. To say they should would be saying exactly what I said in my last post: "please quit your dream so I can have mine." Please point out the post (if one is there) that said that because I missed it. I have not suggested that anyone should leave, but since you brought it up: For those who are interested and ready, the early out is a great deal. Likewise, the 1yr LOA is an ideal opportunity for those who want to pursue another interest for awhile or just need a temporary break.

On a larger note; You all do realize that NJ isn't offering all these early out / LOA packages because they have a deep seated desire to help beloved pilots right? The Preventive Measures aren't limited to leaves; your misconception is probably the reason you've misinterpreted some posts on the issue. NJ employees are fully aware that flying is down and the company needs to "right-size", to use Mr. Santulli's term. He has also made it clear that the package is designed to do just that. It was offered to all employees. NJ families are fully aware of the situation; mine very much so. Glass, I didn't think you were a NJA pilot? Are you with NJI? If not, the reason for your lecture is even more mysterious...:erm:

If they furlough, then they furlough from the bottom of the list. Yes, we're all quite aware of that, especially those most at risk; but we also know it's the only fair way to do it. ...The number I keep hearing is that NJ is 30% overstaffed. That was too high even before employees started applying for the option of their choice.

Enter the incentive package now in place. If they can reduce the numbers more or less evenly throughout the seniority list then they can save massive cash by not having nearly the bump and flush scenario that would ensue with out. Notice how the package is aimed at every level of the list. Coincidence? I think not..

No it's not a coincidence, at all. The Joint Preventive Measures Campaign was designed to offer an incentive to every employee demographic. I think they did a good job. It was also intended to save jobs, as RTS notes in his ICOMs, but not just for pilots. BTW, the pilotgroup is kept well informed; NJASAP makes sure of that, so I can't imagine that any of them needed your explanation. I do hope it wasn't all for my benefit... Very ironic if so... considering I have a primary source of info at home.

Oh yes, one more question to answer....I first typed "SA" because that's how we say it at home and have for many years. I then typed the words out of consideration for the other non-pilot board members who may not be familiar with the term. I think my motivation is more logical than yours.

 

[netjetwife]

Thanks NJW for the support. ... You are entirely welcome to it! Please pass my sympathy and support on to our other NJ junior pilots. I would rather come back to the best job in flying in a few years rather than keep a mediocre job today. If someone does give something, I am the first one to thank them for the support. So I noticed... and believe me, it's appreciated. Alas, not everyone remembers to say thanks, which is unfortunate considering what a difference it can make to our hard-working NJASAP leaders and volunteers. ...imp:

Av8tr, you have a good attitude. I've heard other NJ pilots express the same opinion. During the contract battle, our deployed pilots often thanked those "at home fighting for our jobs" while they fought overseas. Fellow FI member, Semore, made very supportive posts here. It helped. (Thanks again, Semore! )

I know that NJASAP leaders and volunteers are determined not to lose any of the ground the pilotgroup has gained since 2005. (My husband was just talking about that after coming home from CMH). We all (pilots and family members) worked too hard and sacrificed too much to let it slip away. The EBoard is ready and willing to work with the Company on cutting waste, eliminating redundancies, and improving efficiency while those who take a LOA are away. If all goes well, they'll return to an even better NJA. Best Wishes to you and yours! NJW

 

[wolfpackpilot]

RTS is a very smart guy, but it simply doesn't work.

My marriage didn't work... But it doesn't mean I can walk away from the three kids it gave me.

Whats your point?



By the way... I got remarried. She is hot, educated, sweet, ornery and this one is gonna work.

 

[doh]

Dooker, about 8% of our debt is held by the Chinese. Hardly a majority of our debt. If you want to talk about out of control federal spending, which is driving our financial meltdown, I'm on your side. As far as aviation goes, those are amongst the last high paying manufacturing jobs in the USA. Would you have them go away? RTS eloquently defended our segment of the transportation industry. I say, more Santulli for all!

 

[gutshotdraw]

My marriage didn't work... But it doesn't mean I can walk away from the three kids it gave me.

Whats your point?



By the way... I got remarried. She is hot, educated, sweet, ornery and this one is gonna work.

Yes, she is and I hope it does. But it wouldn't have to do anything with her influence on your layovers, would it? I told her, no special treatment.....



Uh oh. I just guaranteed myself a lifetime at the Hasbeen Hilton....

 

[ozpilot]

By the way... I got remarried. She is hot, educated, sweet, ornery and this one is gonna work.

Congrats B! Glad to hear it! Is she rich too?

 

[wolfpackpilot]

Congrats B! Glad to hear it! Is she rich too?

She's working on it! MS from Purdue in Aviation Science Technologies...

I openly refer to her as my "retirement plan"

 

[jpeace02]

I don't want to take this down a bad path but tell me again why I shouldn't be bitter and pissed when I return from a 'forced' 3yr LOA?

We have 900 pilots (30%) that aren't doing anything. No "opt in" nothing. And guys on here telling me they're counting on this money! Well there's plenty of us that are counting on that money too like trying to stay in our house or maybe start a family. We've been applying for jobs now for over 3 months, sent hundreds of resumes out and not one interview and there are some here that don't want to get there feelings hurt because of "pressure," from the union or the junior people. BS give me a break, brother. I'm a union guy but this stinks. How can 900 pilots turn a blind eye on there brethern? If you worried about division now just wait till we come back from our furlough or forced LOA while you've been "opted in" for three years driving your God da&* boat all over Florida. This place will just be a thrill to work at, can't wait.

NJW, I truly appreciate your positive attitude but I just wish we could serious about saving everyone's job.

 

[Semore Butts]

Jpeace 02, What exactly do you expect of me?

"If you worried about division now just wait till we come back from our furlough or forced LOA while you've been "opted in" for three years driving your God da&* boat all over Florida"?

Division? Yes, I'm worried about it. I have a group telling me that senior pilots should quit to make room for the junior pilots? Why? So you can buy a "G-dam" boat drive it all over Florida?

Should the rest of us go on a hunger strike? Do you think that will change anything?

I'm writing your comments off as stress.

I hope you "fair well" Sir.

 

[realityman]

jpeace,

You're understandably incredibly stressed about the whole situation.

But if you're planning on coming back and raising hell for some perceived injustice visited upon you by our pilots, then perhaps you should turn your 3-year LTLOA into a more permanent situation.

Who are you gonna raise hell with? You going to poll every pilot in the company to find out who participated and who didn't?

I'm doing my part. Others are too. In the end though, it's not the PILOTS who would be putting you on the street. The pilots (even the ones who don't participate) didn't cause the economy to tank in a big way. The pilots didn't cause NJ's management to overhire in anticipation of aircraft that aren't showing up now. The pilots aren't selling back shares of these jets.

What the pilots you're hating so much DID do is vote in not one, but TWO contracts that gave the junior folks the biggest gains. The pilots (through union leadership) have created an unprecedented package to help ease a little of the pain for the folks who would otherwise have ZERO options and simply be out on the street with a bunch of their brethren.

You aren't being "forced" to do anything. Don't take any LOA and just accept the furlough. After all, isn't that the standard of how it's pretty much always been done everywhere else?

I truly am sorry that your choice is leave with a little pay and benefits, or leave with nothing. I am sincere in this sentiment. The common thread between the two is that you have to leave. But at least you have some choice.

But if you're planning on coming back here and acting like a total jerk, then perhaps you weren't a good fit here to begin with.