Video from CNBC-Santulli CEO NetJets

[netjetwife]

Ignore NJW when you don't feel like a dose of Kool-Aid that is what a lot of us do.

Now, you can get all sorts of pissed off if you want, but it doesn't change the fact that people are OPTing out. A lot of them.

Talk about mixed messages. You dismiss my post (with unnecessary rudeness...) and then turn around and validate the very concern which motivated it. For clarification, RNO, could you explain exactly what you see as Kool-aid. Is it my wish to avoid furloughs, which some may view as a normal part of the economic cycle? Or is it my support for the labor-management partnership-- that some NJ pilots still aren't convinced will work. BTW, you shouldn't equate optimism and a willingness to try a different approach with naiveté and blind faith. I follow things as closely as you do, but I'm a firm believer in the power of positive reinforcement and I understand that it can take a long time to cure bad habits and completely change a corporate culture.

 

[MasterOfYaw]

80% of the flights are more for personal reasons and 30% for business is the true breakdown. Go hang out in PBI.MVY.ACK,ASE,TEX, etc. and tell me otherwise.

90% of Americans never work. Go hank out at Disney Land, Fenway Park, Sea World, etc and tell me otherwise.

 

[RNObased]

Talk about mixed messages. You dismiss my post (with unnecessary rudeness...) and then turn around and validate the very concern which motivated it. For clarification, RNO, could you explain exactly what you see as Kool-aid. Is it my wish to avoid furloughs, which some may view as a normal part of the economic cycle? Or is it my support for the labor-management partnership-- that some NJ pilots still aren't convinced will work. BTW, you shouldn't equate optimism and a willingness to try a different approach with naiveté and blind faith. I follow things as closely as you do, but I'm a firm believer in the power of positive reinforcement and I understand that it can take a long time to cure bad habits and completely change a corporate culture.

I don't think I validated anything you said. Maybe Kool-Aid was the wrong word, cheerleading is closer.

I was making a point to captain zero that he can get mad all he wants, it isn't going to change what people are doing or have done with regards to the LOA.

 

[netjetwife]

Awwww come on realityman, give us a break, we all know that netjets wife means well with what she has said. I don't have any problem with any of it. I'm at the bottom of the seniority list and I highly encourage everyone to take part in the voluntary measures. In fact, I'll take it one step further, who in their right mind would OPT OUT??? And yes, I'm dead f-ing serious! I'm not asking anyone to take a reduced sched, nor longer vacations, extra unpaid days off...........but my gosh, to OPT OUT??? Now that pisses me off.

For those who aren't acquainted w/the Preventive Measures, '125 is referring to the process of turning pay for OT, holidays, etc into time off. Considering that OT is lower when flying is down and one's budget shouldn't rely on getting holiday pay, extended days, etc, then the actual support for the cause is something well within the ability of every pilot on the VSL. Opting in is a good example of lots of people individually giving a little that cumulatively adds up to a significant amount. It's also a great way to show moral support for fellow NJ families that may lose out tremendously if their peers refuse to play even this small supporting role. When you look at the situation this way, you can easily see why junior pilots (and those who support them) would become frustrated at the notion of NJ pilots refusing to help prevent furloughs.

Considering that many workers all across our country (including the frac industry) have had to take reduced hours/pay to keep their employers afloat, it is not unreasonable to think that NJA could truly use the financial help these days. Thus, it is in every NJ employee's best interest to do all they can to assure that NJA/I remains a secure place of employment. I'm not overlooking the fact that some in management have a (deserved) reputation for wasting money and acting like there's no need to watch the bottom line. Indeed, it's that attitude that places the Company at risk. The day of reckoning is fast approaching and I don't think that our junior NJ families should have to pay the price for the mistakes others made. I hate the waste as much as the next person, but if NJ pilots/families refuse to help out until every frivolous process in management has been corrected, then we're running a big risk of putting lots of innocent people in financial jeopardy. I think that now is the time to save jobs. After that important goal is met, NJASAP can, and should, address the management practices that have exacerbated a bad economic situation.

On the NJ message board, pilots regularly solicit donations for the charitable causes they support and for fellow pilots who are dealing w/emotionally and financially draining situations. How then can it possibly be unacceptable for others with a concern every bit as legitimate to ask for the same consideration. How can the wish to support a worthwhile cause or an individual family, out-weigh the importance of keeping NJA and hundreds of NJ families financially secure.... To me, it's totally unacceptable not to likewise make direct appeals on behalf of those facing the risk of losing their job. I'm every bit as serious as '125. NJW

 

[RNObased]

There is nothing to do with OT in that LOA. How you going to turn OT into days off??

 

[realityman]

F then the actual support for the cause is something well within the ability of every pilot on the VSL.

NJW,

This is EXACTLY what I'm talking about. Are you absolutely SURE about this statement? Have you personally gone over the personal finances of each and every pilot here? If not, then I'd say this is a pretty brazen statement to make, on ANY message board.

I can also think of a dozen reasons off the top of my head why a person may not be able to take advantage of ANY of the preventative measures. Yes, I fully understand the catastrophic consequences to the pilots and their families who may be furloughed (been there twice myself, and it ain't a picnic!), but it's well within the realm of possibility that someone may already be struggling, and just can't pitch in right now. After all, it's really only been a relatively short time that we've been making decent wages.

Now the high and mighty come out and start pressuring everyone to do something to help out. Now if the people that can't help out, for whatever reason, don't help out, you're setting them up for serious guilt, which ultimately turns to resentment. Seen it too many times to deny that's exactly what will happen. Sure, they may feel a little guilty without you pressuring them, but probably a lot more so with it. So this too may come back to bite us later when we may need the unity again.

On the other hand, maybe this pressure will cause people who really can't afford to take advantage of these measures to do so. Well great. It's for a good cause, right? Except if they really couldn't afford to do it, it may be causing a great deal of hardship for them and their families. More resentment and anger. Less unity later.

Just let people read the package and decide for themselves. I stick by my assertion that it's not a good idea to have folks whispering in their ear (metaphorically) to do it, do it, DO IT!!

 

[netjetwife]

RNO, I was referring to the provision of putting days into a pilot's Paid Leave Bank in lieu of money for any extended days or after-midnights. Technically, those are different from regular OT, I know, but I have a tendency to lump them all together. Sorry for the confusion. Thanks for keeping me accurate.

In the interest of helping my fellow board members understand my viewpoint on the JPMC, I remind them that my family has been through a furlough before so it is easy for me to put myself in the junior NJ families' shoes. I know mine isn't the only family out there with one parent staying home full time w/the children so it's easy for me to identify with the worry that our junior families must be feeling. On top of that, for months now my family has made the goal of preventing furloughs a top priority, and while my husband has never lost sight of the fact that the overall situation for NJASAP involves more than one issue, it has been easier for me and the kids to accept his frequent absences and constant Union work at home, with the consolation that it will help to save jobs.

When I think of the significant time and effort expended by all those involved w/the JPMC, not to mention the hundreds of jobs at stake, I can't help but think that the right thing for NJA/I families to do is remain opted-in and make a unified, good faith effort to follow the path laid out by the Company and Union that support all of us.

 

[BeeDubya]

There is nothing to do with OT in that LOA. How you going to turn OT into days off??

Hourly OT is not the issue. It's other forms of compensation above base pay -- maybe, generally, OT.

Hope this helps.

 

[RNObased]

Hourly OT is not the issue. It's other forms of compensation above base pay -- maybe, generally, OT.

Hope this helps.

Well I understand it perfectly because I read the LOA, front to back. If you want to call holidays and after midnights; OT fine call it that, I don't.

 

[netjetwife]

NJW,

This is EXACTLY what I'm talking about. Are you absolutely SURE about this statement? I'm sure that no one should rely on "extra" income they can't be SURE of receiving when building their budget. The opt-in provision doesn't change the base pay which is all that they can realistically count on. .... I can also think of a dozen reasons off the top of my head why a person may not be able to take advantage of ANY of the preventative measures. Yes, I fully understand the catastrophic consequences to the pilots and their families who may be furloughed (been there twice myself, and it ain't a picnic!), but it's well within the realm of possibility that someone may already be struggling, and just can't pitch in right now. ... During the contract battle, this same argument was made (in defense of those doing extended days) by some of the junior pilots (like my husband) who were paid far less than NJA FOs make now. He/we were made to understand that we had to do our part despite the financial hardship giving up that extra money caused for us. Many underpaid pilots/families managed then (on less) so I think today's better paid pilotgroup can, too. Once again, it's about doing what is best for the group, as a whole, instead of focusing solely on individuals.

Now the high and mighty (I would not characterize them that way. Did you also say that about those who tried to get pilots to stop extending prior to the 2005 CBA? Please be fair.) come out and start pressuring everyone to do something to help out. Like they did before. Then, and now, I see it as using persuasion (not pressure) and having a debate about what is the right thing for the NJ pilots/families to do. Now if the people that can't help out, for whatever reason, don't help out, you're setting them up for serious guilt, which ultimately turns to resentment. Seen it too many times to deny that's exactly what will happen. This could well be true for the most selfish members of the group, but it's unrealistic to expect 100% participation in a pilotgroup this size anyway. As we saw before, those who truly wish to help out but just can't afford to, will explain their reasons while still offering moral support of the plan. Sure, they may feel a little guilty without you pressuring them, but probably a lot more so with it. So this too may come back to bite us later when we may need the unity again. If history repeats itself, there will be a debate (mostly respectful) over the issue just as there was over the POSTA, the 2005 TA, and the 2007 IBB. On all of those, I stood with the majority and watched the pilotgroup become stronger for having done the right thing each time. I think a huge part of the NJ pilots' success as a Union has come from taking to heart the plight of those most junior on the list. Changing that formula now would cause far more loss to unity than having the internal discussion which should always precede an important decision.

On the other hand, maybe this pressure will cause people who really can't afford to take advantage of these measures to do so. Well great. Correction: I made a pitch for ONE measure--participating in the Paid Leave Bank. It's for a good cause, right? Absolutely! This isn't just about avoiding furloughs, as commendable as that is. NJA's financial strength, job security and protecting the brand name is in everyone's best interest. Except if they really couldn't afford to do it, it may be causing a great deal of hardship for them and their families. Their regular paycheck will not be affected and it is easy to opt in and out as circumstances dictate. Thus, there would be no real hardship at all. More resentment and anger. Less unity later. I think those who are prone to that level of animosity may already value unity less than the majority and can only be relied upon to go along with the group when an issue happens to serve their own individual interests.

Just let people read the package and decide for themselves. I stick by my assertion that it's not a good idea to have folks whispering in their ear (metaphorically) to do it, do it, DO IT!!

Had that code of silence prevailed during the POSTA debate and later during IBB, none of the NJ pilots would have the contract they presently enjoy and there would be some faces missing from the current EBoard, I'm sure. Silence on the issues is a precursor to apathy and we all saw what that got the NJ pilots. In contrast, clear communication, respectful debate and high participation forms the bedrock of any successful enterprise or relationship. Sincerely, NJW