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Net Jets to Furlough 500...??? Right...

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netjetwife said:
JJ, I think it would be a mistake for junior NJ pilots to plan their future based on your observation. :erm: We've all heard that it takes money to make money, so advertising when you need to increase demand for your service does make sense. If it works--great. If not, NJA is still left with more pilots than they need to meet current demand. Who seriously expects to be paid to stay home more than the occasional day? After all, we're in an economic melt-down, not just the normal slow period.
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And this......

Getting Paid Not to Work

by Jessica Dickler
Monday, May 4, 2009provided by
Some large law firms are putting their incoming associates on hold until the economy picks up, in return for a stipend of up to $80,000.
As many Americans are struggling to find a job, some are getting paid as much as $80,000 a year not to work.
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A number of third-year law students on the brink of graduation are being asked by their future employers to stay home for now - with pay.
Over 100 large firms, or firms with 200 or more attorneys, have delayed the start date for at least a portion of their incoming first-year associates, according to Above the Law, a blog covering the legal industry. The majority of those firms have delayed start dates into 2010, and provided some financial assistance to those on standby, Above the Law said, a move that doesn't come cheap.
Some students have been offered hefty stipends of up to $80,000, and even full benefits in some cases.
"The firms want to keep these people and don't want to lose them," explained Andy Stettner, deputy director at the National Employment Law Project.
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The normally recession-resistant industry of law has not been immune to the current economic downturn. So far over 10,000 jobs in the sector have been lost this year, according to the Labor Department's most recent data.
In previous years, well-performing summer associates have been extended offers in the early fall to start the following year, once they have completed school.
But in the past several months, some of the nation's largest law firms, including White & Case, Latham & Watkins and Skadden Arps are reaching out to their soon-to-be first years, who received offers last fall, and asking them to defer their start dates for several months, or even up to a year.
Instead of rescinding offers, as some large law firms did during the recession in the early 1990s, "the law firms are anticipating starting the 2009 associates when the economy gets better," according to Kim Fields, director of career services at Wake Forest University School of Law.
A Paid Vacation
For those eager to start their careers, and under the weight of hefty student loan bills, a deferment can be disappointing. The stipend may not be enough to cover the cost of living for a year in some expensive cities like New York or D.C., Fields noted.
Other students are considerably enthusiastic. Adam Rahal, 25, says he is "absolutely thrilled" about the opportunity to defer his start date until the fall of 2010. The Pace University third-year law student was offered $65,000 from Shearman & Sterling in New York to cover his expenses for the year.
"It's an awesome opportunity that they're willing to shell out that kind of money just to keep us happy," Rahal said.
"My friends in investment banking just lost their jobs. We're really lucky."
Over the course of the next year Rahal intends to volunteer at the international criminal tribunal or do environmental litigation instead of starting at Shearman & Sterling, earning $160,000 a year.
With signed contracts, deferrals are mandatory at some firms, while other deferment offers like Rahal's are voluntary. Some have a catch - that incoming associates are required to spend their deferment working at a non-profit or for one of the firm's pro bono clients. Other firms require no public interest work at all.
Overall, many agree that a paid deferment can be a win-win for students like Rahal and the firms that employ them.
"In the larger scope these students are quite lucky, they're going to be paid a perfectly decent salary and they can do what they want," said Rachel Littman, Assistant Dean for Career Development at Pace Law School in New York.
"It does give them an opportunity to do something they might not otherwise do, Fields said, particularly if that's "giving back to the community."
 
Hyflyin, I was thinking of the average frac pilot and my comment was primarily directed at the NJ pilots-- many posting/reading here are online friends, and some of them I've met in person. My family believes that it's much easier to build unity when you foster a sense of community so we do our part to make that happen. The camaraderie in the NJ pilotgroup, and recognition of the supporting role played by the families has significantly contributed to their success.

Those are great boots and fun to wear, but I probably could use a lighter look for the summer, huh? Maybe they're looking too hot for the season...;) In the meantime, another photo for a change of pace....
 
netjetwife said:
Hyflyin, I was thinking of the average frac pilot and my comment was primarily directed at the NJ pilots-- many posting/reading here are online friends, and some of them I've met in person. My family believes that it's much easier to build unity when you foster a sense of community so we do our part to make that happen. The camaraderie in the NJ pilotgroup, and recognition of the supporting role played by the families has significantly contributed to their success.

Those are great boots and fun to wear, but I probably could use a lighter look for the summer, huh? Maybe they're looking too hot for the season...;) In the meantime, another photo for a change of pace....
Click to expand...

JK= Just Kidding

I was bored, late night looking for a job before July 2 rolls around and I get the "not so sexy" boot (you know, voluntary furlough, I mean, "leave");) .

Carry on.
 
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Hy, I can appreciate that it might feel that way to you, but the "boot" could be much uglier and your landing (if it does happen) much harder. Having health care benefits and money to put a roof over your head is far more than most pilots get.

I think being proactive is a good idea. This is certainly a time to hope for the best while you prepare for the worst. Maybe enough pilots and other employees may request LOAs and reduced scheduling before July. One never knows... Good Luck!
 
netjetwife said:
Hy, I can appreciate that it might feel that way to you, but the "boot" could be much uglier and your landing (if it does happen) much harder. Having health care benefits and money to put a roof over your head is far more than most pilots get.

I think being proactive is a good idea. This is certainly a time to hope for the best while you prepare for the worst. Maybe enough pilots and other employees may request LOAs and reduced scheduling before July. One never knows... Good Luck!
Click to expand...

Quit counseling and just chuckle a bit. For me personally it will take a lot more than the loss of a little brick, mortar and health insurance to drag me down.

Take care, off to hunt for a job.
 
Just got the word. We will begin interviewing again in July/Aug. If you have your resume' already in, update them now. Looks like we will be hiring around 250 over the next year.

Also, keep this between us flightinfo folk, we don't want this getting out.
 
flagshipper said:
how bad is a foreclosure?
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flagshipper,

I am assuming you are going to have to foreclose on your house? VERY sorry to read that. Would you have been furloughed had you stayed at CS? I know we have spoken in the past and am just curious as to if the current furlough at CS would have reached back far enough to affect you? I think I have heard they are going back to January of 08 with the 48 or so they have furloughed.

Just curious. Thanks.

BTW, best of luck to you man. That has got to suck. One of my nightmares, actually. Glad I am in the military now. My thoughts and prayers are with you and everyone else losing their jobs in this economy.

Change we can believe in. What a ********************ing joke....lol.
 
Turbo, my empathy for furloughed pilots doesn't quite run to that..:eek: but if one of the NJ pilots needed to borrow my boots (small foot required) I might be persuaded to loan them out...;) A Jack Sparrow look alike could do quite well for himself among the ladies...:p


In all seriousness, Flag, I do hope that you're just trying to predict a worst-case scenario for planning purposes? I echo 7777's sentiments and encourage every NJ employee, who possibly can, to find some way to participate in the Joint Preventive Measures Campaign. I do believe that furloughs can be avoided at NJA/I if everyone will pull together. I also think the extra time off could be used to great advantage. NJW
 
netjetwife said:
Correction: to keep them from NEEDING TO. Had NJA actually wanted to furlough pilots they could have done so already like other frac companies have recently done. Your mention of generosity and cooperation, Gunfyter, are spot on.

We're seeing a high return on the investment of time and effort put into the Labor-Management partnership. Success in this joint venture will pay huge dividends in the future. The resultant increases in loyalty, trust, etc would be the silver lining in this economic cloud.

Glass, I like analogies and I think your's is a fitting one for the situation. It does, indeed, appear to be the methodology they're using. To continue your water theme...:)

The smooth sailing previously enjoyed by the NJ families has been disrupted by economic storms. We've hit rough waters and the USS NetJets has sprung a leak. Now is the time for all hands to grab a bucket and start bailing together. Teamwork is the answer.
Click to expand...


NJW, for over 3 years now I've seen you write posts like this. You've painted these rosy pictures of unions and all they do for the world, but you won't talk about the fact that the union at NJ has cost the company millions of dollars and forced an overstaffing of the company which in turn is putting pilots out of work, voluntary or not.

Buffet's baby has more than sprung a leak, hell, it's overloaded too. This "preventive measure" is nothing more than a voluntary furlough at a time where no pilot can afford to be out of work. How many of these pilots gave up decent flying jobs to go to work at NJ with the rosy picture the union was painting for the future? How many of these pilots were hired because the work rules forced more pilots per airplane than any other frac in the industry?

Yeah, y'all have to pull together, to bail your own butts out of the mess your union put you in to.

If the contract had done it's job, these "preventive measures" would have never been needed to the extent they are.
 
Forced overstaffing? You haven't been paying much attention to the market, have ya there skippy? Maybe you could explain why Citation Shares and Flex, both non-union, had to furlough? They didn't have a contract that forced the company to do anything............... :erm:
 
B19 Flyer said:
NJW, for over 3 years now I've seen you write posts like this. You've painted these rosy pictures of unions and all they do for the world, but you won't talk about the fact that the union at NJ has cost the company millions of dollars and forced an overstaffing of the company which in turn is putting pilots out of work, voluntary or not.

Buffet's baby has more than sprung a leak, hell, it's overloaded too. This "preventive measure" is nothing more than a voluntary furlough at a time where no pilot can afford to be out of work. How many of these pilots gave up decent flying jobs to go to work at NJ with the rosy picture the union was painting for the future? How many of these pilots were hired because the work rules forced more pilots per airplane than any other frac in the industry?

Yeah, y'all have to pull together, to bail your own butts out of the mess your union put you in to.

If the contract had done it's job, these "preventive measures" would have never been needed to the extent they are.
Click to expand...


lololololol


if you are so againts this then go make a diffrence b19, only you can change things. only YOU can di it. crying to us about it wont change it.

go make it so we dont need a union. Otherwise you are just wasting time.

only YOU can change things.
 
B19 Flyer said:
NJW, for over 3 years now I've seen you write posts like this. You've painted these rosy pictures of unions and all they do for the world, but you won't talk about the fact that the union at NJ has cost the company millions of dollars and forced an overstaffing of the company which in turn is putting pilots out of work, voluntary or not.

Buffet's baby has more than sprung a leak, hell, it's overloaded too. This "preventive measure" is nothing more than a voluntary furlough at a time where no pilot can afford to be out of work. How many of these pilots gave up decent flying jobs to go to work at NJ with the rosy picture the union was painting for the future? How many of these pilots were hired because the work rules forced more pilots per airplane than any other frac in the industry?

Yeah, y'all have to pull together, to bail your own butts out of the mess your union put you in to.

If the contract had done it's job, these "preventive measures" would have never been needed to the extent they are.
Click to expand...
The pilots, who are NJASAP, have made NetJets HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of dollars. Not LOST. Try again. I love proving you wrong.
 
If everyone would quit replying to B19's post he then would be just typing and make his baseless points to himself and do everyone a favor and leave. It would be like when he was a child back in school on the playground everyone ignored him and never picked him for games he was off playing and talking to himself
 
Outta Here said:
If everyone would quit replying to B19's post he then would be just typing and make his baseless points to himself and do everyone a favor and leave. It would be like when he was a child back in school on the playground everyone ignored him and never picked him for games he was off playing and talking to himself
Click to expand...
Quote:
Originally Posted by skanza
Go ahead with GerryG and C425Driver in thinking that I'm B19. It helps with the obscurity and you'll never know the reality of it because you won't accept it. You may be able to find a post by each on of us on different threads at the same time - how would one guy do that? Carry on.

I still think unions were a short term solution that turned into a long term problem.

Is Toyota or Honda closing any plants/dealerships? (Not that the unions are to blame totally, but they sure didn't help = legacy costs, unrealistic wages [$40/hr to put wheels on? Really?], etc...)

You responded in the 1st person to an attack on B19, because you forgot which alias you were logged in with. You can't misdirect, or obfuscate that one away, you trickery troll you. You are busted.:beer:
We've been responding to someone that appears to have two different screen names, and an agenda not original to himself.
B19/skanza=busted=no validity
 
I'm still trying to figure out how a 60 ish + pilot taking the early out is "putting a pilot out of work" as our "friend" puts it. Attention. Attention. A pilot that age would be CONSIDERING RETIREMENT ANYWAY and this is a great way to pull the plug on their career while benefiting themselves AND those pilots junior to them. This program is good for the company AND good for the pilots.

BTW Mr. 19, NJI is STILL a non-union company (for another 18 months) and the "union bad, non-union good" argument doesn't hold water in this economy. The entire industry, union or not, is in the middle of a major correction. I'm no union cheerleader and have my concerns (and hopes) for the future of NJI as it transitions to a union shop. But I must say that the NJASAP leadership has exhibited remarkable pragmatism, flexibility, and cooperation with the company in dealing with the market conditions. NJASAP AIN'T the UAW, the Teamsters, or any other old-school, intransigent, angry union.

One more BTW: new reports from NJI management indicate the "early out" option has been more popular than expected and they actually might not be able to accomodate all the requests.
 
gutshotdraw said:
I'm still trying to figure out how a 60 ish + pilot taking the early out is "putting a pilot out of work" as our "friend" puts it. Attention. Attention. A pilot that age would be CONSIDERING RETIREMENT ANYWAY and this is a great way to pull the plug on their career while benefiting themselves AND those pilots junior to them. This program is good for the company AND good for the pilots.

BTW Mr. 19, NJI is STILL a non-union company (for another 18 months) and the "union bad, non-union good" argument doesn't hold water in this economy. The entire industry, union or not, is in the middle of a major correction. I'm no union cheerleader and have my concerns (and hopes) for the future of NJI as it transitions to a union shop. But I must say that the NJASAP leadership has exhibited remarkable pragmatism, flexibility, and cooperation with the company in dealing with the market conditions. NJASAP AIN'T the UAW, the Teamsters, or any other old-school, intransigent, angry union.

One more BTW: new reports from NJI management indicate the "early out" option has been more popular than expected and they actually might not be able to accomodate all the requests.
Click to expand...




I hope this is true. If that's the case, then lets offer some NJI transitions to the overstaffed NJA group to make sure everyone's request is eventually granted.
 

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