Net Jets to Furlough 500...??? Right...

[B19 Flyer]

I think that pilots who have school-age kids would welcome the chance to work less days during the summer. They could help the Company save jobs while spending more time with their family. What's not to like about that?

Considering that one and three year LOAs are being offered, I'd be very surprised if the reduced schedules weren't planned for the Oct-Jan trimester. It doesn't sound as though they're expecting a quick-fix....

If Netjets wasn't trying to staff as heavy as they needed to because of the CBA, then they folks would not only be spending time with their kids, they would have full paychecks also.

You are trying to spin a bad situation into a good one, it's not happening. Beneath all of the rhetoric, families are trying to figure out how they are going to handle their career. First are the voluntary packages, then the furloughs, then the concessions.

Traditional route... this isn't knew, it's just a smokescreen for failed union policy that simply took too much money up front. NJASAP wasn't going to take a pay cut to help the company, nope... let everybody else go first and see what is left. They call it voluntary, but we all know that it's a layoff/furlough.

I'm getting a kick out of watching these boards right now, I don't even have to post to watch all the nonsense and turmoil all of you said couldn't happen.

NJ is losing a lot of man-hours for a company that's not furloughing.

I'm curious... let's go over all of the losses from the rest of the fracs so we can compare how deep this will cut into NJ before it's over....

 

[brokeflyer]

well you said before you wanted to know if our union would open up the CBA to change things to prevent job-loss.....that is exactly what we did.

We ARE taking a pay-cut. You dont work here so you dont have all the details, but take it from me. We are changing the entire CBA to save jobs COMPANY wide, not just union employees....it's pretty cool what is happening. Basicly they said we need to change things or we're gonna furlough, we said ok, lets change it.

So how can you say that now?

you cant have it both ways. Im taking a major pay cut to prevent a lay-off, and I'm glad I am.

Be happy.

 

[RNObased]

deleted

 

[RNObased]

If Netjets wasn't trying to staff as heavy as they needed to because of the CBA, then they folks would not only be spending time with their kids, they would have full paychecks also.



I'm getting a kick out of watching these boards right now, I don't even have to post to watch all the nonsense and turmoil all of you said couldn't happen.

Really, we hired to cover the CBA is that so B19. It couldn't be we hired because of aircraft orders for '09, that have now been put off, because of one of the worst economic downturns in history. That couldn't be it, could it smart man. Also nevermind the 18 day schedule, let's not even pull at that one, because that shoots down your theory also.

Next you are going to tell us that you perdicted this economic downturn and knew it was coming, and Netjets, Flex, and FLOPS should have seen it coming.

I realize you are getting a kick out of this, that is how you roll. People's suffering is funny in your twisted little world.

 

[RNObased]

You'd be surprised. I'm very senior here at NJA. (been here over 12 years) Currently on the 7/7. However, the chance to actually work LESS each month, but make MORE than my present salary has got me looking hard at bidding the 18-day. I think the prediction that the 18-day will go very senior will be closer to the truth.

Oh, I'm sure some will. Not everyone will though. Do I think that bottom 10% of the capts will be able to hold it, probably not. But will the top 40% bid it and that will be it, no way.

Lately they have been less good about giving people what they want on the 18 day. That will keep some off, and there is no guarantee that the company will keep that option open. The bid will be after the buyouts, LOA and etc are sorted out and coming into the busy season, I could see them closing that one off. Time will tell though.

 

[gunfyter]

If they close it off ... there better not be any furloughs! It would mean they don''t have ENOUGH pilots!

 

[theskyking]

If Netjets wasn't trying to staff as heavy as they needed to because of the CBA, then they folks would not only be spending time with their kids, they would have full paychecks also.

You are trying to spin a bad situation into a good one, it's not happening. Beneath all of the rhetoric, families are trying to figure out how they are going to handle their career. First are the voluntary packages, then the furloughs, then the concessions.

Traditional route... this isn't knew, it's just a smokescreen for failed union policy that simply took too much money up front. NJASAP wasn't going to take a pay cut to help the company, nope... let everybody else go first and see what is left. They call it voluntary, but we all know that it's a layoff/furlough.

I'm getting a kick out of watching these boards right now, I don't even have to post to watch all the nonsense and turmoil all of you said couldn't happen.

NJ is losing a lot of man-hours for a company that's not furloughing.

I'm curious... let's go over all of the losses from the rest of the fracs so we can compare how deep this will cut into NJ before it's over....

What a stupid post. So, because the company hired pilots based on projected demand during a vibrant economy, it is the unions fault that there is a joint effort reaction to an unprecedented economic downturn.

How did the union take too much up front? During the economic environment in which the CBA was signed, the company was making money hand over fist. Now that the economy has turned sour, the company and the union have worked together to present a revolutionary plan to ensure both the health of the company and the financial security of the employees. Funny, if this is such a bad package for the company, how they are modeling what they offer to all the employees off of the NJASAP negotiated package. And, since all the other employee groups are following our package, it logically follows that NJASAP was the first to seek relief to help the company out.

I'm done wasting my time with you. Manager's reception here at the Embassy is almost over so I've got some business to attend to. I understand your anti-union rhetoric, but you completely discredit yourself (again) when you don't acknowledge that some unions can create positive results in trying times.

 

[brokeflyer]

don't bother....he's just mad because the union and company worked together to benefit EVERYONE.

He was expecting the union to tell the company to go fck themselves.....but that didnt happen.

now it appears that, well, i dont know what he's trying to do now.

forget it....lol

 

[gunfyter]

19,

So the problem is NJ has had to staff to high levels because of the CBA? Now they need to "unstaff"?

Wouldn't the solution be to adjust the CBA to require even more staff? Then everyone would be needed and no staff reductions would be necessary....

Quick ... someone call President Obama .... I think we just found the solution to unemployment in this country....

 

[pilotyip]

This is not flame bait, please do not take it as such. But the bottom line is; will those who do not have any threat to their position voluntarily give up their income for the benefits of others. There appears to be plenty of worry in the junior guys that they will be on the street this year. How do I know as I said I have about 20 friends working there I have gotten calls wanting to know where are the jobs and who might be hiring. They are worried. I sincerely hope there is an attitude of gracious sacrifice for the benefit of all that prevails. But history has shown there a great deal of I paid my dues, I got mine, too bad for you.

 

[jegermeister]

I sincerely hope there is an attitude of gracious sacrifice for the benefit of all that prevails. But history has shown there a great deal of I paid my dues, I got mine, too bad for you.

Pilot I hope you're wrong, but my gut tells me you're not. There are plenty here that will take one for the team, but in the end I question if there will be enough to step up to the plate to save those of us on the bottom.

I just had breakfast with a guy that won't give up what he's earned in the contract. I never let on to him about my position on the list and just let him go on.

 

[DAS at 10/250]

There appears to be plenty of worry in the junior guys that they will be on the street this year.

That is an accurate statement.

 

[gunfyter]

Yip,

40% of the pilots work the 18 day schedule. 50% work the 7&7 schedule.

18 day schedule pays about 19% more for flying the line 25% more days than the 7&7. Pilots get more money and the company gets a discount on per day cost of fly days. This man-power was needed at the time the CBA was written. However, with reduced flight demand ... these work days are NOT needed even at the discount.

The major measure offered that will reduce these excess man days is the 14 day schedule which 18 day pilots can voluntarily choose. For every 3 ... 18 day pilots who switch ... one more 7&7 pilot is needed to make up the reduced days worked....

If 900 pilots switch ... you now need to retain 300 7&7 pilots you did not need before.

Why would 18 day pilots switch and earn 18% less pay? How about they work 48 FEWER DAYS per year? Its nice to earn more money but if you figure out how much harder and how much per extra day it really is ... most will conclude as i have ... that money iss NOT worth it. Plus you save another guy's job.

The 18 day schedule sucks and was demanded by the company in negotiating the 2007CBA. Nobody likes that schedule... they only like making a little more money. This new 14 day offer is the BEST schedule we offer....

So it will not depend upon the goodness of peoples hearts to reduce man-days ... it will be QOL vs earnings.

We re NOT asking anyone to sacrifice anything... we are offering attractive choices that will also help solve the staffing level.

 

[brokeflyer]

This is not flame bait, please do not take it as such. But the bottom line is; will those who do not have any threat to their position voluntarily give up their income for the benefits of others. There appears to be plenty of worry in the junior guys that they will be on the street this year. How do I know as I said I have about 20 friends working there I have gotten calls wanting to know where are the jobs and who might be hiring. They are worried. I sincerely hope there is an attitude of gracious sacrifice for the benefit of all that prevails. But history has shown there a great deal of I paid my dues, I got mine, too bad for you.

yes, at least I did. And many others I know are.

 

[netjetwife]

From a family perspective, I agree with Gunfyter 100%. More time at home is a gain, not a loss. Furthermore, the pilots who don't care about those junior to them (a minority at NJA as IBB showed) will be motivated by their own self-interest to avoid the possibility of a downgrade and/or to help the company that provides their income.

For the NJA/I pilots, I think the idea of supporting those who have supported them is a basic concept that will be well demonstrated. When employees are treated respectfully and compensated fairly they are willing to go the extra mile for the employer. Likewise, the pilots know that NJASAP has worked tirelessly on their behalf and that supporting the measures their leaders helped to design is a show of good faith that has been earned many times over. I predict that the Joint Preventive Measures Campaign will be successful because the NJ families will recognize that it's the right thing to do.

Together Everyone Accomplishes More

 

[HazMat]

pilotyip

I suspect they are just seeing if there is anything else out there. I think they are trying to find out if they take the voluntary leave if there is some other flying job out there to make up the income loss. Many in the bottom 25% probably realize they are at risk and are looking hard at the voluntary leave. I hear we have received many phone calls seeing if jobs are available. Tough decisions for all involved I am sure

 

[RP170]

well you said before you wanted to know if our union would open up the CBA to change things to prevent job-loss.....that is exactly what we did.

We ARE taking a pay-cut. You dont work here so you dont have all the details, but take it from me. We are changing the entire CBA to save jobs COMPANY wide, not just union employees....it's pretty cool what is happening. Basicly they said we need to change things or we're gonna furlough, we said ok, lets change it.

So how can you say that now?

you cant have it both ways. Im taking a major pay cut to prevent a lay-off, and I'm glad I am.

Be happy.

And being in the bottom 300 or so I say "thank you." I really appreciate your generosity.

 

[netjetwife]

To clarify, the contract is not being changed. NJASAP and the Company made the preventive measures available thru a Letter of Agreement (LOA) signed by both parties. The new options were designed to augment the CBA and are entirely voluntary. Saving jobs at the same time makes it a true win/win situation.

Yes we will see some of the NJ families choose to trade money for additional time off, but there are no mandated pay cuts. Those pilots who prefer the status quo can have exactly that because their CBA remains unchanged.

The partnership between NJASAP and NJA is not limited just to the contract. They have an on-going relationship which enables them to address new issues and work together for mutually agreeable solutions.

 

[pilotyip]

This most likely worries many

Those pilots who prefer the status quo can have exactly that because their CBA remains unchanged.

Is for the "The I got mine, I don't need to share the pain crowd"? A test of the union brotherhood looking out for each other.

 

[gunfyter]

The I got mine ... that would be the non-union shop.


Where would your buddies (former studs) be right now if they stayed at USAJet? Would they still be employed?

The Pilots did not create over-staffing ... We simply help offer solutions.