Informational Stapling Compass to Delta Website

[relief tube]

Wow. Correct me if I'm wrong, but back when Northwest existed, didn't those guys that rolled the dice at compass do so for "preferential interviews/hiring" at NWA? They were never on NW's list, right?

So why are these fellas half-expecting the "priviledge" of getting on Delta's list? You all rolled the dice with an independent NWA, not what exists now. Compass has been around for what, a year and a half? Good luck- wish I could dream as well.

 

[SpauldingSmails]

Wow. Correct me if I'm wrong, but back when Northwest existed, didn't those guys that rolled the dice at compass do so for "preferential interviews/hiring" at NWA? They were never on NW's list, right?

So why are these fellas half-expecting the "priviledge" of getting on Delta's list? You all rolled the dice with an independent NWA, not what exists now. Compass has been around for what, a year and a half? Good luck- wish I could dream as well.

That's not 100% accurate. When NWA existed, as under the current DAL structure the offer is not for "preferential interviews/hiring", its for flow-through rights. You are correct in that we never have been on the NW seniority list however.

I don't think any of us are "half-expecting the privilege", but can you blame us for being excited at the prospect of this possibly happening!?

 

[relief tube]

hey, if you all get it, really good for you all.

And really bad for the rest of us- could kiss the chances of a job at delta goodbye before 2020.

time'll tell

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Well. The benefits that CPZ have is/are that the NWA pilot group held them really close.
Same goes for Mesaba. They have a great working relationship with the NWA MEC. I hope that continues.
As for the other DCI carriers. Wholly owned airlines will be the first to be looked at. As for the others, time will tell.
FWIW, after 2012, there are going to more than enough positions open here at DAL. Now you may have to go to a 170 or the like, but the movement will be swift.

 

[mynameisjim]

I see why everyone at DL would like this, but why would anyone at Compass want to be stapled to DL. When DL furloughs all at Compass will be on the steet and DL pilots will be in those seats for a long time

I would happily trade a furlough for a Delta seniority number.

 

[NuGuy]

Well. The benefits that CPZ have is/are that the NWA pilot group held them really close.
Same goes for Mesaba. They have a great working relationship with the NWA MEC. I hope that continues.
As for the other DCI carriers. Wholly owned airlines will be the first to be looked at. As for the others, time will tell.
FWIW, after 2012, there are going to more than enough positions open here at DAL. Now you may have to go to a 170 or the like, but the movement will be swift.

Heyas ACL,

Great point. NWA pilots, and now all DAL pilots, own the seats at Compass. They were bought and paid for by fNWA concessions. The situation is completely different than at any other carrier.

The NWA/XJ relationship has always been cordial, with great communications. The flow agreement between the two is pragmatic. It should be noted that the only pilots to flow so far have been XJ pilots, and they were very much welcomed, even after the normal hiring pipeline had stopped.

IMHO, other groups may have made enemies on both sides of the fence, and that can't be good in the long run.

Nu

 

[Fly4hire]

I see why everyone at DL would like this, but why would anyone at Compass want to be stapled to DL. When DL furloughs all at Compass will be on the steet and DL pilots will be in those seats for a long time

And if DAL furloughs they will all be on street, with or without a staple. If they flow up, they go right to the bottom of list. I think most would rather have recall rights to DAL instead of CPZ

 

[IFLYIMC]

And if DAL furloughs they will all be on street, with or without a staple. If they flow up, they go right to the bottom of list. I think mist would rather of recall rights to DAL instead of CPZ

Your statement is not 100% correct, in that CPZ pilots not stapled to DAL list would only allow 90% of the CPZ pilots to be displaced. If DAL wants to staple us to the bottom then DAL can have all the seats...By the time DAL figures out how many they are going to furlough and those who elect to come to CPZ go through training and put online, it would be roughly 18 months before DAL pilots take those seats...Not to mention only if DAL doesn't staple CPZ to the bottom only around 175 or so are going to be CA at 2nd year rate which is pay cut for all of you coming over! If you still want to come over after all the CA seat are filled you can plan on the cut being even more than that roughly 75% pay cut just so you can have job flying and say I pushed CPZ pilots to the street! Now if you staple then I'm sure at some point in time MEC will negotiate pay rates for the 175...Then CPZ looks even better for DAL pilots to hang their hat on...

 

[ACL65PILOT]

I would happily trade a furlough for a Delta seniority number.

Well you better make that point known. There are a few of your fellow pilots that want to splinter from the MEC, or get their own union.
After this happens you can bet that they will want to cancel the flow. (This could prove easier than you think) We at DAL would then have to allow it and not reduce the number of 76 seat jets.
This would create another CMR, that wants more flying to help the career progression.
It would get rid of a lot of financial incentive that DAL has not to furlough, as well as another piece of the CBA that makes it cost money.
Having a separate MEC is in effect a real money and career looser for anyone on either list. Look three or four steps further down the road, and if a seperate MEC is created you will just be another regional with out a flow.

 

[NuGuy]

Well you better make that point known. There are a few of your fellow pilots that want to splinter from the MEC, or get their own union.
After this happens you can bet that they will want to cancel the flow. (This could prove easier than you think) We at DAL would then have to allow it and not reduce the number of 76 seat jets.
This would create another CMR, that wants more flying to help the career progression.
It would get rid of a lot of financial incentive that DAL has not to furlough, as well as another piece of the CBA that makes it cost money.
Having a separate MEC is in effect a real money and career looser for anyone on either list. Look three or four steps further down the road, and if a seperate MEC is created you will just be another regional with out a flow.

Heyas ACL,

The word I've been hearing is that CMR, in it's present form, is not long for this world.

Think Piedmont, but without the nitch markets and without the fall back turboprops.

It's not easy to outsource turboprop flying...not a lot of players in that market. Outsourcing RJ flying, OTOH.

Nu

 

[flyboyike]

My other fear is that if we staple Compass, the Comair pilots will use this as a springboard to once again try and force their way on to our list, and I want no part of that.

I agree, that would be a tragedy. Fear the Comair pilot!

 

[Buzo]

Your statement is not 100% correct, in that CPZ pilots not stapled to DAL list would only allow 90% of the CPZ pilots to be displaced.

I think the 100% is correct until CPZ pilots get to choose whether they want to flow-up, and only 10% are protected if they decline. Since no one has had that choice yet, I believe DAL still gets 100% until that point.

 

[IFLYIMC]

I think the 100% is correct until CPZ pilots get to choose whether they want to flow-up, and only 10% are protected if they decline. Since no one has had that choice yet, I believe DAL still gets 100% until that point.

DAL gets only 90% period whether a CPZ choose to flow or not....If a CPZ pilot is offered the flow he has 45 days to decide, if he/she decides to stay at CPZ all the flow downs flow around that CPZ pilot...

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Heyas ACL,

The word I've been hearing is that CMR, in it's present form, is not long for this world.

Think Piedmont, but without the nitch markets and without the fall back turboprops.

It's not easy to outsource turboprop flying...not a lot of players in that market. Outsourcing RJ flying, OTOH.

Nu

Correct, I see OH going Oh Oh.
We just need to realize that packaging up CPZ and getting something for it does not solve our problems.
Why do you think we only have 15 737-700's on order? The 175 and 195 can do all of its flying.
This my friends is not an option. It is a must to keep our narrow gauge flying on property.

We are willfully giving this away. Something the company will let us do, but will let us regret it too.

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

DAL gets only 90% period whether a CPZ choose to flow or not....If a CPZ pilot is offered the flow he has 45 days to decide, if he/she decides to stay at CPZ all the flow downs flow around that CPZ pilot...

No CPZ pilots have been offered flowthrough, though.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

looks like there is new stuff on http://combinecompass.com

 

[mynameisjim]

Well you better make that point known. There are a few of your fellow pilots that want to splinter from the MEC, or get their own union.
After this happens you can bet that they will want to cancel the flow. (This could prove easier than you think) We at DAL would then have to allow it and not reduce the number of 76 seat jets.
This would create another CMR, that wants more flying to help the career progression.
It would get rid of a lot of financial incentive that DAL has not to furlough, as well as another piece of the CBA that makes it cost money.
Having a separate MEC is in effect a real money and career looser for anyone on either list. Look three or four steps further down the road, and if a seperate MEC is created you will just be another regional with out a flow.

As a probie FO with no vote to proxy, and working the day of my LEC meeting, there's not much I can do. I've written my reps.

 

[Blade Runner]

The DAL pilots will need to create a real relationship with the 'regional' MEC's and the CMR and Mesaba pilots will need to learn to get a long.

CMR and XJ Pilots get along just fine. It's the DAL pilots we are concerned about.

 

[Scope out RJ's]

CMR and XJ Pilots get along just fine. It's the DAL pilots we are concerned about.

Blade:
Not sure if you're CMR or XJ. But looking at things, if you're cmr, you might want to start looking for a new line of work! And thank the senior cmr types for the perdicament they put you in today

 

[Buzo]

DAL gets only 90% period whether a CPZ choose to flow or not....If a CPZ pilot is offered the flow he has 45 days to decide, if he/she decides to stay at CPZ all the flow downs flow around that CPZ pilot...

Which letter are you reading. I am trying to find the language.

 

[IFLYIMC]

No CPZ pilots have been offered flowthrough, though.

No one is hiring, so no flow. We do have at least half a dozen eligible to flow. The next batch of eligible flows is another six months...

 

[IFLYIMC]

Which letter are you reading. I am trying to find the language.

Here you go;
Feeder Carrier Affiliate pilots who elect protected right status:

a. Must do so within forty-five (45) days after their notification of an employment opportunity at Northwest; (1) By doing so, the Feeder Carrier Affiliate pilot will (except as provided in paragraph D.2.c. below) permanently forfeit any future employment opportunity at Northwest Airlines provided by the flow through agreement with Northwest Airlines and Compass Airlines.

b. A protected rights Compass Airlines pilot shall be senior at Compass Airlines to any pilot flowing down from Northwest Airlines subsequent to the employment of the protected rights pilot at Compass Airlines.

c. No more than ninety percent (90%) of pilot positions will be preserved for Northwest Airlines pilots (a "preserved position"). No more than ten
22-3 Section 22 - Seniority July 26, 2007
percent (10%) of pilot positions will be preserved for pilots electing protected rights status (a "rights status position") at Compass Airlines. In the event of a reduction in the total number of positions at Compass, the number of "preserved positions" and "rights status positions" will be adjusted to maintain the nine to one (9:1) ratio. "Rights status" will be removed from pilots in reverse seniority order and such pilot will again have flow rights to Northwest.
3. Compass Airlines pilots will be offered employment at Northwest Airlines before any other Northwest Airlines Affiliate Carrier or new hires from the street directly to Northwest Airlines.

 

[FBN0223]

I When DL furloughs all at Compass will be on the steet and DL pilots will be in those seats for a long time

Those seats never belonged to Compass pilots in the first place.

Resolutions should be based solely on recapturing ALL outsourced flying starting with the EMB175. If that includes bringing Compass pilots on to our Delta list then I see no problem. But no sacrifices should be made on behalf of the Delta pilot group. Our priority is to recapture our flying not to hand out seniority numbers.

 

[Superpilot92]

I think the 100% is correct until CPZ pilots get to choose whether they want to flow-up, and only 10% are protected if they decline. Since no one has had that choice yet, I believe DAL still gets 100% until that point.

This is correct. No one has been offered the flowthrough so 100% of the seats are available.

 

[Buzo]

Here you go;
Feeder Carrier Affiliate pilots who elect protected right status:

a. Must do so within forty-five (45) days after their notification of an employment opportunity at Northwest; (1) By doing so, the Feeder Carrier Affiliate pilot will (except as provided in paragraph D.2.c. below) permanently forfeit any future employment opportunity at Northwest Airlines provided by the flow through agreement with Northwest Airlines and Compass Airlines.

b. A protected rights Compass Airlines pilot shall be senior at Compass Airlines to any pilot flowing down from Northwest Airlines subsequent to the employment of the protected rights pilot at Compass Airlines.

c. No more than ninety percent (90%) of pilot positions will be preserved for Northwest Airlines pilots (a "preserved position"). No more than ten
22-3 Section 22 - Seniority July 26, 2007
percent (10%) of pilot positions will be preserved for pilots electing protected rights status (a "rights status position") at Compass Airlines. In the event of a reduction in the total number of positions at Compass, the number of "preserved positions" and "rights status positions" will be adjusted to maintain the nine to one (9:1) ratio. "Rights status" will be removed from pilots in reverse seniority order and such pilot will again have flow rights to Northwest.
3. Compass Airlines pilots will be offered employment at Northwest Airlines before any other Northwest Airlines Affiliate Carrier or new hires from the street directly to Northwest Airlines.

This doesn't go into effect until DAL is hiring and people decide to stay at Compass. As of right now, DAL gets 100% of the seats.

 

[Blade Runner]

Blade:
Not sure if you're CMR or XJ. But looking at things, if you're cmr, you might want to start looking for a new line of work! And thank the senior cmr types for the perdicament they put you in today

I'm XJ, We had a very good relationship with NWA MEC and would very much like that to continue with the DAL MEC. Time will tell.

 

[ROSWELL41]

I think it would be a good start to get Compass on the DAL list.

Everyone seems to knock a few guys who don't want the staple at Compass. What if these F/O's in question came to Compass looking for a quick upgrade to go to FDX, UPS, SWA? Maybe they want the PIC time and really don't want anything to do with Delta. The staple would essentially tie them to Delta permanently or force them to look elsewhere to get PIC time. No, I don't work for Compass. Just food for thought.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Roswell,

I think (only 80% sure) an SLI would require member ratification at some point. That pilot could vote.

As for a FO looking for a quick upgrade, how is that going to work at an airline with a 36 jet fleet that is not going to grow under Delta's scope? The best way for this FO to see growth is to hope for a merger which would free Delta to exercise its 36 E175, or E190 options AT MAINLINE.

It is unlikely that many (if any) mainline pilots would bid to Compass unless to improve quality of life, bases or commuting. This push is really about job security, Delta mainline growth, and closing a scope loophole.

... and lets not get confused and think a single list is right around the corner. If (a big IF) the MEC decided a single list policy benefited its pilots, it would be either a management decision to merge the lists, or a item the union had to negotiate.

Many think (me included) that management has economic reasons to consolidate Compass and mainline. But if that is not the case, it might drag all the way out to Section 6 four or five years from now.

I think it is most likely Compass will be split from the MEC, which is the first step in packaging the entity up for a cancellation of the bridges that bind Delta and Compass together. The flow & job protections will be traded away for some trinket that supposedly benefits the entire pilot group.

This "combine compass" effort is hoped to educate pilots so they see that the greatest value to our pilot group is Compass itself, or in a word, "unity." If we decide that we may want to pursue a single list in the future, that answers the question whether we want to split Compass away now.

We have another door of opportunity that is closing. If (a big IF) the pilots at Delta (and Compass since they are represented by Delta) decide that one list is worth pursuing then it holds the door open for unity.

 

[BOHICAgain]

This is correct. No one has been offered the flowthrough so 100% of the seats are available.

Yup he is correct again. As of today 100% of the seats belong to DAL pilots.

This month the first 2 line pilots become eligible. We have a handful of managment pilots eligible already but they are probably going to stay put.

 

[~~~^~~~]

I'm XJ, We had a very good relationship with NWA MEC and would very much like that to continue with the DAL MEC. Time will tell.

Don't interpret "combine compass" as in any way excluding you, CMR, or any other group.

Compass has a representational question that needs to be answered in the very near term. A door of opportunity may be closing. If the door is held open for Compass, that sends a signal to other bargaining groups and enhances the relationships between bargaining groups.