Jetblue Pilots Vote Union Down

[Andy Neill]

Ok, I guess I wasn't clear in my original posting. What percentage of the list cast a ballot?

33%...

 

[Frap]

33% put their vote on a ballot which had only one choice, that being a "yes to union" vote. There was no "no" choice on the ballot.

Not casting a vote on the ballot equalled a "no" vote.

 

[ultrarunner]

Ok, that makes sense...

Only 660 pilots voted....

1400 voted no by not voting.

Seems like a pretty strong message.

 

[Andy Neill]

Ok, that makes sense...

Only 660 pilots voted....

1400 voted no by not voting.

Seems like a pretty strong message.

The actual count was
1937 eligible
0 ballots voided
595 for JBPA
49 for ALPA
1 for Silence
1 for UTU (646 total for representation)

Here's the NMB link:
http://www.nmb.gov/electionresults/jetblue-jpa_02-03-09.pdf

 

[Dan Roman]

Anyone at Nortwest/Delta that can confirm or deny the rumor that the names of BOB's is circulating the forums?

If this is true it could be an ugly commute

Only if they were one of the BOB. I have no problem with peoples wide range of opinions on Unions. This is America and we are all entitled to our opinions and beliefs. But keeping a list of pro union pilots is unbelievable. To do what? Rat them out to management so anti-union pilots can upgrade quicker? I don't know, but the concept is so anti-American and Hitler youth mentality that it blows my mind. The right to vote for a union is one of the freedoms we have as Americans. It's one of the many freedoms we enjoy that countless Americans have died for to protect.

 

[Deli Guy]

Where was ALPA as far as stepping in and making their pitch? When the interest cards were submitted, I expected ALPA to set up some type of informational meetings to recruit for ALPA. Why did that not happen? I really respect the JBPA guys, but I had hoped ALPA would show some interest in the process.

 

[radarlove]

ALPA is very weak-d!ck when it comes to organizing new groups. They demand an overwhelming majority of postcards (the first phase) before they'll even consider "accepting" the new pilot group into the fold, there's never talk these days of actually doing a real organizing drive.

In this case, they probably weren't willing to touch it with a ten-foot pole, there was probably only a 33% card campaign.

ALPA is dying a slow death because they are resting on laurels that are two decades old. I'm already hearing of budget cuts because of the unions that have left the fold.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I have talked to all of my buddies at jB about the vote. All were in favor of a Union but many were concerned about the next chapter if the Union were voted in.

It didn't seem like the pilot group had much confidence in a new Union with no clear agenda or leaders. Many pilots stepped up to organize a vote but many pilots did not know who the actual leaders would be.

I bet the vote for many was a NO simply because they didn't know exactly what YES was a vote for. Sometimes bad in hand is better than the unknown behind door #1.

Organization... clear an simple organization is something to definitely have for the next drive. .

This is actually quite pathetic.

We call ourselves Americans?

We call ourselves professional pilots?

We don't don't know to self motivate? Self legislate? Self govern?

What is the fear? that we will all have to actually do something?

Did those who vote for union representation at jetblue expect someone else to do all the work?

People do not reject the status quo unless change is perceived to better....

I thought we lived in America.... you know the greatest democracy in the world... self rule, self government....


The next chapter after voting in a union is manning up and taking control of your careers....

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

ALPA is very weak-d!ck when it comes to organizing new groups. They demand an overwhelming majority of postcards (the first phase) before they'll even consider "accepting" the new pilot group into the fold, there's never talk these days of actually doing a real organizing drive.

Why should ALPA spend dues money trying to organize a pilot group that is on the fence or clearly doesn't want ALPA?

In this case, they probably weren't willing to touch it with a ten-foot pole, there was probably only a 33% card campaign.

ALPA burned allot of bridges with TWA and USAIR pilots now at jb..... make sense?

ALPA is dying a slow death because they are resting on laurels that are two decades old. I'm already hearing of budget cuts because of the unions that have left the fold.

Not sure about that.... with FX and CAL back, I say the APA comes back to ALPA within 20 years....

As adamant as the APA currently is not to be ALPA, 20 years is relatively close.... what will push the APA to ALPA is the the international market threats...

foreign ownership, cabatoge, work visas for Mexicans to fly our jets...

 

[Bob_Sacamano]

Be careful what you wish for, gents. You just may get it.

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

While far from a ALPA cheerleader, any union is only as strong as their volunteers. Then once guys volunteer(usually is the same guys) they are constantly criticized from the bleachers. As far as TWA did they not waive their scope?? And now it is ALPA's fault. Their own leadership did this. It would not have been any different had they been independent. Usair guys would not budge from doh, which they were warned was not going to happen. How is this ALPAs fault?? They went for the homerun, lost and then renaged on their word as far as BINDING ARBITRATION. Truely disgusting.. Question for the easties?? If you would have recieved doh without any fences and the immediate upgrades from excersising your seniority out west what would be your reaction if the west had refused to honor this?

 

[Fubijaakr]

Excellent points, Cobra. When things go south, people tend to blame ALPA National for the errors of their local MEC. ALPA National advises. They can't make an MEC do anything. We had a no-strike clause for 25 years. Did ALPA National like it? NO! Did they make us change it? No again.

And as far as the East guys go, do you think that if they had gotten DoH they would have jumped ship? They would have praised ALPA to high heaven while telling the AWA guys to TRY and decertify if they didn't like it knowing all the while AWA didn't have the votes to do so.

 

[Hair-on-Fire]

. To do what? Rat them out to management so anti-union pilots can upgrade quicker?

Are you really that dumb? ( I think you are) Um, we don't upgrade based on merit. I bet you blame other races or women when you fail.

The JBPA group presented their case and only 33% accepted it. Quit being a baby and deal with it.

 

[Fubijaakr]

The JBPA group presented their case and only 33% accepted it. Quit being a baby and deal with it.

True. As much as I was hoping JBPA would succeed, the majority of the pilots there voted by NOT voting. No vote was counted (and always is) as a NO vote.

Considering the number of furloughed ex-ALPA and ex-military with no other airline experience on the seniority list, the result isn't really all that much of a surprise.

 

[oldxfr8dog]

True. As much as I was hoping JBPA would succeed, the majority of the pilots there voted by NOT voting. No vote was counted (and always is) as a NO vote.

Considering the number of furloughed ex-ALPA and ex-military with no other airline experience on the seniority list, the result isn't really all that much of a surprise.

I hate to agree with you Fubi, but you're right.
I was one of the 646, but I've heard many of the mil guys lobbying against it.
They have their retirement and insurance so screw the rest of us.
I guess maybe they would say "Screw them, I'm RTB'ing", if one of their squadron mates was in trouble and needed help?