ABX Furloughs

[shooter]

Bueller?.........Bueller?.........Bueller?........

 

[727Niteflyer]

why is it everyone believes they are entitled to a severence or retention ? Arent you entitled to what the contract says and if the abx chooses to pay you anymore than its just a plus.

 

[DC-9er]

We're ALL out of a job. Those that are getting furloughed now and the rest when ABX gets shut down.

The stock market is smarter than any one man, and the market says this place won't survive. 20 cents a share and you think there's a future here?? Gimme a break.

 

[laserman2431]

At the meeting, The local president responding to a question about why not distribute the money evenly by saying "A junior dc9 fo is at a different place in life than most likely the 767 captain, a DC9 captain. They have a different standard of living." He later went on to say "The job has a certain value and you are where you are." Does that mean that the DC9 FO's need to feed and clothe his family; to put a roof over their heads and provide medical care is less important? That was an appalling statement.

Regarding the future of the company, the local president said "I'm not going to say we're going to grow back to where we are now, but, I think were putting the pieces in place to grow this airline back um we all know the stumbling blocks to doing that but um I think we have the pieces in place to grow it."

 

[shooter]

why is it everyone believes they are entitled to a severence or retention ? Arent you entitled to what the contract says and if the abx chooses to pay you anymore than its just a plus.

If ABX were paying it, sure. But this is DHL paid.

They need people doing what they do until DHL does not need it any longer or DHL would not have anything moving at all. So, they put money on the table for people to stay until the end. Many (or all) will lose their jobs when it is over so they also elected to do the right thing and provide a severance for those people. So everyone should be getting a DHL retention for staying until the end and those that do not have jobs will (should) get a severance. ABX as already said the number of job losses would bankrupt them and they could not afford to pay it. This is DHL funds.

 

[TWA]

Just remember all of the older guys who have lost a big chunk of their retirement, especially if the ship sinks. I can understand why they feel any money from DHL should be dispersed by seniority. It's just about game over for a lot of those guys, even with age 65.

EDIT: Also, the projected post DHL pay scale is not that great looking. Everyone loses something.

 

[shooter]

At the meeting, The local president responding to a question about why not distribute the money evenly by saying "A junior dc9 fo is at a different place in life than most likely the 767 captain, a DC9 captain. They have a different standard of living." He later went on to say "The job has a certain value and you are where you are." Does that mean that the DC9 FO's need to feed and clothe his family; to put a roof over their heads and provide medical care is less important? That was an appalling statement.

Regarding the future of the company, the local president said "I'm not going to say we're going to grow back to where we are now, but, I think were putting the pieces in place to grow this airline back um we all know the stumbling blocks to doing that but um I think we have the pieces in place to grow it."

I hope you guys get it worked out and it is the right thing. It sounds like they are handling this lump of DHL funds as one thing when it it really two. One for retention for staying on and one for those who get severed.

Good luck.

 

[laserman2431]

why is it everyone believes they are entitled to a severence or retention ? Arent you entitled to what the contract says and if the abx chooses to pay you anymore than its just a plus.

Are you suggesting that nobody should get the severance?

 

[727Niteflyer]

for .20 a share, the union should by the darn company, fire Joe and pay out the severance. If they can make a go at it doing charter work all the better, but our biggest problem "no vision Joe" along with his equally vision challenged lower management would be gone. Imagine how much more instep the whole company would be with vested workers calling the shots, and not worried about their "bonus" check for this quarter. I know a pipe dream, I have heard all the reasons why it wont work. Of course the people who say it would not work all have a vested interest in keeping the status quo.................., now if we could only get a bailout for the cargo industry.

now that is typical. Lets see us pilots now own the compay, first thing is we give everyone raises, hotels need to be nicer, max 6 hour duty days, everyone off for holidays and did I say pay raises.

Pilots cant run airlines, all ego.

 

[DC-9er]

It's called Severance and Retention

DPWN Holdings (USA), Inc. ("DHL") and ABX Air, Inc. ("ABX"), which is a wholly owned subsidiary of Air Transport Services Group, Inc.
("ATSG"), entered into a Severance and Retention Agreement (the "Agreement")
pursuant to which DHL will reimburse ABX for certain costs incurred in providing severance, retention and other benefits to ABX's employees whose employment is terminated in connection with DHL's implementation of its U.S. restructuring plan.

http://biz.yahoo.com/e/080820/atsg8-k.html

 

[727Niteflyer]

Are you suggesting that nobody should get the severance?

It would be nice if everyone could keep their job. What Im saying is what makes everyone think they are entitled to a severence ? A lot of companies go out of business. People dont get severence or retenton.

How much does the average abx pilot make ? Id like for one of you guys making 200 k a year go to a ramper and tell them your entitled to a severence.

that would be funny

 

[DC-9er]

It would be nice if everyone could keep their job. What Im saying is what makes everyone think they are entitled to a severence ? A lot of companies go out of business. People dont get severence or retenton.

How much does the average abx pilot make ? Id like for one of you guys making 200 k a year go to a ramper and tell them your entitled to a severence.

that would be funny

Listen pal, you really have no idea what you're talking about. But just to confuse you more, the rampers ARE getting a severance

 

[laserman2431]

It would be nice if everyone could keep their job. What Im saying is what makes everyone think they are entitled to a severence ? A lot of companies go out of business. People dont get severence or retenton.

How much does the average abx pilot make ? Id like for one of you guys making 200 k a year go to a ramper and tell them your entitled to a severence.

that would be funny

But I'll tell you what I AM entitled to. When the union local assumes the responsibility of negotiating on my behalf, I AM entitled to fair representation!

 

[727Niteflyer]

Listen pal, you really have no idea what you're talking about. But just to confuse you more, the rampers ARE getting a severance

They should. But whether anyone is entitled to it is another story.

Didnt ryan have an issue when they were doing postal years ago before the fedex deal. If I remember right postal paid a large amount for pilot pay. Ryan just paid the normal salaries and nothing more. I think the pilots sued or tried to sue and lost.

The point is your only entitled to what is in the contract. Management knows they will be able to operate the airline because pilots love thier jobs. You very rarely see a shutdown in aviation at the hands of pilots unlike other industries (UAW).

Im not trying to pour salt in the wound but look at the situation. Everyone knew this day was coming. The day it was announced everyone should have shut it down and negotiated a severence package while the airplanes were parked. Thats how you get things, dont move the freight.

 

[laserman2431]

It's called Severance and Retention

DPWN Holdings (USA), Inc. ("DHL") and ABX Air, Inc. ("ABX"), which is a wholly owned subsidiary of Air Transport Services Group, Inc.
("ATSG"), entered into a Severance and Retention Agreement (the "Agreement")
pursuant to which DHL will reimburse ABX for certain costs incurred in providing severance, retention and other benefits to ABX's employees whose employment is terminated in connection with DHL's implementation of its U.S. restructuring plan.

http://biz.yahoo.com/e/080820/atsg8-k.html

I think that statement referred to employees who were not in bargaining units.

 

[laserman2431]

With pilots getting ready to hit the street there may be pressure to do something quick. It's better to take the time to do things right than to rush into a decision that cannot be reversed.

 

[mxer]

727, Your a little out in left field. There are a lot of differences between us and Ryan. DHL had agreements that they backed out of. That is why severences are being offered to pilots, rampers, and possibly the county. (airport donation, if it happens) The severence that you say we are not entitled to, has already been earmarked by DHL for the pilot group. The discussion then is not if we deserve it or not. The discussion is on the perameters that it will be disbursed. Not trying to slam you. From the outside looking in, the view is probably a bit different.

 

[FastHap]

I think that statement referred to employees who were not in bargaining units.

From the Form 10Q filled 14 NOV 08

"...ABX has begun to discuss and negotiate termination and wind-down costs with DHL, including employee severance and retention arrangements. In August 2008, ABX and DHL executed a severance and retention agreement. The agreement specifies employee severance and retention benefits that DHL will pay to ABX in conjunction with its U.S. restructuring plan. DHL will reimburse ABX for the cost of non-union employee severance and retention benefits paid in accordance with the agreement. The same agreement includes provisions to pay ABX for crewmember benefits if ABX and the collective bargaining unit for the crewmembers can reach an agreement in regards to the use of those funds for severance, retention or other issues arising from DHL’s U.S. restructuring plan."

http://yahoo.brand.edgar-online.com...122-117515&type=sect&dcn=0001193125-08-235609

 

[727Niteflyer]

727, Your a little out in left field. There are a lot of differences between us and Ryan. DHL had agreements that they backed out of. That is why severences are being offered to pilots, rampers, and possibly the county. (airport donation, if it happens) The severence that you say we are not entitled to, has already been earmarked by DHL for the pilot group. The discussion then is not if we deserve it or not. The discussion is on the perameters that it will be disbursed. Not trying to slam you. From the outside looking in, the view is probably a bit different.

All Im trying say is, Just like the ryan deal I dont think ABX is obligated to pay you anymore than whats in the contract. If ABX decided to take the money earmarked for the pilots and disperse it to the rampers or people that make far less than the pilots I think they can do that. I think personally that would be ther right thing to do. You guys made a ton of money you had a good contract.

I think the only people that would have a right to dispute it would be DHL. That would be between DHL and ABX.

The point that I was trying to make between Ryan and ABX was the entitlement to extra funds for the Pilot group. Both companies were provided funds specifically earmarked for the pilot group. Ryan didnt distribute any of it, and they were not obligated to. So the question is, is ABX obligated to ?

 

[mxer]

And what I contend, is YES they are. It is not their money. Currently, that money belongs to DHL. It is up to DHL, not ABX, as to rather that money will be disbursed. I don't claim to know any details of Ryan, but if they did something wrong, then that doesn't make it right for ABX to do the same. ABX is nothing more than the disburser of the funds. By DHL insisting that the pilot group and the the management agree on this disbursement should prevent the management from taking it for their own agenda. In theory. Doesn't seem to be quite working that way.