Real Men of Genius....The ASA MEC

[Caspian27]

Rez & PCL,

When are you going to realize that the best way to educate people about the benefits of unionism is by promoting the benefits of unionism, not by a culture of insult & intimidation to a group that could use representation?

If you were truly for helping all pilots you wouldn't be insulting OO pilots or calling them leeches on CREWpass. Maybe a better tactic would be, "Look what we did to get CREWpass. We know you're not members yet, but we'd sure like you to be because of the many benefits we can offer, not to mention the aero-medical services we can provide. CREWpass is just an example of what we do...enjoy it, and remember that next time you vote for representation."

Your attitude and insults turn off more people than it turns on to ALPA every time your post.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

All you do is use SkyWest as a whipping boy to further your agenda. I think you need to find a subpar regional with no union representation if you are trying to recruit some zombies. It might be more convincing.

Not looking for zombies...

Looking for professionals who want to participate in democracy and make the career better...

Trying to keep your head down and being threatened by management just for a quick upgrade and 1000PIC turbine is short sighted and selfish.... it hurts all of us...

When a union career is more probable than not, why not start out as a professional?

Use OO as a whipping boy? Maybe, but in reality they have made their own choices... because I call them out on the choices they've made and the identity they've sought.. doesn't mean much... it is what it is....

OO pilots are good guys no doubt... but how many times does one snub the profession all while taking from it?

 

[Goose Egg]

I see you guys in the terminal... looking like clones. At least get a tie tack... you guys look silly with your 1950's thin SLICK ties. Get a CRJ tie tack, or an American flag (you do believe in democracy don't you?)... just something so you don't look like you just go popped out of the mold and pushed off the assembly line of Jerry's factory...

Spoken like someone who's just p.o.'d and looking for a whipping boy. But hey, if you're p.o.'d, I guess you've just gotta hate someone.

The Burka leach rationale is selfish... OO pilots just want their quick upgrade, keep their heads low, and move on to a......... union carrier...

Well, I can't speak for my co-workers, but there is only one airline, union or otherwise, that I would want to "move-on" to, and it isn't even ALPA represented. What does that tell ya? And I doubt very much that my upgrade time will be significantly different than the average... definitely not what I'd call "quick" at any rate.

And my head isn't low--I still have a job!

Why do you expect ALPA to be a total efficient machine of free market barriers and protectionism in a hyperconsumption race to the bottom economy that has gone global?

That's rich! I love how the ALPA stand when the industry is going well is "Look how much ALPA has done for the industry! Everything that is good is due to us!" And then when the industry is in the crapper, the line is "Why do you expect ALPA to [blah blah blah]... we can't fix everything." Why do we expect ALPA to be a total efficient machine of free market barriers and protectionism? Because they claimed they could offer that during the last upturn!

Well, which one is it? You're either responsible or you're not.

...You have responsibility as a dispatcher. How'd you like it if someone came by your desk/computer and started chiding your job? It would be easy to question fuel loads, alternate airports etc.. if one could just have to walk away and not have to justify choices...

You've obviously never been a dispatcher.

You want respect but you aren't willing to give it...

I, for one, am not looking for respect on an internet website.

-Goose

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Rez & PCL,

When are you going to realize that the best way to educate people about the benefits of unionism is by promoting the benefits of unionism, not by a culture of insult & intimidation to a group that could use representation?

If you were truly for helping all pilots you wouldn't be insulting OO pilots or calling them leeches on CREWpass. Maybe a better tactic would be, "Look what we did to get CREWpass. We know you're not members yet, but we'd sure like you to be because of the many benefits we can offer, not to mention the aero-medical services we can provide. CREWpass is just an example of what we do...enjoy it, and remember that next time you vote for representation."

Your attitude and insults turn off more people than it turns on to ALPA every time your post.

Just my 2 cents.

After multiple union drives I think the OO pilots know exactly what they are doing....

They've been given information on unions and the profession and they don't seem to care... all they care about is themselves right now....

We've told them about the benefits. But they seem interested in getting the milk for free.. why buy the cow. Let someone else buy it.

Despite the fact the they know very well that sooner or later they are going to join a union.... unless they stay at OO forever...

Volunteers give a lot of time, energy and effort to make the profession better... it doesn't sit well when one does all the work and another comes along and benefits from your hard work... when you politely point out the effort you've made you get irrational jeers and the proverbial middle finger....

Here is what OO pilots take from ALPA but don't give..


CREW PASS
FFDO
FMLA legislation
Jumpseating system including CASS
PIC Authority
NAS modernization
Criminalization of pilots
Safety and Engineering (GPWS/TCAS)
Security

the list goes on....

And then OO pilots pulled that jumpseat letter threat... So... you call me out for chiding OO pilots yet its ok for those guys to use the jumpseat as political weapon...

How long do let someone mooch off of you all in the hopes that someday they will join the profession as you smile and they flick you off? Then two mins later they turn around and wonder what the issue is and why they don't get respect?


If you are going to call me out... fine... I responded.. but call out the OO pilots too....

 

[Caspian27]

Not looking for zombies...

Looking for professionals who want to participate in democracy and make the career better...

Trying to keep your head down and being threatened by management just for a quick upgrade and 1000PIC turbine is short sighted and selfish.... it hurts all of us...

When a union career is more probable than not, why not start out as a professional?

Use OO as a whipping boy? Maybe, but in reality they have made their own choices... because I call them out on the choices they've made and the identity they've sought.. doesn't mean much... it is what it is....

OO pilots are good guys no doubt... but how many times does one snub the profession all while taking from it?

Rez,

You really have no clue what the motivation of the pilot group is. Outside of MKE and ORD the Captains are very senior. There is no quick upgrade.

Oh, and it was EVERY UAX carrier except TSA that started the jumpseat thing. Not just OO.

I just don't get you Rez. It's the same rhetoric always. Never a definitive answer on anything.

The OO pilots aren't flicking you off. They work hard and care about their profession. And it shows from the performance numbers. You however, obviously aren't smiling...as you say you are.

 

[Goose Egg]

And then OO pilots pulled that jumpseat letter threat... So... you call me out for chiding OO pilots yet its ok for those guys to use the jumpseat as political weapon...

That was ALL the UAX carriers except one, dumbass. More specifically, it was the jumpseat commitees of ALL the UAX carriers except one. The rank and file had very little to do with it. I certainly wasn't asked about my opinion on the subject.

-Goose

 

[Goose Egg]

Let me guess.......you must fly the 'Bro".

So let me get this straight...

1. You love Trek bikes.
2. You don't know a damn thing about cyclocross OR singlespeeding.
3. AND you wouldn't know an incredibly busy and demanding airplane if it taxiied up and hit you in the rear.

The hits just keep on coming. Freakin' roadies.

-Goose

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Rez,

You really have no clue what the motivation of the pilot group is. Outside of MKE and ORD the Captains are very senior. There is no quick upgrade.

Then what is the justification for rejecting ALPA? Please reference the list of benefits that posted earlier like jumpseating and FFDO...

Oh, and it was EVERY UAX carrier except TSA that started the jumpseat thing. Not just OO.

The point? Sure it was wrong of every carrier except TSA to do it... but that doesn't mean it was less wrong for OO pilots...

I just don't get you Rez. It's the same rhetoric always. Never a definitive answer on anything.

I thought my last reply to was very definitive.. how was it not? What is clearly definitive is OO pilots benefit from ALPA but do not contribute.. they freeload.

The OO pilots aren't flicking you off.

Don't we as individuals get to decide how we perceive something? To the average ALPA member the OO issue is really not a big deal. To the volunteers who work the issues it is a big deal...

Keep in mind ALPA doesn't need OO for any reason except for unity and effectiveness. Like most regionals, OO pilots would benefits more than ALPA would.. but it is still the right thing to do.. to have OO represented...

They work hard and care about their profession.

I don't doubt they work hard. And one reason they are willing to do that is because of unions... They are indirect recipients of the benefits...

As are regular union members. Union pilots can show up fly and go home.. not because their managements are great but because the unions have fought for protections... to not appreciate that and not to protect it and defend it is self detrimental..

And respectfully, I don't consider the OO pilot professionals.. Sure they work hard, operate to a high standard.. but they don't have to Code of Ethics, no safety program, no training commitee, no human factors, no protections and they don't work to make the job better....

And it shows from the performance numbers. You however, obviously aren't smiling...as you say you are.

What does performance numbers have to with it? All performance numbers do is give management a bonus.


So you are saying the its OK for the OO pilots to benefit from ALPA and not contribute?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

That was ALL the UAX carriers except one, dumbass. More specifically, it was the jumpseat commitees of ALL the UAX carriers except one. The rank and file had very little to do with it. I certainly wasn't asked about my opinion on the subject.

-Goose

As I said earlier... it doesn't make it ok for OO pilots just because others did it....

The problem with the rank and file at OO is what are they going to do about it?? Nothing....

They don't have an MEC chairman or LEC rep to work the issue.. How do OO pilots remove a jumpseat chairman for making such a screw up?


At least the other carriers have self governance and representation....

 

[Goose Egg]

They don't have an MEC chairman or LEC rep to work the issue.. How do OO pilots remove a jumpseat chairman for making such a screw up?

At least the other carriers have self governance and representation....

Which I will agree that we need at SkyWest... My point was never that we don't need representation. We just don't need it from ALPA.

-Goose

 

[XPOO]

How do OO pilots remove a jumpseat chairman for making such a screw up?

Why does anyone need to be removed? United had 18 months to solve that problem. After the ultimatum it took less than two weeks. Looks like it got the job done to me.

 

[Caspian27]

Rez,

I could tell you all the reasons why I think OO is a good place to work, but I'll spare you. You've heard it before.

I'm all for furthering the profession. I'm all for protection. I'm all for helping my fellow pilots out and volunteering. I'm not against unions. But the union doesn't define this workplace, and the unity you think you have by being a member doesn't exist. Another pilot would kick you in the teeth to move up a few seniority numbers even if they're both ALPA and you know it. (Again see Republic/Northwest, America West/USAir, AA/TWA)

In reference to the UA jumpseat thing, you appear to disagree with how it was handled. But was what UA mainline did with changing the priority any better?

 

[XPOO]

In reference to the UA jumpseat thing, you appear to disagree with how it was handled. But was what UA mainline did with changing the priority any better?

If you ask Rez that question he will tell you that UA owns those regional jumpseats and has every bit of authority to use it as they sit fit. Spare yourself.

 

[Goose Egg]

Why does anyone need to be removed? United had 18 months to solve that problem. After the ultimatum it took less than two weeks. Looks like it got the job done to me.

Actually, that's a very good point. I didn't think anyone should have been removed either.

I thought it was wrong of Rez to initially single out OO for the jumpseat letter, when it was all the UAX carriers except for TSA. How convenient to leave that part out. And then to blame the ENTIRE pilot group for it, when, right or wrong, the actions taken were due to the decisions of the jumpseat commitee alone. And if he has a problem with the actions of the jumpseat commitee of OO, then he has a problem with the jumpseat commitees of every UAX carrier (including the union represented ones) except TSA.

Rez seems to display this hatred for the ENTIRE pilot group, including those who have had little to do with the things that he finds so disagreeable. I think he faults us merely for working where we do--that alone is a grevious enough offense.

What would you have us do? Rez? Quit and work somewhere that's more "union friendly" in the name of this mythical state called "solidarity?" Sure, I'd be out on the street for a while, but it would all be in the name of "brotherhood" so that makes it ok (just as long as you keep your own job). I mean, I'm not one of those guys that says "screw you, I'm going to get mine," but somewhere along the line, one does need to look after their own interests--my creditors are slightly more convincing.

-Goose

 

[ePilot22]

Two Bucks

see you guys in the terminal... looking like clones. At least get a tie tack... you guys look silly with your 1950's thin SLICK ties. Get a CRJ tie tack, or an American flag (you do believe in democracy don't you?)... just something so you don't look like you just go popped out of the mold and pushed off the assembly line of Jerry's factory...

Or maybe a Kool-Aid man.







eP.