Real Men of Genius....The ASA MEC

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Hey it's one of the volunteer cheerleaders!

CrewPass wow, how long did that take to put in place and how much did ALPO do? Probably only what the TSA said they could.

And how long did it take? 911 aniversary next month, will be 7 years.

Now thats a fast track job! GO ALPO!

If it was a real union it would have told all the pilots, if this doesn't get fixed now we'll all not come to work the first day of the next month.

The problem would have been fixed that afternoon.

But no, ALPO is really just a business and didn't want to risk a fine.

Maybe if ALPO had a real set of stones maybe OO would join, but most of us just see it as lethargic, clumsy, poorly run, out dated, failure.

Easy to talk tough with that burka on.... how long did it take the OO pilots? How long would it take the OO Student Council to get CREW PASS?

Very pathetic.... the equivalent of an Afghani woman talking trash about how some one else should do something she never can....

So ya Rez, if it gets through security faster great, I'll try it.

Of course you will.. because you have no shame, no self respect.... you leach off of others hard work then complain that the hard work of others is unsat...

That is who the OO pilots are and you've just clarified it again...

I answered your question.

Now answer mine.

Does Prater and Worth get a pension on top of their nearly half million incomes at member expense?

Ya think they could have smart enough to put a couple of bucks away........

First off... what do you care? You've chosen to be a burka leach, give up your rights to Jerry and sponge off of ALPA, and now you want to get involved in ALPA internal affairs... sounds like a serious identity problem...

I see you guys in the terminal... looking like clones. At least get a tie tack... you guys look silly with your 1950's thin SLICK ties. Get a CRJ tie tack, or an American flag (you do believe in democracy don't you?)... just something so you don't look like you just go popped out of the mold and pushed off the assembly line of Jerry's factory...


The ALPA president's pension is part of a compensation package that is put together and voted on by representatives from every pilot group. Why do you have a problem with that? There are no secrets here....


Now, answer my questions...

Do you have a problem with Jerry's compensation?

If you did, could you access the Student council to change it?

Do you have a rep that will vote on it?

Do you have an ability to have a say in your job, work rules, retirement, etc... or do you just do as Jerry tell you? Jerry has a contract... do you?

 

[CFIT]

Oh Rez,

So with out a tie tack we're not good enough?Whatever-

It's too bad you've tied yourself to failed organization.


But keep on being the good cheerleader, it makes some of these guys here feel better about throwing all of their money at it.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Oh Rez,

So with out a tie tack we're not good enough?Whatever-

No.. again you seem not to be able to understand what really matters... The tie tack issue means there is no union pin. The next time you see a pilot for the carrier you serve.. check out the tie.

At least get a OO student council pin.. or will Jerry not allow it?

It's too bad you've tied yourself to failed organization.

the OO pilots have failed.... then again, it all depends on who perspective.... since you like to freeload I guess you guys haven't failed...

But keep on being the good cheerleader, it makes some of these guys here feel better about throwing all of their money at it.

I'd rather be a cheerleader of democracy then be one of Jerry's Burka Leaches.... do what you are told, when you are told and how you are told...

 

[79%N1]

Whether you like them or not, it is ALPA, not ALPO. That is just childish to give them a stupid nickname you made up because you do not like the organization. What, are you 12? Grow the f*ck up already. I could have a bit more respect for your opinion if you didn't post like you are a seventh grader.

Let me guess.......you must fly the 'Bro".

 

[XPOO]

I'd rather be a cheerleader of democracy then be one of Jerry's Burka Leaches.... do what you are told, when you are told and how you are told...

JA runs the most successful airline of it's kind. Until he shows that is no longer the case, no one will mind.

Also, JA gave everyone a 35th Anniversary pin, some just might not choose to wear it. So, what?

What's long, black and hangs from an @sshole? Rez O. Lewshun's tie.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

JA runs the most successful airline of it's kind. Until he shows that is no longer the case, no one will mind.

This mindset is the same as the Chinese ... as long as capitialism is thriving and my life is getting better or good, then who cares about individual rights....


Not the point... SWA runs THE most successful airline. And SWA it heavily unionized. See, SWA makes unions partners in its success. Something I wish every airline did. But when management at UAL, DAL, NWA, CAL and most others including OO treat labor as cost to be controlled, self representation is necessary and very American.

You pride yourself on working for the most successful airline of its kind at your own expense... That is like an indentured servant priding himself to other servants that he lives on the best plantation...

Give it a break... get real.. get representation..

Also, JA gave everyone a 35th Anniversary pin, some just might not choose to wear it. So, what?

Why? No pride in Skywest? I'd wear a service pin for my company...

What's long, black and hangs from an @sshole? Rez O. Lewshun's tie.

Cute... the best you can offer? The discussion is OO pilots using CREW PASS that ALPA made happen...

 

[XPOO]

This mindset is the same as the Chinese ... as long as capitialism is thriving and my life is getting better or good, then who cares about individual rights....


Not the point... SWA runs THE most successful airline. And SWA it heavily unionized. See, SWA makes unions partners in its success. Something I wish every airline did. But when management at UAL, DAL, NWA, CAL and most others including OO treat labor as cost to be controlled, self representation is necessary and very American.

You pride yourself on working for the most successful airline of its kind at your own expense... That is like an indentured servant priding himself to other servants that he lives on the best plantation...

Give it a break... get real.. get representation..

Last I checked, Southwest wasn't a regional airline. Hell, they don't even fly outside of the contiguous 48. But, at least they were smart enough to start a real in-house union, instead of the rinse, lather, repeat ALPA.

Why? No pride in Skywest? I'd wear a service pin for my company...

SkyWest isn't like Chotchkie's, there is no minimum requirement for "pieces of flare".

Cute... the best you can offer? The discussion is OO pilots using CREW PASS that ALPA made happen...

You rarely ever care what the topic is about when you spew your ALPA rhetoric, so why should I?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Last I checked, Southwest wasn't a regional airline. Hell, they don't even fly outside of the contiguous 48. But, at least they were smart enough to start a real in-house union, instead of the rinse, lather, repeat ALPA.

Wow... and you fly to Canada..... very cosmopolitan... Do you fly to Mexico too?

Don't get me wrong.. I like Canada... in fact the Canadian gov't refused to allow UAL to rape its workers pensions...

What do you think of that?

Do you think its fair that UAL raped its US workers pensions? Since you love being at the mercy of management?


What does SWA being a regional or not have to do with it.. in fact.. I say it has more value because SWA is its own brand.. unlike OO who really is just a vendor for DAL and UAL... just like the fuelers and caterers...

So.. as long as you can undercut and be the outsourcers you'll have success...


SWAPA is able to be successful for three reasons...

one their management runs a successful airline
two they make unions their partners
three it is easier to manage a small group with a single territory than many groups with many territories...

But if you want to compare apples to apples what has SWAPA done for you that ALPA has not...

SkyWest isn't like Chotchkie's, there is no minimum requirement for "pieces of flare".

That is obvious...

You rarely ever care what the topic is about when you spew your ALPA rhetoric, so why should I?

Because you are leaching off of the hard work of ALPA volunteers all while being very disrespectful.

The Burka leach rationale is selfish... OO pilots just want their quick upgrade, keep their heads low, and move on to a......... union carrier...

The hypocrisy of OO pilots is disgusting....

You want respect but you aren't willing to give it...

 

[PCL_128]

Because you are leaching off of the hard work of ALPA volunteers all while being very disrespectful.

Actually, he's not. He's not even an OO pilot. He's just a cubicle-jockey in dispatch that thinks he knows something about pilot unions. He is sadly mistaken.

 

[XPOO]

Rez...

I had a nice long reply, which would have pointed out how alike Southwest and SkyWest are, and not as dissimilar as you try to make them sound. Then I decided to just point out that I said "of it's kind" and Southwest is not a regional. You need to comprehend as well as read before "jumping to conclusions" there Milton.

 

[XPOO]

Actually, he's not. He's not even an OO pilot. He's just a cubicle-jockey in dispatch that thinks he knows something about pilot unions. He is sadly mistaken.

Glad to see you are back off your suspension. Did you henpeck that response with the only finger you don't have up ALPA's rectum?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Rez...

I had a nice long reply, which would have pointed out how alike Southwest and SkyWest are, and not as dissimilar as you try to make them sound. Then I decided to just point out that I said "of it's kind" and Southwest is not a regional. You need to comprehend as well as read before "jumping to conclusions" there Milton.

I am sure you did.. your boy Walter had a long reply but then decided I wasn't worth it....

But its not about me.. its about the debate...

When the debate starts evolving to critical thinking that is when you drop off..... you do a great job with funny wit made for the water cooler however, when it comes to responsibility and effectiveness you drop off...

for example... what you said here...

Glad to see you are back off your suspension. Did you henpeck that response with the only finger you don't have up ALPA's rectum?

More immaturity...

You enjoy the ability to sit and (try to) judge from a position of no responsibility... like an aloof union member who has no ownership, you take cheap shots, use sexual comments and personal attacks....

Quite different from someone who has decided to accept responsibility and is trying to make things better..

You have responsibility as a dispatcher. How'd you like it if someone came by your desk/computer and started chiding your job? It would be easy to question fuel loads, alternate airports etc.. if one could just have to walk away and not have to justify choices...

And that is you....

You have no connection to pilot unions, so you can joke, ridicule and chide all you want... regardless, there are some of us who've taken ownership in the profession... and despite the rhetoric from you and others we will continue to do our best to make things better... and yes that includes the OO pilots.

Like any organization made of men and women there are going to be mistakes.... See it is easy for OO pilots... they never try so they never make mistakes. So how can their performacne be judged? How perfect... Liken it to sports... one could say.. 'I've never thrown an interception..' well of course not.. because you've never played and thus you've never made a touchdown either...

But like any person, you and I included, we all make mistakes.

So continue to speak out from a position of non responsibility with no consequence and immaturity and I'll continue to defend the profession.

 

[XPOO]

You go ahead and defend your profession. We will continue to support and defend our coworkers.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

You go ahead and defend your profession. We will continue to support and defend our coworkers.

How?

You have no grievance procedure? No contract? (jerry has one)... no agreement....

There is nothing to defend....

as for support....

the only way to support your coworkers is akin to a wives club. You can send greeting cards and have a sympathetic shoulder to cry on... but that is about it....

 

[XPOO]

All you do is use SkyWest as a whipping boy to further your agenda. I think you need to find a subpar regional with no union representation if you are trying to recruit some zombies. It might be more convincing.

 

[Caspian27]

Rez & PCL,

When are you going to realize that the best way to educate people about the benefits of unionism is by promoting the benefits of unionism, not by a culture of insult & intimidation to a group that could use representation?

If you were truly for helping all pilots you wouldn't be insulting OO pilots or calling them leeches on CREWpass. Maybe a better tactic would be, "Look what we did to get CREWpass. We know you're not members yet, but we'd sure like you to be because of the many benefits we can offer, not to mention the aero-medical services we can provide. CREWpass is just an example of what we do...enjoy it, and remember that next time you vote for representation."

Your attitude and insults turn off more people than it turns on to ALPA every time your post.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

All you do is use SkyWest as a whipping boy to further your agenda. I think you need to find a subpar regional with no union representation if you are trying to recruit some zombies. It might be more convincing.

Not looking for zombies...

Looking for professionals who want to participate in democracy and make the career better...

Trying to keep your head down and being threatened by management just for a quick upgrade and 1000PIC turbine is short sighted and selfish.... it hurts all of us...

When a union career is more probable than not, why not start out as a professional?

Use OO as a whipping boy? Maybe, but in reality they have made their own choices... because I call them out on the choices they've made and the identity they've sought.. doesn't mean much... it is what it is....

OO pilots are good guys no doubt... but how many times does one snub the profession all while taking from it?

 

[Goose Egg]

I see you guys in the terminal... looking like clones. At least get a tie tack... you guys look silly with your 1950's thin SLICK ties. Get a CRJ tie tack, or an American flag (you do believe in democracy don't you?)... just something so you don't look like you just go popped out of the mold and pushed off the assembly line of Jerry's factory...

Spoken like someone who's just p.o.'d and looking for a whipping boy. But hey, if you're p.o.'d, I guess you've just gotta hate someone.

The Burka leach rationale is selfish... OO pilots just want their quick upgrade, keep their heads low, and move on to a......... union carrier...

Well, I can't speak for my co-workers, but there is only one airline, union or otherwise, that I would want to "move-on" to, and it isn't even ALPA represented. What does that tell ya? And I doubt very much that my upgrade time will be significantly different than the average... definitely not what I'd call "quick" at any rate.

And my head isn't low--I still have a job!

Why do you expect ALPA to be a total efficient machine of free market barriers and protectionism in a hyperconsumption race to the bottom economy that has gone global?

That's rich! I love how the ALPA stand when the industry is going well is "Look how much ALPA has done for the industry! Everything that is good is due to us!" And then when the industry is in the crapper, the line is "Why do you expect ALPA to [blah blah blah]... we can't fix everything." Why do we expect ALPA to be a total efficient machine of free market barriers and protectionism? Because they claimed they could offer that during the last upturn!

Well, which one is it? You're either responsible or you're not.

...You have responsibility as a dispatcher. How'd you like it if someone came by your desk/computer and started chiding your job? It would be easy to question fuel loads, alternate airports etc.. if one could just have to walk away and not have to justify choices...

You've obviously never been a dispatcher.

You want respect but you aren't willing to give it...

I, for one, am not looking for respect on an internet website.

-Goose

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Rez & PCL,

When are you going to realize that the best way to educate people about the benefits of unionism is by promoting the benefits of unionism, not by a culture of insult & intimidation to a group that could use representation?

If you were truly for helping all pilots you wouldn't be insulting OO pilots or calling them leeches on CREWpass. Maybe a better tactic would be, "Look what we did to get CREWpass. We know you're not members yet, but we'd sure like you to be because of the many benefits we can offer, not to mention the aero-medical services we can provide. CREWpass is just an example of what we do...enjoy it, and remember that next time you vote for representation."

Your attitude and insults turn off more people than it turns on to ALPA every time your post.

Just my 2 cents.

After multiple union drives I think the OO pilots know exactly what they are doing....

They've been given information on unions and the profession and they don't seem to care... all they care about is themselves right now....

We've told them about the benefits. But they seem interested in getting the milk for free.. why buy the cow. Let someone else buy it.

Despite the fact the they know very well that sooner or later they are going to join a union.... unless they stay at OO forever...

Volunteers give a lot of time, energy and effort to make the profession better... it doesn't sit well when one does all the work and another comes along and benefits from your hard work... when you politely point out the effort you've made you get irrational jeers and the proverbial middle finger....

Here is what OO pilots take from ALPA but don't give..


CREW PASS
FFDO
FMLA legislation
Jumpseating system including CASS
PIC Authority
NAS modernization
Criminalization of pilots
Safety and Engineering (GPWS/TCAS)
Security

the list goes on....

And then OO pilots pulled that jumpseat letter threat... So... you call me out for chiding OO pilots yet its ok for those guys to use the jumpseat as political weapon...

How long do let someone mooch off of you all in the hopes that someday they will join the profession as you smile and they flick you off? Then two mins later they turn around and wonder what the issue is and why they don't get respect?


If you are going to call me out... fine... I responded.. but call out the OO pilots too....

 

[Caspian27]

Not looking for zombies...

Looking for professionals who want to participate in democracy and make the career better...

Trying to keep your head down and being threatened by management just for a quick upgrade and 1000PIC turbine is short sighted and selfish.... it hurts all of us...

When a union career is more probable than not, why not start out as a professional?

Use OO as a whipping boy? Maybe, but in reality they have made their own choices... because I call them out on the choices they've made and the identity they've sought.. doesn't mean much... it is what it is....

OO pilots are good guys no doubt... but how many times does one snub the profession all while taking from it?

Rez,

You really have no clue what the motivation of the pilot group is. Outside of MKE and ORD the Captains are very senior. There is no quick upgrade.

Oh, and it was EVERY UAX carrier except TSA that started the jumpseat thing. Not just OO.

I just don't get you Rez. It's the same rhetoric always. Never a definitive answer on anything.

The OO pilots aren't flicking you off. They work hard and care about their profession. And it shows from the performance numbers. You however, obviously aren't smiling...as you say you are.

 

[Goose Egg]

And then OO pilots pulled that jumpseat letter threat... So... you call me out for chiding OO pilots yet its ok for those guys to use the jumpseat as political weapon...

That was ALL the UAX carriers except one, dumbass. More specifically, it was the jumpseat commitees of ALL the UAX carriers except one. The rank and file had very little to do with it. I certainly wasn't asked about my opinion on the subject.

-Goose

 

[Goose Egg]

Let me guess.......you must fly the 'Bro".

So let me get this straight...

1. You love Trek bikes.
2. You don't know a damn thing about cyclocross OR singlespeeding.
3. AND you wouldn't know an incredibly busy and demanding airplane if it taxiied up and hit you in the rear.

The hits just keep on coming. Freakin' roadies.

-Goose

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Rez,

You really have no clue what the motivation of the pilot group is. Outside of MKE and ORD the Captains are very senior. There is no quick upgrade.

Then what is the justification for rejecting ALPA? Please reference the list of benefits that posted earlier like jumpseating and FFDO...

Oh, and it was EVERY UAX carrier except TSA that started the jumpseat thing. Not just OO.

The point? Sure it was wrong of every carrier except TSA to do it... but that doesn't mean it was less wrong for OO pilots...

I just don't get you Rez. It's the same rhetoric always. Never a definitive answer on anything.

I thought my last reply to was very definitive.. how was it not? What is clearly definitive is OO pilots benefit from ALPA but do not contribute.. they freeload.

The OO pilots aren't flicking you off.

Don't we as individuals get to decide how we perceive something? To the average ALPA member the OO issue is really not a big deal. To the volunteers who work the issues it is a big deal...

Keep in mind ALPA doesn't need OO for any reason except for unity and effectiveness. Like most regionals, OO pilots would benefits more than ALPA would.. but it is still the right thing to do.. to have OO represented...

They work hard and care about their profession.

I don't doubt they work hard. And one reason they are willing to do that is because of unions... They are indirect recipients of the benefits...

As are regular union members. Union pilots can show up fly and go home.. not because their managements are great but because the unions have fought for protections... to not appreciate that and not to protect it and defend it is self detrimental..

And respectfully, I don't consider the OO pilot professionals.. Sure they work hard, operate to a high standard.. but they don't have to Code of Ethics, no safety program, no training commitee, no human factors, no protections and they don't work to make the job better....

And it shows from the performance numbers. You however, obviously aren't smiling...as you say you are.

What does performance numbers have to with it? All performance numbers do is give management a bonus.


So you are saying the its OK for the OO pilots to benefit from ALPA and not contribute?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

That was ALL the UAX carriers except one, dumbass. More specifically, it was the jumpseat commitees of ALL the UAX carriers except one. The rank and file had very little to do with it. I certainly wasn't asked about my opinion on the subject.

-Goose

As I said earlier... it doesn't make it ok for OO pilots just because others did it....

The problem with the rank and file at OO is what are they going to do about it?? Nothing....

They don't have an MEC chairman or LEC rep to work the issue.. How do OO pilots remove a jumpseat chairman for making such a screw up?


At least the other carriers have self governance and representation....

 

[Goose Egg]

They don't have an MEC chairman or LEC rep to work the issue.. How do OO pilots remove a jumpseat chairman for making such a screw up?

At least the other carriers have self governance and representation....

Which I will agree that we need at SkyWest... My point was never that we don't need representation. We just don't need it from ALPA.

-Goose

 

[XPOO]

How do OO pilots remove a jumpseat chairman for making such a screw up?

Why does anyone need to be removed? United had 18 months to solve that problem. After the ultimatum it took less than two weeks. Looks like it got the job done to me.

 

[Caspian27]

Rez,

I could tell you all the reasons why I think OO is a good place to work, but I'll spare you. You've heard it before.

I'm all for furthering the profession. I'm all for protection. I'm all for helping my fellow pilots out and volunteering. I'm not against unions. But the union doesn't define this workplace, and the unity you think you have by being a member doesn't exist. Another pilot would kick you in the teeth to move up a few seniority numbers even if they're both ALPA and you know it. (Again see Republic/Northwest, America West/USAir, AA/TWA)

In reference to the UA jumpseat thing, you appear to disagree with how it was handled. But was what UA mainline did with changing the priority any better?

 

[XPOO]

In reference to the UA jumpseat thing, you appear to disagree with how it was handled. But was what UA mainline did with changing the priority any better?

If you ask Rez that question he will tell you that UA owns those regional jumpseats and has every bit of authority to use it as they sit fit. Spare yourself.

 

[Goose Egg]

Why does anyone need to be removed? United had 18 months to solve that problem. After the ultimatum it took less than two weeks. Looks like it got the job done to me.

Actually, that's a very good point. I didn't think anyone should have been removed either.

I thought it was wrong of Rez to initially single out OO for the jumpseat letter, when it was all the UAX carriers except for TSA. How convenient to leave that part out. And then to blame the ENTIRE pilot group for it, when, right or wrong, the actions taken were due to the decisions of the jumpseat commitee alone. And if he has a problem with the actions of the jumpseat commitee of OO, then he has a problem with the jumpseat commitees of every UAX carrier (including the union represented ones) except TSA.

Rez seems to display this hatred for the ENTIRE pilot group, including those who have had little to do with the things that he finds so disagreeable. I think he faults us merely for working where we do--that alone is a grevious enough offense.

What would you have us do? Rez? Quit and work somewhere that's more "union friendly" in the name of this mythical state called "solidarity?" Sure, I'd be out on the street for a while, but it would all be in the name of "brotherhood" so that makes it ok (just as long as you keep your own job). I mean, I'm not one of those guys that says "screw you, I'm going to get mine," but somewhere along the line, one does need to look after their own interests--my creditors are slightly more convincing.

-Goose

 

[ePilot22]

Two Bucks

see you guys in the terminal... looking like clones. At least get a tie tack... you guys look silly with your 1950's thin SLICK ties. Get a CRJ tie tack, or an American flag (you do believe in democracy don't you?)... just something so you don't look like you just go popped out of the mold and pushed off the assembly line of Jerry's factory...

Or maybe a Kool-Aid man.







eP.