IBT 1108 Attempts to take NJASAP funds

[Ultra Grump]

Heroes don't need to "Step Down" when they rush into a burning building to secure the Treasure of the Family, the 1108 Family.

You have an extraordinarily well-developed sense of entitlement. It will be interesting to see if you can truly do anything for yourselves. I tend to doubt it.

 

[Freedom]

I Wish BOTH Pilot Groups all the best moving forward

Freedom is Not Free

 

[vref25]

Bump.

 

[slowjet]

Who is going to be big enough to apologize first for falsly accusing the two Flight Options pilots of the so-called theft. Everyone has the money according to the seperation agreement. There never was any attempt to steal.
Perhaps a little professionalism and responsibilty is needed here.
Nobody has the right to accuse, try, and punish without due process.
So, again, who will be the first to apologize?
There are a lot of people who acted in a shameful way-very disappointed.

 

[Pervis]

Slow, that goes both ways. What happened was outlined way back in this thread. Accusations and comments from both sides have gotten way out of hand since the origional story broke.

Greg Rountree, who was there, also gave his version in another thread. He even signed his own name in this public forum. I haven't seen the two from FLOPS counter anything, have you? At least not without an alias.

The prudent thing to do is stop the character assassinations and let the authorities do their thing. I have a feeling the only ones to fear legal issues are BM and the IBT. Your folks were used, which is unfortunate, but not likely criminal. Question is, if that's the case, do you want them leading you in anything?

 

[netjetwife]

Correction: There definitely was an attempt to steal. The (fired) 1108 bookkeeper, only Union staff member not going with NJASAP, had lied to the (then) 1108 President (a NJ pilot) about paying the NJ bills. My husband, a transition team member owed reimbursement for expenses, wondered for days if he'd see any money. He would not have been paid back if the (then) 1108 Treasurer had not discovered the mishandling of funds and corrected the situation. The bank cooperated with NJ leaders and stop-orders were placed because money was being misdirected. Bill Moore was calling the shots and he led astray the FltOps leaders as well as the bookkeeper. The entire mess is regrettable and I had hoped that Greg Rountree's post would have provided an end to the conversation here. Slow, I suggest that you, and others who share your viewpoint, re-read it.

I am very sorry that this ever happened. I am saddened that the two FltOps leaders didn't trust the NJ pilots who had never let them down and who had bent over backwards to help them. I find it awful that they believed illogical lies from BM and allowed themselves to be used in a revengeful power-play against their fellow frac pilots. It is a shame that some of the FltOps pilots have made a bad situation worse by falsely (adding insult to injury) accusing the NJ leaders of wrongdoing when they were actually the only signers to the Separation Agreement following the rules all had agreed to months earlier.

I do not regret that I have acted from my heart in offering support to both pilotgroups. I am not sorry that I have followed my conscience in calling for fairness, old-fashioned morality, and due process. I do not think it is wrong to remind readers that the money in the 1108 account had been put there by the NJ pilots and was willingly being left behind in sincere hopes that it would be used to obtain a fair contract for the Options pilots.

I fully understand that good people can make bad mistakes when they trust the wrong person. I think it should be apparent to all that that is what happened in this case and I apologize for not making that observation in my first post on the subject. I am sorry that I assumed that others were being mindful of that fact.

With a heavy heart,
Netjetwife

 

[slowjet]

Pervis, Netjets wife,

Both parties had the idea that the other party was going to back out of the deal. Your NJASAP is not as innocent as you think. If you live in a glass house- do not throw rocks.

The IBT had reason to act the way they did and have the two falsely accused pilots move to protect the agreed money that was supposed to stay for the IBT- AS AGREED. As of now, all parties have thier agreed upon money.

Do you see any threads of the IBT or FLOPS pilots making accusations against the NJASAP or Netjets pilot- NO! Nobody was trying to steal anything. You can say that all day if you wish. It was jsut a matter of taking CONTROL of the funds to protect it and somebody at NJASAP got upset over that and made an accusation. By the way, you really think two people in a very public forum will be so stupid to think they could get away with stealing money in their own names. Get real!

I happen to know one of the accused. I trust him with my life. This accusation (no due process what-so-ever) was very irresponsible. I just hope it does not hurt the Flight Options pilot group trying to land a first contract with a corrupt management team.

You have your money, so please leave us alone so we can get on with what we richly deserve- an industry standard contract- and my job back.

The attack on these two pilots was very shameful.
Again, who is going to apologize when all of this is said and done and it is proven there was no wrong-doing?

Enough said.

 

[CA1900]

(I guess this thread's not going to die just yet...)

Both parties had the idea that the other party was going to back out of the deal. Your NJASAP is not as innocent as you think.

We had people watching because we were concerned that IBT--not 1108--was going to try to screw up this deal. Which is exactly what they attempted to do.

The IBT had reason to act the way they did and have the two falsely accused pilots move...

They aren't falsely accused -- they were in the bank, holding the falsified paperwork. They were willing accomplices to a crime. Misdirected by Bill Moore? Very likely. Didn't know it was a crime? Again, very likely. But ignorance of the law isn't an excuse; they were still accomplices.

...to protect the agreed money that was supposed to stay for the IBT- AS AGREED. As of now, all parties have thier agreed upon money.

They have their money because we stopped the illegal transaction in its tracks.

Do you see any threads of the IBT or FLOPS pilots making accusations against the NJASAP or Netjets pilot- NO! Nobody was trying to steal anything.

Are you kidding? There are accusations in this very thread suggesting that very thing. We weren't the ones who let Bill Moore in the back door, and handed over a checking belonging to 1108 in a darkened office, without the knowledge or consent of the leadership in charge that day.

You can say that all day if you wish. It was jsut a matter of taking CONTROL of the funds to protect it and somebody at NJASAP got upset over that and made an accusation.

The changeover was scheduled to take place on July 11th. Sneaking money out the back door, in a darkened office, with someone that our own security had been instructed not to let in the building, and then running to the bank with illegitimate paperwork, is collusion.

By the way, you really think two people in a very public forum will be so stupid to think they could get away with stealing money in their own names. Get real!

I didn't until they were seen trying to do exactly that.

What they did was improper, and illegal. As has been explained repeatedly, Hoffa does not have the legal authority to declare the local in trusteeship.

(Yeah, options_slave, I know: "Says you." Says the RLA, too.)

This accusation (no due process what-so-ever) was very irresponsible.

What's irresponsible is trusting Bill Moore with your local.

You have your money, so please leave us alone...

We tried to leave you alone. You swiped our checkbook while we were packing up, and gave us the finger, saying we were going to steal from you if you didn't do that! It was--and is--preposterous and insulting. You took a thug's word over a fellow pilot's. That's the really sad part.

...so we can get on with what we richly deserve- an industry standard contract- and my job back.

I genuinely hope you get it. The real tragedy here is that because IBT was given trusteeship if your local, your leadership does not have control anymore, and that's only going to hurt your progress and delay things further. Your pilot group has been robbed of its autonomy. I hope you can get out of trusteeship quickly; I mean that.

 

[netjetwife]

Slow, no rocks from me; only a call for fairness and common sense. Explaining that a breach of trust occurred which led to the Separation Agreement being violated is not making false accusations. It is keeping the pilotgroups informed. Ironically you have provided an example of unfair/untrue insinuations with your regrettable aspersion against NJASAP: "Your NJASAP is not as innocent as you think". I beg to differ and I certainly have the requisite insight to do so. You seem not to understand that NJASAP operated separately on the donations (above their dues) the NJ pilots had eagerly provided to accomplish their goal of becoming an independent, in-house Union/Association.

I stress again that the NJ pilots are the only party to the Agreement that honored it continuously. They worked hard to make sure the FltOps pilots were left in good shape and maintained strict adherence to the legal and open handling of the money they had amassed from their savings and were willingly and graciously leaving behind for the Options pilotgroup. IBT rules notwithstanding, the morally unfair irony of having to borrow your own money should be duly noted by all. Yet that is all the NJ pilots had asked for. The slightest hint that they were underhanded is grossly unfair and shamefully wrong because there is no basis for it. It should be clear to everyone that B M/IBT lied to good men who made the mistake of believing him. That in a nutshell is what happened, as Greg Rountree, then-acting 1108 President, explained--in a personal post.

As a final observation, it is both a relief and a pleasure to note the camaraderie which has flowed back and forth between the two pilotgroups in spite of what happened under Bill Moore's influence. I firmly believe that the majority of pilots place blame directly on the "greedy landlord" and not on the former room-mates. NJW

 

[B19 Flyer]

Slow, no rocks from me; only a call for fairness and common sense. Explaining that a breach of trust occurred which led to the Separation Agreement being violated is not making false accusations. It is keeping the pilotgroups informed. Ironically you have provided an example of unfair/untrue insinuations with your regrettable aspersion against NJASAP: "Your NJASAP is not as innocent as you think". I beg to differ and I certainly have the requisite insight to do so. You seem not to understand that NJASAP operated separately on the donations (above their dues) the NJ pilots had eagerly provided to accomplish their goal of becoming an independent, in-house Union/Association.

I stress again that the NJ pilots are the only party to the Agreement that honored it continuously. They worked hard to make sure the FltOps pilots were left in good shape and maintained strict adherence to the legal and open handling of the money they had amassed from their savings and were willingly and graciously leaving behind for the Options pilotgroup. IBT rules notwithstanding, the morally unfair irony of having to borrow your own money should be duly noted by all. Yet that is all the NJ pilots had asked for. The slightest hint that they were underhanded is grossly unfair and shamefully wrong because there is no basis for it. It should be clear to everyone that B M/IBT lied to good men who made the mistake of believing him. That in a nutshell is what happened, as Greg Rountree, then-acting 1108 President, explained--in a personal post.

As a final observation, it is both a relief and a pleasure to note the camaraderie which has flowed back and forth between the two pilotgroups in spite of what happened under Bill Moore's influence. I firmly believe that the majority of pilots place blame directly on the "greedy landlord" and not on the former room-mates. NJW

I understand your husband is a union leader, but I don't understand how he tolerates all this percieved "inside" information being posted by you on public message boards.

What you post can only be from his opinions as told to you as you are not an employee or personally involved in union activities.

As an example, as a non-employee how would you have an opinion about the line I highlighted in red? That opinion could have only come from your husband and regurgitated by you, therefore it's his opinion. If I was in his shoes, I certainly wouldn't want an opinion like that published on a public message board, whether it was true or not.

So, as you bash certain personalities and publically post certain opinions, it must be clear to all on this board that your words are a direct reflection of your husband's views.

Even if I agreed with you, (which would never happen) it would creep me out to no end that the wife of my union leadership publically posts information that could only come from her husband, therefore they must be his thoughts.

Are there not confidentiality rules of some type? I think it's a little strange that you post like you do considering you don't work at NJ and really shouldn't have any "inside" union information.

 

[FLYLOW22]

Maybe it's not for you to understand...

 

[slowjet]

Again, no one tried to steal YOUR money. If there was an attempt, that is up to law enforcement to investigate, arrest, and a court to convict- NOT YOU ON A PUBLIC FORUM.
Enough already. You're accusations are false and DONE!!!!!!

 

[steelersrule74]

well, i was content with the points I made and satisfied to let the thread work it's way down the list.

ahhh, but it seems that to some such as Slow - it was not crystal clear.

2 big issues here. The 2 executive board members acted rashly by attempting to divert 1108 funds from the authorized accounts into secret accounts the local president and sec/treas had no access to.

spin it how you want, that's stealing. If they had simply been transparent and established new accounts in cleveland for the purpose of conducting 1108 business with full knowledge of the board the deal would have been completed on the 11th and all would be well. the fact they had to move in secrecy shows the intent to mislead and in my opinion steal the dues so the IBT could back out of the agreement.

The real issue for me personally however is the motivation. Your current president and sec/treas for some reason thought the pilots at NJA were no longer trustworthy or someone you can do business with. They apparently thought they must 'protect' our dues money (and it was NJA dues money both in name and intent).

So let me make it very plain. I wish FLOPS pilots all the success in the world. I sincerely hope you get an industry leading contract. however, as long as MS, AM and Mr. Moore are in the picture that's the extent of my involvement in your fight. I will not work with or for individuals who think we are not trustworthy. Individuals who came to that conclusion based solely on the words of Mr. Moore and without a shred of evidence or behavior in the past to support it.

I will certainly not tell the pilots at FLOPS what they should or shouldn't do - but I hope I'm being clear about what I and my fellow pilots at NJA will do. I simply will not have any relationship with these men.

Good luck in your fight. Remember, it's all in the hands of FLOPS pilots now. share no credit for success with others and equally important, accept all blame if you fail........

 

[netjetwife]

Posts like yours, Steelerfan, just reinforce the theory (Tree's posted insight) that BM was determined to destroy the relationship between the two pilotgroups. While I recognize that it's a normal reaction to have, I hope that the show of camaraderie we have also seen here will prevail in the end. After all, the NJ pilots had their Fab 5 so we should know that growing pains are to be expected as a group moves from apathy to full participation from the pilots and their families.

General observation from a member of 2 boards: Perhaps the NJ folks see things more clearly because we have more info available to us (pilots and spouses) on the topic than the Options pilots do? I don't know what has been reported on their board, but I do note and appreciate that the former President of 1108 posted an explanation of the events. The current President has not posted here yet. It is a StrongUnion tradition to stay informed and form an opinion (spouses are encouraged to, as well) which is reflected on the NJ board (and sometimes here) for all to read. I hope that the Options pilots and spouses have that same access to communication because it is necessary for success. The SU leaders worked hard to develop a communication infrastructure with programs like the Do You Know. I hope for the sake of the Options group that they have something similar. An informed group of pilots, and spouses who support them, is an asset as important as money in the bank. Good luck to both sides! NJW

 

[slowjet]

I'll say it once more, it is not YOUR place to accuse and convict on a public forum without any formal investigation from a law enforcement official. Due process was completely ignored.
This issue is done.