IBT 1108 Attempts to take NJASAP funds

[gunfyter]

Solidarity

IMO

If 70 pilots were fired or furloughed out of seniority during early 2005... NJ probably wouldn't exist today.

 

[Options_SLAVE]

I am concerned with what you aren't being told now.

To summarize your point: The Flight Options leadership NEVER stayed on budget. They were costing over $100,000 a month above Flight Options dues revenues for 2008. And, like the IBT the NetJets cashflow was the "solidarity."

Ironically, all this while a [former] Flight Options MEC Chairman and a Negotiating Committee member wan't paying dues. But, the Flight Options leadership group refused to address the issue until the NetJets Sec/Treas refused to "keep it all under the radar."

I'm having flashbacks of all the sweeping under the rug "solidarity."

The only way to get your contract is to lay down the heat and have solidarity within your pilot group. You can blame whoever you want - but that's the bottom line - it's up to your pilot group; not NetJets and not Hoffa. It's up to the Flight Options pilot group and nobody else.

Getting at least 50% of the Flight Options pilot group to pay dues per the Local 1108 Bylaws would be a great improvement in "solidarity." Otherwise, having the International fund the effort would be another great demonstration of solidarity as well. But, being chickensh!t and deflecting it the NetJets pilot group is truly sad and not very Strong Union.

Just a suggestion, but you might consider changing your name to "captainwordsinyourmouth". I never said any of that. You also are smoking crack with your solidarity number. The reason for being over budget was the budget we were "given" by the e-board was not realistic. The only "funds" we had control over were miniscule and forced to be based on parameters set by the e-board, not the MEC.

I didn't deflect anything. I know damn well that it is our pilot group's solidarity that will get us a contract, I do believe it would be stronger had you not left. In fact, I believe our pilots will force the company to close the doors if the company does not capitulate on the contract, our solidarity is strong enough for that. It'd be much stronger had you guys not been so damn greedy about your SMALL % going to national and could have waited another 12 months before splitting.

 

[Options_SLAVE]

IMO

If 70 pilots were fired or furloughed out of seniority during early 2005... NJ probably wouldn't exist today.

I agree. In fact, if the company doesn't fix it and give the 70 their jobs back in their entirety, with full backpay, etcl, I don't think Flight Options will exist either.

 

[nomore]

Why?

As my Dad says " You cant argue with some one that does not know what they are talking about"

It is obvious that both Freedumb and Options_whore have no idea what they are talking about.

I wish I knew why you thought it appropriate to start this thread at this time. I think you just kicked our 70 hostages to the curb. Not to mention putting a serious kink in our upcoming negotiations. F&H are going to jump all over this and we are the ones who are going to suffer. MS is not a thief, AM is not a thief and I am disgusted that you feel like you can slander them and by the title of this thread all of us options pilots. I question your motives of posting this at all. To put it mildly Netjets has had a contentious relationship with the IBT for quite a while now and it seems your beef is with them. And of course they won't suffer a thing but the Options pilots will. Thanks

 

[IDEtoNJA]

BS. It was all about the money. Like you said - LONG term goals, SHORT term planning. You could have waited. You knew what it would do to the FLOPS pilots, you did it anyway, even though there was no urgency and it would not have affected the long-term goals. And although the FLOPS leadership likes the autonomy and the freedom of the cash, they would have preferred the solidarity and for you to have waited until after we got the contract. Our contract will not be as strong as it would have been had you not left and you know it.

Options_SLAVE,

Except for the financial viability of Local 1108, how does the involvement of the NetJets pilot group degrade or strengthen the negotiating capital of the FLOPS pilot group?

The short term financial viability of Local 1108 is ensured in part by the dues moneys voluntarily left behind by the NetJets pilot group as part of the separation agreement.

IDEtoNJA

 

[TORCH67]

The plot thickens! $100,000 more in expenses than what Flight Options dues are taking in??? I see motive now for trying to keep NJ in 1108 as along as possible. Hand in the cookie jar, and motive!

Time for the Flight Options pilots to put up or shut up! It won't take long for 1.2 mil to be gone at that rate!

 

[Options_SLAVE]

True colors shining through. Nice.

Our negotiations are not costing anything more than was expected. There is an increase in negotiations costs because we are now meeting more than the "budgeted" once a month - Just like the Net Jets pilots did.

Why do you think we joined the 1108, who was with the Teamsters? Do you think a pilot group with 1,000 pilots can afford their own negotiations? Now, do you think they could do it at 500? That's why the teamsters, and the Local 1108, worked for us. Your implication is insulting.

Kiss off, Torch.

And Cast of thousands (as if we don't know who you really are) - where do you get off disclosing budgetary numbers on here? Why not just mail all the details directly to ford & harrison you selfish son of a b!tch? Every post you've made here with your 2 or 3 other cronies shows that you have no other hope but to help slander,s mear, and destroy the FO pilot's negotiations for any hope of a decent contract. All in spite because our MEC stopped you from whatever it was you had planned to do last week.

 

[IDEtoNJA]

Sorry for the double post!

 

[TORCH67]

No need to worry Options_slave! I'm sure Hoffa and the IBT will step up once you run out of money and take up a collection to keep you funded just like they did for us! Oh wait, we funded all of our own negoitiations with no help from the IBT or Flight Options!

I would feel really secure with Hoffa and his henchmen at the helm! Sleep good tonight!

P.S. kiss kiss!!

 

[Options_SLAVE]

Options_SLAVE,

As a NJASAP member in good standing, I would be interested to know what allegations anyone has against the current and/or past leadership group of the NetJets pilot group. And more importantly, what proof anyone has to backup these allegations. Please enlighten us.

Furthermore, does the suspicion of misconduct alone warrant the placement of a local in emergency trusteeship? Who has to be informed of such placement?

Furthermore, could you please find out whether or not Local 1108 is currently under trusteeship?

IDEtoNJA

I've already answered most of your questions in this thread. I do not have specific details because there is an investigation going on, and even if I did have the specific details, unlike others from your side of the fence, I certainly wouldn't air other peoples' dirty laundry on this public forum.

If there are improprieties found, there will be charges made or a law suit filed. As I said, I hope that doesn't happen. If it does, I'm sure you'll hear about it. All I will say, is that the suspicions were strong enough for IBT National to move on it, who then made the FO MEC (Local 1108 eBoard members) take control of the bank accounts, and a discrepancie that got the banks to sit on a $377k check, which is what got castaway's and the NJASAP's panties all up in a wad because it got sniffed out.

If there were any such improprieties, my money is that it isn't on the FO side of the fence and I leave it there.

 

[CastofThousands]

True colors shining through. Nice.

Our negotiations are not costing anything more than was expected. There is an increase in negotiations costs because we are now meeting more than the "budgeted" once a month - Just like the Net Jets pilots did.

Why do you think we joined the 1108, who was with the Teamsters? Do you think a pilot group with 1,000 pilots can afford their own negotiations? Now, do you think they could do it at 500? That's why the teamsters, and the Local 1108, worked for us. Your implication is insulting.

Kiss off.

Hence, the solidarity = $$$$$

Throughout 2005 the NetJets pilots negotiated the agreement with less than $500,000. Most of it purely off of NetJets pilot donations, and none of it from the Teamsters.

Over 40 months the NetJets pilot have paid over $5 million in International per-capitatax. Go get some of that money. In addition, the International has charged the Flight Options pilots per-capita on all their dues, which are not required under the IBT Const (but are required under the 1108 Bylaws). Yet, the IBT has paid NOTHING in Flight Options bargaining. Go get some of that money/solidarity.

 

[DO-82 driver]

I agree. In fact, if the company doesn't fix it and give the 70 their jobs back in their entirety, with full backpay, etcl, I don't think Flight Options will exist either.

You're probably correct. And I'm willing to wager that IBT has the same optimistic view of the future of FLOP's so they are probably thinking...."might as well take it now."

It seems that most are morei nterested in bailing then trying to save the ship. There's just no "fire in their belly"

I see this as just another nail on the coffin.

 

[Voice Of Reason]

And there you have it folks...

Freedom, the Netjets pilots already have their loan. That's a result of the steps we took this week to ensure the compliance with the separation agreement.

INTERESTING!
Now who are the thugs, lol! ????
So you find it perfectly legal for NJs pilots to STEAL MONEY from a "lender," just in case they decide not to lend it.???
That's a funny view of legality and interesting projection on your part.
The NJ story changes by the second.....

 

[CA1900]

Why not just mail all the details directly to ford & harrison you selfish son of a b!tch?

Selfish? Hardly. He's basically traded his own life for ours these past few years -- that's how "selfish" he is.

All in spite because our MEC stopped you from whatever it was you had planned to do last week.

Tell us, what exactly did he plan to do last week? What exactly do you think was "stopped" by trying to steal these funds under false pretenses from the leadership that was in place at the time?

 

[Options_SLAVE]

No need to worry Options_slave! I'm sure Hoffa and the IBT will step up once you run out of money and take up a collection to keep you funded just like they did for us! Oh wait, we funded all of our own negoitiations with no help from the IBT or Flight Options!

I would feel really secure with Hoffa and his henchmen at the helm! Sleep good tonight!

P.S. kiss kiss!!

Oh, I will. I don't have to worry about investigators breathing down my neck. I'll sleep like a baby. And by the way. You have no idea what it is like to negotiate for a FIRST contract. Comparing your apples to our oranges is just that. At least i'm not a dick and rub my successes in others' faces. I suppose you think you're better than others too.

 

[Options_SLAVE]

Selfish? Hardly. He's basically traded his own life for ours these past few years -- that's how "selfish" he is.



Tell us, what exactly did he plan to do last week? What exactly do you think was "stopped" by trying to steal these funds under false pretenses from the leadership that was in place at the time?

I already answered this question with my speculation. I have however asked numerous times what the NJASAP pilots would have done with the money had the control not changed hands when it did, and no one's answered. Why don't you ask them that same question?

 

[TORCH67]

The only thing that got Hoffa and his thugs attention was the fact they were losing $90K per month in revenue for doing nothing in return!

The $377k was from Netjets, collected from Netjets pilots in an agreement for a loan back to Netjets pilots. You really under estimate the intelligence of the NJA Eboard members.

Why would a bookeeper hold expenses for NJA and pay Flight Options expenses?

Why did the Flt Ops MEC go behind the backs of the other elected and current EBoard members from NJA if they thought they were doing something legal?

I have asked alot of questions but you don't have answers!

Kiss Kiss

 

[Options_SLAVE]

Uh, no. Unlike you, I've answered your questions. Here they are again:

The AGREEMENT states the $377 loan to be from the IBT Local 1108 to NJASAP, NOT from Net Jets to NJASAP. Go read it again. This was the basis of the dispute over that said check. That money belongs to the Local, not NJASAP, including a portion that belongs to national. NJASAP had no rights to that check, the "check" that NJASAP was to receive was from the Local, as per the agreement as a loan.

The bookkeeper did not withhold any NJA expenses for flight options expenses. Careful, slander is illegal and could get you in a lot of trouble.

The Flight Options MEC did as they were directed by the GP regarding the 1108 bank accounts due to a suspected impropriety found. If you have reason to suspect such impropriety, you act to protect your interests. That's what was done. No "control" was taken from the e-board who was in place at the time, merely who signs the checks, and those members who now have authority to sign such checks were ALSO on the e-board at the time. All of this was done in accordance with the powers of the GP as per the constitution. Got a problem with it, take it to Washington. Nothing was done improper from FO.

 

[IDEtoNJA]

I've already answered most of your questions in this thread. I do not have specific details because there is an investigation going on, and even if I did have the specific details, unlike others from your side of the fence, I certainly wouldn't air other peoples' dirty laundry on this public forum.

If there are improprieties found, there will be charges made or a law suit filed. As I said, I hope that doesn't happen. If it does, I'm sure you'll hear about it. All I will say, is that the suspicions were strong enough for IBT National to move on it, who then made the FO MEC (Local 1108 eBoard members) take control of the bank accounts, and a discrepancie that got the banks to sit on a $377k check, which is what got castaway's and the NJASAP's panties all up in a wad because it got sniffed out.

If there were any such improprieties, my money is that it isn't on the FO side of the fence and I leave it there.

Options_SLAVE,

You might have answered questions; however, I do not feel that my questions have been cleared up. I might be slower then others.

A. What are the allegations made against the current and outgoing leaderships of the NetJets pilot group? And, what proof does anyone posses to backup such allegations?

You have alluded to the misappropriation of funds, would you mind detailing those?

B. When did the suspicion of misappropriation and improprieties arise? Who raised those suspicions -- I.e. was it a professional and accredited accountant, or, a politician?

C. What threshold is needed in order to place a local in emergency trusteeship? Does purely the allegation of suspicion of improprieties trigger such threshold?

D. In case an emergency trusteeship is invoked, who has to be officially informed and how? What is the timeline for such action?

E. Is Local 1108 currently under the control of a trustee due to the emergency trusteeship supposedly invoked last week?

F. Does a trustee of a Local that has been put under emergency trusteeship have control over the finances of the Local or not? In case the answer is yes, why did the trustee need the signatures of two future interim e-board members?

Thanks,
IDEtoNJA

 

[TORCH67]

I'm proud of what Strong Union and the Netjets pilots did to get our contract in 2005. I'm not rubbing our success in your face at all! You know what we did and how we got there. If you can't even get 50% of your pilots to pay dues then the writting is on the wall. I sure hope the freeloaders that aren't paying dues can step up now and do their part. Money is only part of the equation. Motivation and a "fire in the belly" attitude is what it will take! Do the other 50 percent have that? I hope so, but doubt it from past performance!