Continental to Furlough

[JoeMerchant]

There's unity:
The top third is united in screwing everyone else for their own benefit...
The middle third is united in going happily through life with their heads in the sand...
The bottom third is united in knowing it will get thrown under the bus by the other 2/3rds ...again.

How's that?

That's the truth.....I like it when people tell the truth....You aren't union leadership material however.....

 

[SMOE]

That's the truth.....I like it when people tell the truth....You aren't union leadership material however.....

Your right. I would have to possess exceptional multi-tasking skills.

e.g. To be Union Leadership I would have to figure out a way to piss on the pilot group, convince them its raining, all the while dealing a nice cushy management job to fall into after the next POS is ratified.

 

[Flopgut]

Villifying individuals because they elect to exercise lawful contractual options comes off as whining, greedy behavior.

Contractural!? There's nothing contractural about it! Age 65 was seniority aggression outside the collective bargaining process.

If there's a legitimate early out that some pilots choose not to take simply because they happen to be senior they will be rightfully villified.

 

[Flopgut]

Look guys, I know the 65 change is an emotional topic. I myself, like many others are being affected by it. This law change did not happen because a bunch of guys coming up on 60 wanted to take junior pilot jobs. This happened as a result of our government and the FAA bringing our retirement age in line with ICAO.

http://www.faa.gov/news/press_releases/news_story.cfm?newsId=8027

So for most of the guys that were coming up on 60, this was a windfall. At a time when so much was given up in concessions, this was an opportunity to make more money before retirement. No one is forcing these guys to fly to 65. If they are sick of the lifestyle and BS that we put up with on a daily basis then by all means retire. Many are deciding not to retire.

I guess my point is this. If we were in the same position as they are, I think most of us would do what they are doing. Yes is sucks for us junior guys, but that's life. Age 65 is here. All the bitching won't change it.

I think your worldview on this issue is too simplistic.

You pose the question: What would we do if we were them? Well, what did they do when they were in our position? Years ago I could go on a 4 day trip (I'm CAL) with a striker and by the end of the trip the guy hadn't stopped bitching about the strike and had accounted for every nickel he lost to replacement workers. He had his scab list out more than his charts! (This was less than ten years ago BTW) Now, fast forward to the present. This dude took my seat, no less outside the CBA, and it's supposed to be perfectly OK?? Right. Account for this past behavior in your reasoning and you'll come to realize those of us marginalized have already proven ourselves more accepting and professional than those who preceed us. It's not improper that as this new rule plays out to assert ourselves and manage the effects in the mean time. If there's a good early out and guys don't take it, it is appropriate to point out to them how they acted when they were marginalized.

 

[Ex737Driver]

I think your worldview on this issue is too simplistic.

You pose the question: What would we do if we were them? Well, what did they do when they were in our position? Years ago I could go on a 4 day trip (I'm CAL) with a striker and by the end of the trip the guy hadn't stopped bitching about the strike and had accounted for every nickel he lost to replacement workers. He had his scab list out more than his charts! (This was less than ten years ago BTW) Now, fast forward to the present. This dude took my seat, no less outside the CBA, and it's supposed to be perfectly OK?? Right. Account for this past behavior in your reasoning and you'll come to realize those of us marginalized have already proven ourselves more accepting and professional than those who preceed us. It's not improper that as this new rule plays out to assert ourselves and manage the effects in the mean time. If there's a good early out and guys don't take it, it is appropriate to point out to them how they acted when they were marginalized.

What one generation accepts, the next embraces. Look at diversity and homosexuality for examples.

 

[eyeamthechosen1]

Raising the retirement age was the right thing to do but it was the wrong time to do it. At this point, everything in the industry is going down the drain to fuel prices, bankruptcies to quality of life. The icing on the cake was the Age 65 rule. All these guys saying they are not ready to retire is nonsense because 10 years ago they all KNEW they had to hit the door at 60. When the rumblings of a rule change were being heard then everyone had a change of heart. As far as the union goes, from my estimation they are only looking out for the guys at the top of the seniority list. Everyone else might else well be on probation because there isn't anyone looking out for them. For those guys that are getting furloughed at CAL why don't send a thank you card to those "Age 65 guys" that says "Enjoy your stay and I hope you save your money this time."

 

[densoo]

There's unity:
The top third is united in screwing everyone else for their own benefit...
The middle third is united in going happily through life with their heads in the sand...
The bottom third is united in knowing it will get thrown under the bus by the other 2/3rds ...again.

How's that?

And it works extremely well at CAL. The furlough cycles hit right the time they're finalizing a contract. The B3rd isn't represented because furloughed pilots can't vote. Their pay, benefits, work rules (reserve by and large), are robbed. After the contract is signed the recalls start. Management has kept the overall cost of the contract is low, senior guys kept their retirement and middle guys kept their jobs.

 

[SFR]

I would not worry too much about what is going to happen.

The best time to be furloughed at CAL is in the first year anyway. That is exactly what I wanted my first year, it cost me more to go to work then.

Either way, if they offer 3-6 month leaves I may jump on that. I am 1100 from bottom. There are a handful of us that will take time off, so hopfullywe will minimize furloughs.

Sebd

 

[whatitdoing?]

I'd go for it too. I'm on the verge of quiting, so a 6 month leave would be fine.

 

[SMOE]

I'd go for it too. I'm on the verge of quiting, so a 6 month leave would be fine.

Ich Auch!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[bizicmo]

I knew someone that quit just a few months ago. Been there I think just past a year and moved on.

 

[atrdriver]

Look guys, I know the 65 change is an emotional topic. I myself, like many others are being affected by it. This law change did not happen because a bunch of guys coming up on 60 wanted to take junior pilot jobs. This happened as a result of our government and the FAA bringing our retirement age in line with ICAO.

Bull&^%@. It would not have happened had the pro age 65 guys not caused a stink. Thus the name of the law that allowed it. These guys are selfish, whining, arrogant self serving pricks and should be treated as such.

 

[embpic1]

Bull&^%@. It would not have happened had the pro age 65 guys not caused a stink. Thus the name of the law that allowed it. These guys are selfish, whining, arrogant self serving pricks and should be treated as such.

Oh that makes sense. NOT! The age 65 guys are a minority. This rule change came about because the politicians and the FAA decided to join the rest of the world and make 65 the new retirement age. And to say all the pro age 65 guys are selfish, whining, arrogant self serving pricks just shows how immature some of you are.

America is a democracy last time I checked. This wasn't a vote that was exclusive to pilots. It was voted in by elected representatives. That's the way it works here. It is law. It is not going to change. Age 65 is here to stay. You want to take it out on the 60+ captain that your flying with? Fine. Be an a$$. See how far that gets ya...

 

[eaglesview]

Bull&^%@. It would not have happened had the pro age 65 guys not caused a stink. Thus the name of the law that allowed it. These guys are selfish, whining, arrogant self serving pricks and should be treated as such.

Get over it. I am 46 and being affected by them just like the rest of us but they have a right to be here. In many cases they were stripped of pensions and pay and have no choice. Ever think that some of them don't want to be here but are here any way out of nesessity. So who is really being the "self serving prick?"

 

[Double Shot]

America is a democracy last time I checked.


Actually America is a Republic.

 

[embpic1]

America is a democracy last time I checked.


Actually America is a Republic.

Sure. You are splitting hairs here however.

A quote on the subject:

But the main Amendment that tipped the scales from the national government of the United States being a mere republic to being a true representative democracy was the often-overlooked Seventeenth Amendment, which took effect in 1913. Since 1913 the U.S. Senate has been elected directly by the voters, rather than being appointed by the state legislatures. That makes the national government democratic in form, as well as being a republic.

 

[spacecadet1]

Wait till this same group of guys gets to 65. They'll want it changed to 70. By then there will be a super absorbent version of Depends.

 

[atrdriver]

Get over it. I am 46 and being affected by them just like the rest of us but they have a right to be here. In many cases they were stripped of pensions and pay and have no choice. Ever think that some of them don't want to be here but are here any way out of nesessity. So who is really being the "self serving prick?"

They have a "right" to be here? Really? There is a "right" to be an airline pilot? Please. They knew the rules when they started the game, and those rules were just fine with them when it meant they moved up the ladder. But when their time came, all of a sudden it wasn't fair. As far as money goes, that is what it was all about in the first place. And they had however long to save and plan, and they didn't. That is not my fault. So yes, they are whining self serving pricks, and always will be.

 

[RLAblows]

These guys who proposed and supported age 65 also worked during the most lucrative time in aviation history. Most were hired at way lower total times and age then most pilots today, therefore giving them plenty of time to save for retirement. The poor decissions and choices of a few should not dictate the outcome of future generations to come, but unfortunately it has. The pilots today will never have the opportunities these pilots had, and all of this was taken away while the ever redundant, ineffective, and obsolete battle cry of "Unity and Brotherhood" was coming from these self serving few.

I'm sorry all of this happened to you guys, but I hear everyday, "you made the choice to be a pilot." Well....

Every decission that has been made on airline contracts over the past decade has all been to protect the upper ten percent of seniority lists. The rest have been terminated, furloughed, pushed back, downgraded, flow back.......but you guys kept your seats.

Anytime one of the post age 60 guys cries "Unity, Brotherhood" Look him in the eyes and tell him "Go F... himself, nevermind you won't have to, he already knows what he did was wrong, and selfish.

But they don't care

 

[eaglesview]

They have a "right" to be here? Really? There is a "right" to be an airline pilot? Please. They knew the rules when they started the game, and those rules were just fine with them when it meant they moved up the ladder. But when their time came, all of a sudden it wasn't fair. As far as money goes, that is what it was all about in the first place. And they had however long to save and plan, and they didn't. That is not my fault. So yes, they are whining self serving pricks, and always will be.

You still don't get it. In case you have been under a rock the last 7 years it's a new world out there. "They" would have been happy to retire if they could have done so with dignity and a bit of security. Due to realities beyond their,my and your control many of them are forced to stay for financial reasons. They planned for what was then the norm but that was taken away, not their fault. Suck it up like the rest of us and press on.