UNITED changing name to United Express

[Popeye0537]

Yeah, those RP guys sure busted their butts, I mean a contact without rig, overblock pay based on daily not leg to leg, lack of cancellation pay when you don't make a certain completion factor (good luck with that out of philly), and to boot, crap F.O. rates on an 86 seat aircraft. Thank god you guys busted your butt, its amazing with that contract that you got growth. My FAVORITE is your pilot that felt it necessary this week to tell me that he hoped he didn't get industry leading rates but rather only middle of the pack, that way they would keep growing... there you go champ, busting your butts again.

Wow are you bitter,

Lets clarify your spew.....

1) Post 9/11 contract
2)Over block from leg to leg
3)100% Cancellation pay/Completion factor 98.5%
4)FO rates in line with first year mainline rates...Delta being the exception.....they all suck
5)Highly doubt ANYONE would talk to you with your elitists attitude.
6)Thanks for your support!

 

[JoeMerchant]

It would be interesting to see how ALPA could justify serving two masters, exacting jobs for the mainline while usurping the senioirty and contract provisions at their represented regionals.

They can't.....the shirade will be over soon....

 

[n757st]

Wow are you bitter,

Lets clarify your spew.....

1) Post 9/11 contract
2)Over block from leg to leg
3)100% Cancellation pay/Completion factor 98.5%
4)FO rates in line with first year mainline rates...Delta being the exception.....they all suck
5)Highly doubt ANYONE would talk to you with your elitists attitude.
6)Thanks for your support!

Dude, not bitter, you have some good guys, and this tool was likely the exception rather then the rule, at least I hope, but its time guys like this grow a set and get paid what you are worth. Don't even try to justify your F.O. rates, they are no way in line with mainline numbers, they are crap. BTW, I do have something vested in your pay rates, you see my company bases our pay off an average of 5 regionals (including yours), then adds 3%, so if you get a raise, so do I. I will support you guys and march with you to get a better contract, but if this dude represents the majority of thought at your company, then you will be no better then mesa, because that is exactly the crap they pulled.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Dude, not bitter, you have some good guys, and this tool was likely the exception rather then the rule, at least I hope, but its time guys like this grow a set and get paid what you are worth. Don't even try to justify your F.O. rates, they are no way in line with mainline numbers, they are crap. BTW, I do have something vested in your pay rates, you see my company bases our pay off an average of 5 regionals (including yours), then adds 3%, so if you get a raise, so do I. I will support you guys and march with you to get a better contract, but if this dude represents the majority of thought at your company, then you will be no better then mesa, because that is exactly the crap they pulled.

n757st....Who do you work for?

 

[n757st]

n757st....Who do you work for?

AWAC, we have a whacked out contract that bases our pay on other regionals, thus the vigor from a lot of us to not have other companies "drop the ball". I am not trying to say that our FO rates are the best, though they are better then most, but we also do not fly an 86 seat jet around, when we did our rates were 45 - 55 dollars per hour, which while also crap, they are certainly much better then anything out there now. I am not trying to be elitist, I am just tired of seeing companys like Mesa and RP fly around with crappy contracts, because it hurts our negotiation position, and in our contract, can directly effect my pay. I assume you are at ASA, I was glad to see you guys got a decent contract and did not roll over, and our pay will go up as a result.. thank you.

 

[JoeMerchant]

AWAC, we have a whacked out contract that bases our pay on other regionals, thus the vigor from a lot of us to not have other companies "drop the ball". I am not trying to say that our FO rates are the best, though they are better then most, but we also do not fly an 86 seat jet around, when we did our rates were 45 - 55 dollars per hour, which while also crap, they are certainly much better then anything out there now. I am not trying to be elitist, I assume you are at ASA, I was glad to see you guys got a decent contract and did not roll over.

AWAC has always had one of the best contracts.....However you have also been penalized for that contract...much like CMR, ACA, and ALG/PDT.....It's not as simple as "not rolling over"....If we had a true union, we would have brand scope to protect those who "don't roll over"....and we would have transportability of seniority and contract minimums to protect those who "don't roll over".....

Mainline pilots are currently bidding rates that are lower than the old AWAC 146 rates............Not much of a union......

 

[n757st]

AWAC has always had one of the best contracts.....However you have also been penalized for that contract...much like CMR, ACA, and ALG/PDT.....It's not as simple as "not rolling over"....If we had a true union, we would have brand scope to protect those who "don't roll over"....and we would have transportability of seniority and contract minimums to protect those who "don't roll over".....

Mainline pilots are currently bidding rates that are lower than the old AWAC 146 rates............Not much of a union......

I couldn't agree with you more. That said, RP has an opportunity here, to raise the bar, a bar which NEEDS to be raised. Again, I will march with the RP guys to get them a better contract, but some of them (an granted this was an FO likely looking for an upgrade) just want the status quo, and it sucks that they do not realize its not just them embracing crappy wages, it affects EVERYONE. RP is making huge money right now, its time they demand their share.

The reason I reacted as I did was the statement that RP pilots "busted thier butts". Well, I couldn't agree more because with that contact they took it right in the rear end. Now its time to really they "bust your butts" and demand the contract that they deserve.

BTW, about the union, I have not been impressed with ALPA for a while, and its sad that due to us regional airlines that mainline pilots have to fly 100 seaters for often less then our regional rates, but I guess its still better then farming out bigger and bigger aircraft. The line had to be drawn, it should have been drawn a while ago.

 

[EMB170Pilot]

Sad but true, however I feel this time around if UAL does furlough (pretty sure we will but still an if) I will FIGHT hand and fist to secure LEFT seat jobs for our furloughed bubba's. We already have movement in that direction underway,

I'm all for this, just as long as you go below me on the senioirty list. I have to look out for me.

What you United pilots told me in the jumpseat was.

The 3 most important thing to a pilot are:

1. senority
2. senority
3. senority

 

[dooork]

AWAC, we have a whacked out contract that bases our pay on other regionals, thus the vigor from a lot of us to not have other companies "drop the ball". I am not trying to say that our FO rates are the best, though they are better then most, but we also do not fly an 86 seat jet around, when we did our rates were 45 - 55 dollars per hour, which while also crap, they are certainly much better then anything out there now. I am not trying to be elitist, I am just tired of seeing companys like Mesa and RP fly around with crappy contracts, because it hurts our negotiation position, and in our contract, can directly effect my pay. I assume you are at ASA, I was glad to see you guys got a decent contract and did not roll over, and our pay will go up as a result.. thank you.

Do you listen to your self? Instead of fighting for your contract you let the other guys do it!! then you have the balls to bitch when THEY drop the ball!

 

[n757st]

Do you listen to your self? Instead of fighting for your contract you let the other guys do it!! then you have the balls to bitch when THEY drop the ball!

We did fight for our contract... we have rig, trip touching vacation, and some of the best rates for 50 seat jets out there. One contingency in our contract is that we get a raise when you get a raise, so our pay will always be on top. All I am saying is get paid what you are worth and don't sell out for growth, but thats up to you guys... you could potentially have one of the best contracts out there and be respected, or you could be mesa, make your choice.

 

[imacdog]

AWAC has always had one of the best contracts.....However you have also been penalized for that contract...much like CMR, ACA, and ALG/PDT.....It's not as simple as "not rolling over"....If we had a true union, we would have brand scope to protect those who "don't roll over"....and we would have transportability of seniority and contract minimums to protect those who "don't roll over".....

Mainline pilots are currently bidding rates that are lower than the old AWAC 146 rates............Not much of a union......

With that attitude Joe, enjoy flying for crap wages for the rest of your career.

 

[JoeMerchant]

With that attitude Joe, enjoy flying for crap wages for the rest of your career.

It's not an "attitude".....It is reality...something you seem to want to ignore.....

I'm making over 100K to fly a turbo-prop...In this environment one could argue that isn't "crap wages"...

There is a lot of bravado and talk tough about "holding the line"....but 2 things end up happening....

1. The line is held and the company is penalized (ACA/Air Wisc./ALG/PDT/CMR/XJT etc)

2. With the threat of losing a job and having to start over again, the towell is thrown in so as to "live to fight another day"....

That is reality.....

A real union with the ability to move laterally, contract minimums, and brand scope would help alleviate the pressures that result in these two outcomes.....

Until then I will decide when the wages become "crap wages" and then I will quit and find a better paying job....

What's YOUR solution? More idle rhetoric about "holding the line"?

 

[EMB170Pilot]

Heard a rumor today that RAH will be flying 13 additional 170s for United. Is this the jet for jobs you were talking about sonny and would want some of your pilots to come over as captains?

 

[Sonny Crockett]

Heard a rumor today that RAH will be flying 13 additional 170s for United. Is this the jet for jobs you were talking about sonny and would want some of your pilots to come over as captains?

I am thinking the 190. Or else we will never agree to let Express fly them.. If any Express gains more flying becuase of the reduction at MAINLINE then YES our pilots (who are getting furloughed) should get a shot at the Captain seats-and when things flow the other way the host Express carrier will get a shot at our seats on Mainline.

TRUST ME.....OUR MEC has got some BALLS this time around and the 2172 pilots who were furloughed the last time around are PRETTY DAMN VOCAL about a flow back agreement--and not the small chicken bone right seat at Mesa and Skywest slots we had the last time!

 

[Sonny Crockett]

I'm all for this, just as long as you go below me on the senioirty list. I have to look out for me.

What you United pilots told me in the jumpseat was.

The 3 most important thing to a pilot are:

1. senority
2. senority
3. senority

It's spelled seniority

I am no spell check police officer!!

I don't want to take anyone's SENIORITY but I am guessing that UAL wants EMB-190's and that AINT GONNA HAPPEN WHILE WE FURLOUGH 1000's of PILOTS!

 

[waveflyer]

why would UAALPA consider letting anyone fly 190's instead of them?

It's amazing how you don't see that scope is the reason paycuts went so deep. LEARN SOMETHING!

 

[eaglesview]

why would UAALPA consider letting anyone fly 190's instead of them?

They won't.

 

[contrail67]

It's spelled seniority

I am no spell check police officer!!

I don't want to take anyone's SENIORITY but I am guessing that UAL wants EMB-190's and that AINT GONNA HAPPEN WHILE WE FURLOUGH 1000's of PILOTS!

It will NEVER happen in my opionion..no matter if we have guys on furlough or not. Left seat into the aircraft that they downsize to..... PERIOD.

 

[DOVPILOT]

HEY HEY!!

Let's keep the thread on topic please!

Rumor is United will have more E-jets on property.

SWEET

Sweet for you, bad for guys trying to feed their families, DHead!!!!

 

[Sonny Crockett]

I hope all the Express guys get what we are after....


We do not want to take jobs away. However if UAL furloughs Pilots do to a reduction in MAINLINE airplanes and flights--to INCREASE RJ flying--THEN WE WILL FIGHT FOR LEFT SEAT JOBS FOR OUR FURLOUGHED BROTHERS AND SISTERS!