UNITED changing name to United Express

[ifly4u]

I hope all the Express guys get what we are after....


We do not want to take jobs away. However if UAL furloughs Pilots do to a reduction in MAINLINE airplanes and flights--to INCREASE RJ flying--THEN WE WILL FIGHT FOR LEFT SEAT JOBS FOR OUR FURLOUGHED BROTHERS AND SISTERS!

UAL is not going to finance those planes RAH and Skywest are. Since we are demanding things how about a little quid pro quo in exchange and I don't mean some preferential hiring scheme but something real like UAL #'s for every pilot that will be stuck in the right seat swinging gear until the flow backs return. Or is this just a "what's mine is mine and what's yours is mine" type deal?

 

[contrail67]

That is what they did at NWA with Mesaba and Compass....seemed to work out well....until $130 barrell oil and the Delta Merger. Just has not needed to be brought up yet at United...but it looks like now it will be.

 

[Superpilot92]

why would UAALPA consider letting anyone fly 190's instead of them?

It's amazing how you don't see that scope is the reason paycuts went so deep. LEARN SOMETHING!

Couldn't have said it better!! Why not fight to get those planes at mainline? You wouldn't be worrying about it right now if they were. The E-Jets should have never been allowed at the regionals, or any jet for that matter. Why should you be fighting for jobs at a regional that could grow at the expense of YOUR company and job losses?

 

[jayme]

I hope all the Express guys get what we are after....


We do not want to take jobs away. However if UAL furloughs Pilots do to a reduction in MAINLINE airplanes and flights--to INCREASE RJ flying--THEN WE WILL FIGHT FOR LEFT SEAT JOBS FOR OUR FURLOUGHED BROTHERS AND SISTERS!

I guess you forgot. Let me remind you. You and your predecessors SOLD those jobs for percieved job security. It's not the regional pilot's responsibility to take the fall because you were hoodwinked.

 

[Sonny Crockett]

I guess you forgot. Let me remind you. You and your predecessors SOLD those jobs for percieved job security. It's not the regional pilot's responsibility to take the fall because you were hoodwinked.

I didn't sell anything.

Had a Skywest guy on a jumpseat spouting off how Skywest is ready to take over UAL flying when UAL goes Chap. 7. WITH WHAT??? an RJ?????

 

[contrail67]

They seem to forget who is giving them the flying....hmmmm.

 

[TAWS]

I have to laugh when Pilots (at any airline) say, "it's our flying!"

It doesn't matter who you fly for, it's the company's flying / shareholder's flying.

UAL is in a REAL bind this time, who do you think would lend them money to purchase new aircraft?

A: Nobody!!!

So who do you think has the finances to purchase / provide new flying?

A: SkyWest and RAH.

Until ALPA starts providing money for new aircraft, you guys don't own sh!t and neither does our Pilot group.

If you have ever worked outside of the airlines, you would know what the real world looks like - it's not pretty!

The best thing you guys can do is get the best deal for your furloughees because they are going to ram this down your throats so fast (this fall/winter) that your heads will spin. But you're not alone, because we will hardly be the winners either. Mngt will package this to hurt us also - nobody will be happy.

 

[waveflyer]

where did skywest and rah get their money? guaranteed profits who's entire purpose is to break the unions and the concept of seniority.

It's the shareholder's planes? ok. Do airplanes fly w/o pilots? Scope clauses exist to protect all airline pilots careers-- you getting more jets will do nothing but prolong your career at a 'regional'. Get those jets on mainline property and your major career starts that much sooner. Scope is everything.

 

[Sonny Crockett]

What we OWN?

Well...WE DO OWN OUR UAL-ALPA

Pretty much 100% of the UAL guys are pretty VOCAL this time around when it comes to FURLOUGH TALK.

 

[contrail67]

I have to laugh when Pilots (at any airline) say, "it's our flying!"

It doesn't matter who you fly for, it's the company's flying / shareholder's flying.

UAL is in a REAL bind this time, who do you think would lend them money to purchase new aircraft?

A: Nobody!!!

So who do you think has the finances to purchase / provide new flying?

A: SkyWest and RAH.

Until ALPA starts providing money for new aircraft, you guys don't own sh!t and neither does our Pilot group.

If you have ever worked outside of the airlines, you would know what the real world looks like - it's not pretty!

The best thing you guys can do is get the best deal for your furloughees because they are going to ram this down your throats so fast (this fall/winter) that your heads will spin. But you're not alone, because we will hardly be the winners either. Mngt will package this to hurt us also - nobody will be happy.

Don't be so confident of your comments....there is alot of negotiating on this right now. There is more on the table than you realize.

 

[DashTrash400]

Prettymuch everyone here can agree that ALPA dropped the ball on scope long ago and it's an absolute f'in disaster now. How to fix it? I'm wracking my brain but am failing to see how having pilots from two different companies and two different seniority lists flying a plane owned by the regional due to the mainline pilots' lack of foresight and/or cojones in securing that flying for mainline is ANY less of an absolute f'in disaster.

 

[jayme]

I didn't sell anything.

Had a Skywest guy on a jumpseat spouting off how Skywest is ready to take over UAL flying when UAL goes Chap. 7. WITH WHAT??? an RJ?????

Are you saying you've either voted NO or not voted on a single contract since you've been there? If so, I'm tragically mistaken. Congratulations on doing your part to protect the profession. I guess you can blame your co-workers/predecessors for selling the profession out. They sold MY ability to get to mainline for a few trinkets, and now they want to take even more from the new guys in the profession - their left seats in a thriving regional.

I hope you kicked that SkyWest guy in the babymaker. If not, PM me his name and I'll do it for you if I ever see him.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Prettymuch everyone here can agree that ALPA dropped the ball on scope long ago and it's an absolute f'in disaster now. How to fix it? I'm wracking my brain but am failing to see how having pilots from two different companies and two different seniority lists flying a plane owned by the regional due to the mainline pilots' lack of foresight and/or cojones in securing that flying for mainline is ANY less of an absolute f'in disaster.

ALPA first "studied" the problem in 1995.....That's right... 13 years ago....Still no solutions....but more committees....

Here are the 1995, 1996, and 1997 reports...

http://www.rjdefense.com/scprpts.pdf

Now the problem has gotten much more complicated and more difficult to solve.....The chance for "single lists" on each property has probably passed....

Now each group is going to defend it's turf as best they can....

 

[Sonny Crockett]

Are you saying you've either voted NO or not voted on a single contract since you've been there? If so, I'm tragically mistaken. Congratulations on doing your part to protect the profession. I guess you can blame your co-workers/predecessors for selling the profession out. They sold MY ability to get to mainline for a few trinkets, and now they want to take even more from the new guys in the profession - their left seats in a thriving regional.

I hope you kicked that SkyWest guy in the babymaker. If not, PM me his name and I'll do it for you if I ever see him.

I VOTED NO. I was once an EXPRESS guy too, so don't swinging the bat at me just yet, WHITEFORD was an idiot and signed away the ERJ-170 during the 2002 BK years....I was furloughed and laughed at the crappy flow back, went to fly 727's and MD-88's for a Charter company. I am all for ONE LIST. Always have been, the whipsawing has got to stop. I have been on BOTH sides of the issue.

ALPA needs to fix this. In my eyes if they do not I am out of here and will go fly as an expat. United is a great company just BAD MANAGERS running it into the ground.

However I will VOTE NO again to any give to SCOPE. Just aint gonna happen in the current climate.

"I am just saying"

 

[jayme]

Cool. I'm glad we're on the same side.

BTW, when you say ALPA needs to fix this, are you saying ALPA national, or your local? Cuz ALPA national apparently doesn't hold much sway with the SkyWest folks. That vote went down in flames. I think this needs to be fixed by you and your co-workers, not some ambiguous notion of "ALPA".

 

[DashTrash400]

Locals can only apply bandaids. The real solution to what ails us is going to require strong leadership at the national level. Hell, I'd settle for strong leadership at ALPA National...but a truly comprehensive solution is going to require industry-wide cooperation, between unions.

 

[EMB170Pilot]

Locals can only apply bandaids. The real solution to what ails us is going to require strong leadership at the national level. Hell, I'd settle for strong leadership at ALPA National...but a truly comprehensive solution is going to require industry-wide cooperation, between unions.

What if your regional doesn't have a union?

 

[DashTrash400]

If the unions showed some real leadership and vision in dealing with the scope issue, I have a feeling that the non-union regionals wouldn't stay that way for long.

 

[JoeMerchant]

If the unions showed some real leadership and vision in dealing with the scope issue, I have a feeling that the non-union regionals wouldn't stay that way for long.

BINGO! If ALPA took a leadership role in this issue....The regionals would come to them....If ALPA keeps screwing it up....they won't.....

 

[eaglesview]

BINGO! If ALPA took a leadership role in this issue....The regionals would come to them....If ALPA keeps screwing it up....they won't.....

You should hope ALPA keeps screwing up, save yourself the heartburn.