ALPA/401k revisited

[Medeco]

So I heard another pilot yesterday talking about a way to get back at ALPA for the 401K issue.

Tell me your thoughts.

IF the resolution is passed, we as individuals should tell the company to stop automatically deducting our dues. This will cause ALPA to bill all pilots for there dues.

We send them our normal amount, but not the additional.

This would take a large group acting in harmony to make the point, which is a challenge in itself.

Can this be done?

Medeco

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Your suggestion will simply delay the dues... not stop it...


Why not become part of the political process... contact your status reps that 66% of your fellow pilots didn't bother to vote for and tell them how to vote....

I know self government is a challenge... but hey... it's YOUR career....

 

[Medeco]

I have taked with some reps.

It appears that they may vote against it, but that doesnt mean it will stop it.

I'm all for participating in the process the correct way, but if they dont listen to a large portion of dues paying members saying DONT DO THIS, then a protest of sort may be a good wake up call.

Thank you for your input.

Medeco

 

[sweptback]

If the reps don't vote the wishes of the pilot group, recalling them would be a much stronger statement then a "protest" like this.

If the ASA reps vote no and it still passes, that's democracy in action. You don't move to Canada after your chosen presidential candidate loses, right?

 

[JoeMerchant]

So I heard another pilot yesterday talking about a way to get back at ALPA for the 401K issue.

Tell me your thoughts.

IF the resolution is passed, we as individuals should tell the company to stop automatically deducting our dues. This will cause ALPA to bill all pilots for there dues.

We send them our normal amount, but not the additional.

This would take a large group acting in harmony to make the point, which is a challenge in itself.

Can this be done?

Medeco

Yes it can be done and if it is done by many people it will cost ALPA more than they are getting in this misguided move......

I would suggest however that you withold ALL dues, not just the 401k amount....In either case you will go into bad standing and the union will exercise the Agency Shop clause....However that process will take time and you can write a check and come current after they start to come after you.....If large numbers of people do it, it will take up much ALPA resources to go after everyone....

Another thing you can do to send a message is to write your comments on the ALPA PAC postage paid envelopes that come in the ALPA magazine....Don't send any money....just constructive comments......

People aren't saving enough for retirement as it is...to take money that was set aside for retirement is shortsighted.....

 

[JoeMerchant]

If the reps don't vote the wishes of the pilot group, recalling them would be a much stronger statement then a "protest" like this.

If the ASA reps vote no and it still passes, that's democracy in action. You don't move to Canada after your chosen presidential candidate loses, right?

Democracy can be dangerous....and yes at some point a revolution is called for....

 

[sweptback]

People aren't saving enough for retirement as it is...to take money that was set aside for retirement is shortsighted.....

Look, I don't like this proposal. I'm not a rep, but I've made my views clear to the reps (as everybody should!). If they need to raise dues, they need to do it across the board. I hope it doesn't come to that though.

However, it doesn't take money set aside for retirement. It just makes you pay a little more in dues. Just like how when your medical premiums go up you don't put less in your retirement plan... you just pay a little more in premiums.

But you already knew this. You're smart, you just turn everything into a means to advance your agenda. I just like calling you on your BS.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Look, I don't like this proposal. I'm not a rep, but I've made my views clear to the reps (as everybody should!). If they need to raise dues, they need to do it across the board. I hope it doesn't come to that though.

However, it doesn't take money set aside for retirement. It just makes you pay a little more in dues. Just like how when your medical premiums go up you don't put less in your retirement plan... you just pay a little more in premiums.

But you already knew this. You're smart, you just turn everything into a means to advance your agenda. I just like calling you on your BS.

If some is going to set about X amount of money for retirement, then yes it does reduce how much they will put away......Part of that X will now go to Herndon instead of to the 401k.....

It's like the people who say this isn't a dues increase...it most certainly is if you participate in the 401k and your airline doesn't have a retirement plan....

For some people who don't have much extra income, they reduce what they put into retirement when other costs go up....including health insurance or union dues....

We need to encourage more 401k participation and not less...This country isn't preparing for retirement and Obama isn't going to solve that problem.....

As for your last snide remark, would you care to tell me what my "agenda" is? We all have "agendas" and we all try to advance them....I suspect you have no idea what my "agenda" is.....While we're at it, what is YOUR agenda?

 

[Soverytired]

Just pay it with a smile.

Just because pilots paychecks have dropped considerably over the past decade, it doesn't mean ALPA should have to suffer too.

 

[mtsupilot376]

Take that ALPA!

I cancelled my 401k and am now investing in the private sector instead.

 

[sweptback]

If some is going to set about X amount of money for retirement, then yes it does reduce how much they will put away......Part of that X will now go to Herndon instead of to the 401k.....

You can't be serious. Nobody I know says "I'm only going to spend X on retirement" and then adjusts that based on the bills they have that month.

The whole point of a 401k is that it is a "pay yourself first" setup. Your 401k money comes out before any deductions, taxes, or bills.

A dues increase will not affect this, nor will a tax increase, or any other increase.

If somebody chooses to reduce their 401k contributions over a few dollars extra per month, that's their choice, but not a very smart one.

 

[sweptback]

I cancelled my 401k and am now investing in the private sector instead.

No offense, but that's pretty dumb.

A 401k is investing in the "private sector" unless you only invest in government bonds.

Also, by canceling your 401k you just gave up free money in the company match. That will add up to much, much more over the course of your life than the $5 extra per month you would pay in dues.

You should be investing in both a 401k and an IRA. As much as you can afford!

 

[mtsupilot376]

is ALPA taking a chunk of our performance plus checks too?

 

[JoeMerchant]

You can't be serious. Nobody I know says "I'm only going to spend X on retirement" and then adjusts that based on the bills they have that month.

The whole point of a 401k is that it is a "pay yourself first" setup. Your 401k money comes out before any deductions, taxes, or bills.

A dues increase will not affect this, nor will a tax increase, or any other increase.

If somebody chooses to reduce their 401k contributions over a few dollars extra per month, that's their choice, but not a very smart one.

The money is coming from somewhere.....If they are only contributing what they can afford, then as witholdings (union dues, health insurance, and taxes) increase, they have to withold less....The only one they can realistically reduce is the 401k contribution.....Little bits of money add up to real money....

In addition ALPA hasn't EARNED the right to demand more dues money....In fact a good argument could be made that ALPA's failures have contributed to the budget problem they are facing.....Is the ALPA President shaving any of his 400,000 plus compensation package?

By the way.....What is my "agenda".....and what is your "agenda"....

 

[JoeMerchant]

No offense, but that's pretty dumb.

A 401k is investing in the "private sector" unless you only invest in government bonds.

Also, by canceling your 401k you just gave up free money in the company match. That will add up to much, much more over the course of your life than the $5 extra per month you would pay in dues.

You should be investing in both a 401k and an IRA. As much as you can afford!

Sweptback....I wouldn't cancel the 401k, but you can see how this affects peoples decisions....There are several advantages of the 401k

1. Company match
2. Tax deferred growth
3. Money was taken out before ALPA dues which added to ones bottom line.

We still have the company match, however the other 2 advantages are in danger. ALPA wants to tax that money and there is a high probability that future taxes will be higher than current taxes...We don't need to give people reasons to not prepare for their retirement.....

 

[JoeMerchant]

is ALPA taking a chunk of our performance plus checks too?

YES it is.

 

[mtsupilot376]

See that just doesn't make sense. We bust our asses out on the line to make sure that our numbers are good. This, in turn, ensures that the company is in a good relationship with our one and only client. So what is the incentive now?
So let me get this straight, ALPA in an interest to protect our jobs wants more money from us, but they are going to take it from our retirement and our performance bonuses. This removes our incentives both to invest in the future and to post good numbers on the line.

Way to go ALPA.

 

[DoinTime]

I cancelled my 401k and am now investing in the private sector instead.

You do realize that regardless if you participate in your 401 that you will be paying the same amount of dues, right?

 

[11thHour]

So I poured through the latest ALPA "Airline Pilot" magazine, and didn't see this mentioned at all. So I either just missed it - OR (more likely) - they don't want us to know about it. I'm very angry about this. Rest assured my rep has heard an earful from me!

 

[dojetdriver]

So I poured through the latest ALPA "Airline Pilot" magazine, and didn't see this mentioned at all. So I either just missed it - OR (more likely) - they don't want us to know about it. I'm very angry about this. Rest assured my rep has heard an earful from me!

I'm sure there were plenty of bright/glossy/shiny photos of some ALPA guys sitting around a table somewhere involved in some kind of "conference" or calling themselves some kind of "team" or "taskforce" resolving some issue.

If they wanted to save money, they could start by possibly spending LESS money on the magazine.

Yeah, there is SOME good info in there SOMETIMES, but good grief.