Frontier votes are in!!!! The pilots vote.....

[Dizel8]

Watch what this gets all of the F9 pilots a few months from now.

Maybe something, maybe nothing. You pays your money and you takes your chance.

Look at the Aloha pillots flying the freight for no dinaros? !

 

[737 Pylt]

YES!! 80% of them did!!!

unbeleiveable!!! Save the Airline!!! sheesh

So bob, what would the JB pilots have done in the same situation? Their airline is under attack from LUV and they are just trying to survive, pay their bills and feed their families. Its real easy to point the finger and tell someone to "take one for the team" when that someone isn't you!
Sheesh!

737

 

[Mamma]

You get your facts straight. Alaska had an arbitrator impose our current contract. We did not "volunteer" for this but we sure as hell are going to fight to get it back. YOU can roll over like a lap-dog and give give give so management and wall street can line their pockets, but some of us are going to try and up the bar. It may be futile but at least men and women of conviction and courage are going to try. Think about this....if you raise ticket prices $1.00 per hour on flights with an average of 100 paying passengers on board and gave that to the pilots the captain could get a $65 an hour raise and the FO could get $35. Let the company keep the rest. Just my naive solution...but it is better than rolling over.

The F9 pilots did what we all would have done, don't kid yourselves, look at the evidence. The big U started it, UAUA followed, AMR, DAL, NWA, ALK etc. all joined.

I think it is unfair to blame the F9 pilots for anything, they, like the rest of us, are holding on for dear life, can you blame them, would you truly have done differently? If you say yes, in 98% percent of the cases, you are full of horse manure. Internet bravado and all that!

 

[Sgt. Hartman]

Its real easy to point the finger and tell someone to "take one for the team" when that someone isn't you!


737

That there is the best point ever made on FI.com. It also just about sums up every thread on this site!

Good luck Frontier Friends!

 

[waveflyer]

I like the Alaska pilots view. We get paid where we take a stand. All the majors took OFFENSIVE cuts- and now where are we? yeah... at the precipice of another ugly downturn and all our companies are no better off. We either learn the lesson that airplanes don't fly w/o pilots or we don't.
I just hate that i chose a career w/ so many WEAK-D!CKS
Your pay was low enough F9- but i do put the blame on all the majors flying for less than you, before you

 

[Lear70]

Funny, I could have sworn y'all were in contract negotiaions, did you vote in a new, better paying contract. I must have missed it!

Nope, but we voted DOWN a contract last September that was sub-standard with minuscule pay raises and BIG losses in QOL in just about every other section.

Like I said, not everyone caves, nor do they have to; it makes almost ZERO difference to the airline's bottom line, but go ahead, give concessions; management loves a sucker.

Wishing the folks at Alaska and AA the best of luck with their contract talks; those pilots seem to be the only ones "taking it back".

 

[Dizel8]

You get your facts straight.

Hey, I am just trying to defend the F9 pilots, don't work there, but I realize when push comes to shove, sometimes real bad stuff happens and people tend to make their choices accordingly.

When was the last time pilots truly took a stand? I cannot remember, probably when the Comair guys walked. Times of course was a bit different, but they did indeed walk.

U saw two Ch.11s in short order, the pilots got pillaged, gave up mostly everything, including the pension. UAL was next, they too got hosed, after all, U had already sacrificed the pension, did UAL have a choice?

My point isn't who did what or why, my point is, that most, when a knife is held at their throats, choose what appears to be survival. That is what the F9 pilots are doing, hoping to live another day, only those who are walking in their shoes, have the right to chastise them.

I am fully knowledgeable about what little their concessions matter in the grand scheme of things, on a CASM basis, it truly amounts to nothing. Probably less than $1 per ticket, but they are doing what they feel is something.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

When was the last time pilots truly took a stand?

Indy Air pilots had the opportunity to take pay cuts to save the Airline... they said no... and the airline tanked...

Depends on how you look at it..... I say the paycuts would not have made a difference...

In addition, the F9 biz model is allot better than Indy.

 

[Dizel8]

Indy Air pilots had the opportunity to take pay cuts to save the Airline... they said no... and the airline tanked...

The Indy model was almost dead from the get go! The only people that made money on that deal was management. When they were asked, the airline was so far gone it was a given it would shut down, the only thing a paycut would have accomplished was better bonuses to the execs.

Is F9 going to make it, only if the investor story is true, otherwise I fear they do not have long. However, maybe the investor is Branson, in which case, they could indeed survive and prosper.

 

[pkober]

The F9 pilots did what we all would have done, don't kid yourselves, look at the evidence. The big U started it, UAUA followed, AMR, DAL, NWA, ALK etc. all joined.

Wrong. Not me. I believe that if you give management that money now you will never get it back. It doesn't matter what they promise. They lie.

 

[Dizel8]

Wrong. Not me. I beleive that if you give management that money now you will never get it back. It doesn't matter what they promise. They lie.

Did you realize this before or after "two great airlines, one great future" or when TWA management kept asking for just a little more?

Of course they lie, if their mouths are moving, they are lying.

 

[Pilotbob3]

So bob, what would the JB pilots have done in the same situation? Their airline is under attack from LUV and they are just trying to survive, pay their bills and feed their families. Its real easy to point the finger and tell someone to "take one for the team" when that someone isn't you!
Sheesh!

737

The JB pilots would have voted NO by 80%!!! Well at least I would have voted NO...unfortunately there is too much fear and saving the airline mentalities out there. every airline is under attack...every pilot is trying to survive, pay bills and feed families. thats a scabs excuse for crossing the picket line anyway. taking a stand is important and is a sacrafice,and not being taken advantage of by management when management knows cutting pilot pay is not going to save the airline but will shore up their golden parachutes!!! tell me when is a good time to take a stand and when it wouldn't be a sacrafice?

 

[rudder]

Wrong. Not me. I believe that if you give management that money now you will never get it back. It doesn't matter what they promise. They lie.

Never give up $$$ without getting either an ownership stake or a measure of control in exchange. If they won't give this to you, then you are being had.

 

[Mamma]

I am fully knowledgeable about what little their concessions matter in the grand scheme of things, on a CASM basis, it truly amounts to nothing. Probably less than $1 per ticket, but they are doing what they feel is something.

What they "feel is something?" That should not be a motivator...what I "Feel". If management presented them with hard numbers showing them what their paycut was going to offer the company then maybe I could understand it. But, less than $1.00 a ticket? Do you think F9 went to the insurance companies, lawyers, caterers, Live TV, and so on and said we want to pay less because they are having a hard time? My guess is not. Did the CEO and management take cuts? This is a management failure to earn their money and create a successful business plan. If they are in such dire straights that these cuts to pilot pay are the only thing that will save the airline then I think things are not going to work out there. I wish the best to Frontier pilots and I hope their decision pans out for them.

 

[Mamma]

Never give up $$$ without getting either an ownership stake or a measure of control in exchange. If they won't give this to you, then you are being had.

Now that is the best post on FI I have seen in awhile.

 

[PCL_128]

I disagree with your decision, but it was yours to make. I hope it works out for the F9 pilots, but I'm skeptical. Good luck.

 

[QCappy]

But you gave up 100M correct?

No. We were handed a $100M paycut. We didn't get to vote on that, it was given. It's called arbitration. You don't get to vote on arbitration. Learn what you're talking about before you open your pie hole.:angryfire

 

[737 Pylt]

The JB pilots would have voted NO by 80%!!! Well at least I would have voted NO...unfortunately there is too much fear and saving the airline mentalities out there. every airline is under attack...every pilot is trying to survive, pay bills and feed families. thats a scabs excuse for crossing the picket line anyway. taking a stand is important and is a sacrafice,and not being taken advantage of by management when management knows cutting pilot pay is not going to save the airline but will shore up their golden parachutes!!! tell me when is a good time to take a stand and when it wouldn't be a sacrafice?

So when it comes time for JB pilots to not take a $$ cut to save their respective asses, I look forward to you and your coworkers (80% to quote you) to "take one for the team," and the industry.
Just curious, how would you expect to do that without a union?
I anxiously await your answer!

737

 

[Dizel8]

No. We were handed a $100M paycut. We didn't get to vote on that, it was given. It's called arbitration. You don't get to vote on arbitration. Learn what you're talking about before you open your pie hole.:angryfire

Get a grip Qcappy! Still flying right, didn't take your pram and went home? Didn't down tools and walked?

 

[Ratherbsurfing]

Get a grip Qcappy! Still flying right, didn't take your pram and went home? Didn't down tools and walked?

Could you please translate this into english.