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Frontier votes are in!!!! The pilots vote.....

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pkober said:
Wrong. Not me. I beleive that if you give management that money now you will never get it back. It doesn't matter what they promise. They lie.
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Did you realize this before or after "two great airlines, one great future" or when TWA management kept asking for just a little more?

Of course they lie, if their mouths are moving, they are lying.
 
737 Pylt said:
So bob, what would the JB pilots have done in the same situation? Their airline is under attack from LUV and they are just trying to survive, pay their bills and feed their families. Its real easy to point the finger and tell someone to "take one for the team" when that someone isn't you!
Sheesh!

737
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The JB pilots would have voted NO by 80%!!! Well at least I would have voted NO...unfortunately there is too much fear and saving the airline mentalities out there. every airline is under attack...every pilot is trying to survive, pay bills and feed families. thats a scabs excuse for crossing the picket line anyway. taking a stand is important and is a sacrafice,and not being taken advantage of by management when management knows cutting pilot pay is not going to save the airline but will shore up their golden parachutes!!! tell me when is a good time to take a stand and when it wouldn't be a sacrafice?
 
pkober said:
Wrong. Not me. I believe that if you give management that money now you will never get it back. It doesn't matter what they promise. They lie.
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Never give up $$$ without getting either an ownership stake or a measure of control in exchange. If they won't give this to you, then you are being had.
 
Dizel8 said:
I am fully knowledgeable about what little their concessions matter in the grand scheme of things, on a CASM basis, it truly amounts to nothing. Probably less than $1 per ticket, but they are doing what they feel is something.
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What they "feel is something?" That should not be a motivator...what I "Feel". If management presented them with hard numbers showing them what their paycut was going to offer the company then maybe I could understand it. But, less than $1.00 a ticket? Do you think F9 went to the insurance companies, lawyers, caterers, Live TV, and so on and said we want to pay less because they are having a hard time? My guess is not. Did the CEO and management take cuts? This is a management failure to earn their money and create a successful business plan. If they are in such dire straights that these cuts to pilot pay are the only thing that will save the airline then I think things are not going to work out there. I wish the best to Frontier pilots and I hope their decision pans out for them.
 
I disagree with your decision, but it was yours to make. I hope it works out for the F9 pilots, but I'm skeptical. Good luck.
 
Dizel8 said:
But you gave up 100M correct?
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No. We were handed a $100M paycut. We didn't get to vote on that, it was given. It's called arbitration. You don't get to vote on arbitration. Learn what you're talking about before you open your pie hole.:angryfire
 
Pilotbob3 said:
The JB pilots would have voted NO by 80%!!! Well at least I would have voted NO...unfortunately there is too much fear and saving the airline mentalities out there. every airline is under attack...every pilot is trying to survive, pay bills and feed families. thats a scabs excuse for crossing the picket line anyway. taking a stand is important and is a sacrafice,and not being taken advantage of by management when management knows cutting pilot pay is not going to save the airline but will shore up their golden parachutes!!! tell me when is a good time to take a stand and when it wouldn't be a sacrafice?
Click to expand...

So when it comes time for JB pilots to not take a $$ cut to save their respective asses, I look forward to you and your coworkers (80% to quote you) to "take one for the team," and the industry.
Just curious, how would you expect to do that without a union?
I anxiously await your answer!

737
 
QCappy said:
No. We were handed a $100M paycut. We didn't get to vote on that, it was given. It's called arbitration. You don't get to vote on arbitration. Learn what you're talking about before you open your pie hole.:angryfire
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Get a grip Qcappy! Still flying right, didn't take your pram and went home? Didn't down tools and walked?
 
Nah, stay off the booze, bad for my diet!

To "down tools and walk" is english for work stoppage. To take your "pram and go home" means you are acting like a woman. Or you could say, to "throw all of your toys out of the pram," in which case you be acting like an upset baby.

That was the english lesson for the day!
 
Dizel8 said:
Nah, stay off the booze, bad for my diet!

To "down tools and walk" is english for work stoppage. To take your "pram and go home" means you are acting like a woman. Or you could say, to "throw all of your toys out of the pram," in which case you be acting like an upset baby.

That was the english lesson for the day!
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Ok. Sure buddy! I still think you are hanging out at the Kew Club! But to complete your English lesson, you could enlighten us on the use of present and past tense.
 
Mamma said:
Ok. Sure buddy! I still think you are hanging out at the Kew Club! But to complete your English lesson, you could enlighten us on the use of present and past tense.
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Mamma, sorry for the thread drift, but why does Tanker Clown have a web-site linked to info with your pics? What am I missing?
 
Dizel8 said:
Nah, stay off the booze, bad for my diet!

To "down tools and walk" is english for work stoppage. To take your "pram and go home" means you are acting like a woman. Or you could say, to "throw all of your toys out of the pram," in which case you be acting like an upset baby.

That was the english lesson for the day!
Click to expand...
It would help if you explained what a Pram was.

It comes from the old English word "perambulator", meaning (obviously) "a rolling pram", which is an old-fashioned way of saying a "baby buggy".

An upset mother will "take her pram (with baby in it) and go home".

Down tools and walk is also an old English phrase, still used in England when talking about organised labour going on a wildcat strike.

p.s. I think he's been drinking, too. ;)
 
Unfortunately, 135$ oil will bury the likes of F9, Airtran and Jetblue. AMR, UAL and CAL will also be on the hotseat, but it com,es down to what the Gov. wants to do in terms of preserving a national airline. Not all will make it, and those that do will be relegated to Regualted Industry like it or not. Who has has a business plan for $130 oil?

God help this industry, I am glad I'm watching from the sidelines!
 
Lear70 said:
It would help if you explained what a Pram was. ;)
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You know, you are right, I should have. I should have said: "Ma'm, why don't you take your perambulator and go home." But somehow, it just doesn't have the same ring to it.
 
For all the chest thumpers out there: How many significant gains in contracts were made during crisis economic conditions? For all the talk about strikes and showing strength, when have these been effective in squeezing anything significant out of a bleeding airline? During good times, absolutely. But this is an industry whose good times are an aberration to the usual bad times.

Sorry to break it to ya, but this industry is going down the drain and all the hooting an hollering from pilots isn't going to change things. When this industry figures out how to make money, then we'll go grab some of it for ourselves.
 
Bringupthebird said:
For all the chest thumpers out there: How many significant gains in contracts were made during crisis economic conditions? For all the talk about strikes and showing strength, when have these been effective in squeezing anything significant out of a bleeding airline? During good times, absolutely. But this is an industry whose good times are an aberration to the usual bad times.

Sorry to break it to ya, but this industry is going down the drain and all the hooting an hollering from pilots isn't going to change things. When this industry figures out how to make money, then we'll go grab some of it for ourselves.
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Management seems to have no problem grabbing any of the money for themselves. If we acted like them, we would be giving ourselves bonuses everytime we completed a successful landing while stealing money from the other employees.
 
magrs said:
Unfortunately, 135$ oil will bury the likes of F9, Airtran and Jetblue.
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Keep dreaming. F9 seems to be in some trouble right now, but AirTran and JetBlue are doing just fine. UAL and AMR will be long gone before either of the aforementioned LCCs are gone.
 
PCL_128 said:
Keep dreaming. F9 seems to be in some trouble right now, but AirTran and JetBlue are doing just fine. UAL and AMR will be long gone before either of the aforementioned LCCs are gone.
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Ha, Ha,

You wish... You should look a little deeper into the financials of AMR. More than what is published in the USA today.

No, AMR will not be the first to go. So maybe I should tell you to keep dreaming.

AAflyer
 
magrs said:
Unfortunately, 135$ oil will bury the likes of F9, Airtran and Jetblue. AMR, UAL and CAL will also be on the hotseat, but it com,es down to what the Gov. wants to do in terms of preserving a national airline. Not all will make it, and those that do will be relegated to Regualted Industry like it or not. Who has has a business plan for $130 oil?

God help this industry, I am glad I'm watching from the sidelines!
Click to expand...
Ummm... yeah.

Might want to go check out those jetBlue numbers again... A LOT of money in the bank (comparably-speaking to their overhead costs) and has one of the better financial performances of the other carriers this year.

You may WANT those carriers to fail, but I don't see JB or AAI going anywhere anytime soon. The spike in oil is just a spike... it's going back to around $100-110 by this time next year. Just have to batten down the hatches and hang on - it's a game of attrition at this point.
 

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