Hey USAPA, Why So Quiet?

[Fly-n-hi]

No I think he ment aplles with his apples. Its THE SAME THING! you can throw fed ex and swapa in there too. Having worked for an ALPO airline before I can't for the life of me figure out why everyone is so in love with them.

No. He meant apples with oranges. Were SWAPA or APA created by a majority with the sole purpose of screwing over the minority?

USAPA wasn't created because ALPA is terrible. USAPA was created because ALPA would not support the East efforts to screw the West.

Most of us aren't in love with ALPA. But you're a total nut if you think USAPA is a better alternative.

 

[FR8mastr]

Now if they had be HONORABLE they would have see that more than double of their pilots would be out west and less than 200 west folk live out east.

Karma is a mutha and this will come back to haunt mark my words on that!!

WD.

If this was the case as you claim, why on earth is the West so upset about the "300" upgrades? You didnt want them anyway right?

 

[Golden Falcon]

It's obvious why so quiet...they are full of shinola...and the folks who voted for them out of spite, have just bought a big giant stapler that will be used to affix themselves to the bottom of the NEXT seniority list...if i were Dougie, I'd flog the whole east ops on to another unsuspecting merger-happy sucker

 

[Fly-n-hi]

If this was the case as you claim, why on earth is the West so upset about the "300" upgrades? You didnt want them anyway right?

It's not the upgrades themselves that upset us. It's the East's pathetic attitude that upsets us. The East gets 300 upgrades and we get stagnation...then you have the nerve to call us greedy. Those 300 upgrades wouldn't even have existed if it weren't for AWA buying and thus saving you. When are you gonna realize that?

You guys want fences? Fine, put up fences. But the seniority list stands. Then when the fences come down I'll skip reserve and go straight to line holder CA.

 

[ultrarunner]

I'm wondering how long untill it sinks in that the arbitration can't be changed.

I talked to a few U guys, and the big picture for the rational folks was that it wasn't an attempt to get the Nic aware changed, as it was to do "something" to get rid of the union they hated so much.

However, the folks I talked to did concede that it was their own MEC that f**** for the last couple of decades.

 

[TWA Dude]

So let me get this straight. A group of people with the same common interests organized successfully to have the leverage to get what they feel is in their best interests and DID so. And yet they somehow are "anti-union".

I doubt you can be set straight but I'll try. ALPA Merger Policy prevents one pilot group from taking advantage of another. By voting in a new union for the sole purpose of utilizing their greater size they are trying to take advantage of us in the worst way. If that's your version of unionism you should hang out with some Longshoremen and try to learn something.

 

[BeCareful!]

Basically, I think it boils down to this:

Many of the east FOs were captains at one point. In their minds nothing will be fair until they are back in the left seat. They believe that they are still captains on temporary displacement to FO. They want the seniority integration to reflect their positions as they were in the 1990s.

They don't care how they get back to the left seat as long as they do it...even if it means screwing over the West guys. The fact that they were going out of business means nothing to them. They think they are the center of the universe and damn anyone who disagrees.

They make statements like "I've sacrificed for this company for 20 years now and I deserve something!". You did get something in return...you still have a job. My favorite was "we've been getting screwed for so long now its your turn!".

They think that it is selfish and greedy of me to expect them to live up to a completely fair integration because it may keep them from getting back to the left seat as quickly as they feel they deserve.

Does this pretty much sum it up?

No, not at all. Your characterization of east pilots doesn't coincide with my experience at all. (You harp on and on about the "left seat." Most of the guys I know here couldn't care less what seat they are in.) There is a completely different view of all this, and your little window of "reality" is filtered by your life experience. You and your fellow west keyboard commandos here on FI.com are vastly out of touch; you make such grandiose assumptions and spew such tough talk....but that doesn't make your reality any more real.

I know you think you've been terribly wronged, but the attitude you guys display here is sooo offensive. And yeah, I know, you'll all probably have some really cool retort concerning our attitude, but it makes no difference. We all have lives to live, bills to pay, job security concerns.

And reference job security, the story of USAir's demise has been told so many times, for so many years, by so many entities that got it all wrong, there is simply no basis for saying that you guys belong on top because you "saved" USAir. Look at the loss DAL just posted. Does that ring true for anyone? Did they really "lose" $6billion? No, they are showing it as a loss in the company's market value. It's accounting, and it's like statistics in that you can make it look any number of ways....whatever suits the need of the BOD. Do you guys really think that GE, after investing so much and working so hard to keep U afloat, was going to let it go? No way! Lakefield and Bronner and yes, Parker, joined the companies with outside capital. Had it not been AWA, it would have been some other airline. Alaska and Frontier perhaps. Who knows? The point is, we could all be a lot better off because of this combo.

Now, and this is something that I just know won't go over well with you all-knowing, AWA-FI.com-card-carrying pontificators....but....here go's: Many independent unions have done pretty well with their airline managements. Regardless of why you think ALPA is gone, regardless of how that came to be, I wish five of you would wake up and realize that if we start working together, now, we can negotiate with management and each other and come up with a solution to all of this.

As soon as you stop blowing beer out your nose (laughing), consider contacting USAPA reference their request for west Reps (not the cushy job it was with ALPA, but a worthy cause.) Consider that the vast majority of us in the east wish you guys no ill-will....nothing like venom you guys post here on FI.com. Our fight was with ALPA, and it's over. ALPA may not have caused you guys the grief it caused us over the years (although you did try to oust them, right?), but they simply had to go. Their behavior over the past several months only solidified that view for so many pilots, even guys at NWA, UAL, DAL. I can't count the number of pilots from other airlines who were horrified at ALPA's save-our-FPL-and-dues-revenue campaign and the accompanying lies and misinformation.

Anyway: What's done is done. What we all do from here on is what's important.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I talked to a few U guys, and the big picture for the rational folks was that it wasn't an attempt to get the Nic aware changed, as it was to do "something" to get rid of the union they hated so much.

However, the folks I talked to did concede that it was their own MEC that f**** for the last couple of decades.

Hate is not a logical methodology to find a mutual and progressive win win for all involved.

Hate is for the weak and emotionally ignorant.

Combined with conceding that thier own MEC was thier problem.

Who is responsible for their own MEC? ALPA National? GWB? Cactus pilots? Doug?

How'd the AAA MEC get into power and remain there? MIL coup? Illegal force?

 

[BeCareful!]

OK, right....yeah, I figured that sort of lame little west reply was forthcoming.

So, would you like to reference where USAPA has mentioned or even implied using a stapler? Or, conversely, do you want to hide behind stupid, meaningless statements like "USAPAs goal is crystal clear to everybody."??

 

[PositiveRate]

Anyway: What's done is done. What we all do from here on is what's important.

That was some funny stuff. Kind of like binding means binding right? You've fallen hook, line and sinker for your own BS. To ask us to move on is just about the most hypocritical thing you can do...it really is your way or the highway out East isn't it?

If alpa simply had to go as you put it, then it's time to sleep in the G damned bed you made for yourself.

To expect ANY america west guys to help out your cause which was founded on sticking it to us with DOH is hillarious. There isn't any moving on and if you want to look for blame, look in the mirror buddy.

2723 of your pilots made a huge mistake. They voted for change for change's sake without a backup plan.