Usapa Vote

[JoeMerchant]

not too convincing fellas

......neither side is that convincing.....kinda like our choices for President....pick your poison.....

 

[Turtle21]

......neither side is that convincing.....kinda like our choices for President....pick your poison.....

John Prater promised the "Full resources of ALPA" would be brought to bare with the Rice committee to solve the seniority issue. But I have NEVER seen ALPA expend its resources like they have in their attempt to manipulate a vote for them in this election.

The fear and misinformation machine of ALPA has been steaming at 105% RPM for months and it shows us exactly what ALPA is able to do, and more importantly it contrasts what ALPA leaders and their lackeys are willing to do or say for a buck and what they won't do toward their representational responsibilities.

 

[BeCareful!]

Hey man, if I had a $9600/month housing allowance, I'd get real concerned too!

 

[BeCareful!]

I find it ironic that these guys rolled the dice once with binding arbitration, didn't get what they wanted and now want the dice back. If I could do this in Vegas I would have millions. I am a strong believer that a man is only as good as his word. Sounds like they've got some great folks over there.

Perhaps this is too complicated for you, but the idiots you are complaining about are the ones we are ousting. You're right: ALPA East in this case is a group of people we no longer trust. They suck; you know it and everyone else knows it. Hence, the election!

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

more hyberbole and emotion.....

 

[BoilerUP]

Perhaps this is too complicated for you, but the idiots you are complaining about are the ones we are ousting. You're right: ALPA East in this case is a group of people we no longer trust. They suck; you know it and everyone else knows it. Hence, the election!

So....instead of simply recalling your entire ALPA East MEC and LEC leadership you're voting to get rid of ALPA representation altogether? Simply because you don't trust your current leadership?

Cut off the nose to spite the face much?

 

[flygirlqt]

not too convincing fellas

As if 5,195 of your posts are?

 

[BeCareful!]

Ahh, but you see, this is what people who support USAPA do best.

Right, and what is it that ALPA does best? Judging from the 57 pieces of unsolicited mail in my recycle bin, what they do best is come to their own rescue when threatened with the loss of our dues money. I've never seen this much effort expended to help a pilot group who is in serious peril, but when their six digit salaries and 9600/month housing allowances seem threatened, holy crap do they spring into action.

ALPA isn't perfect, but it provides much protection, vast resources and the only path towards unity this pilot group has. It's the only viable choice.

Man, we hear this a lot, and NOTHING could be further from the truth. While you and your FI.com team are steadfast in your mantra that there will be a civil war with USAPA, one has to wonder: what do we have right now? If this ain't a civil war, I don't know what is. ALPA East says "Separate Operations Forever." National says "We Must Defend The Award." West says: "When Do I Fly The A330?"

Any thinking person can figure out that this isn't going to work. Separate Ops....riiight. Yeah, ALPA, we all believe that.

USAPA is a seniority grab attempt that will fail...in fact, it's probably going to fail in 2 weeks, but on the outside chance they're voted in, it will fail in the courts.

And that's your guess. Mine's different, So what? And a "seniority grab?" Only in your imaginary world where the Nic is actually in effect. A Federal Judge just ruled that Nicolau used a bogus list. ALPA F'ed itself with the MDA shell game. Stay tuned

In the meantime, the only thing those goons can come up with is letters of interest for insurance, an insurance company and a line pilot to replace aeromedical and the list goes on and on. How's the credit line from the bank coming? Still 'shopping' your business around?

What a spin. You should apply to Fox News, or maybe Rush Limbaugh needs a writer. That line pilot has been doing ALPA's aeromedical forever here at US Airways. That situation is handled, as are all the others. I know of only one pilot who payed for extra insurance from ALPA, and when she really needed it she got absolutely screwed on a technicality. I know how she's voting!

You all know that USAPA thinks it will negotiate a joint contract with a 1 man team (a continental guy) with virtually no experience? That will be the second time they get laughed out of headquarters...the first being when then try to present a new list to Doug.

No, I don't know this. I'm not aware that the selection has been made, but since you know why don't you share the real information with everyone.

For those of you like BeCareful who don't think it could be any worse than ALPA - you may get to see how painfully wrong you are.

Ah, yes, the familiar Fear Statement. We are becoming desensitized to that, what with 4 to 5 expensive-looking ALPA mailings a day arriving. Good use of adjectives, though. Right, not just "wrong," but "painfully wrong." Good. Hey, you should apply to write some stuff for ALPA. Probably pays better than flying the line!

Hopefully common sense will prevail and the collective majority will save these guys from themselves.

Common sense, common thinking, common knowledge, blah, blah, blah....

Judging from the support we are receiving from pilots all over the industry who are utterly fed up with ALPA, I think common sense is going to prevail. Common sense says that any union who needs to spend untold millions mailing junk to its members to convince them not to leave while offering nothing of substance to correct the screw-ups that caused the election probably needs to step aside. Common sense says that if other pilot groups do well with independent unions, then so can we. Common sense says that an organization that pays $263,000/yr for a "recruiter," $85,000/yr to "administrative assistants," and gives $9600/month housing allowances to its National officers, is probably going to fight pretty hard to maintain its status quo. ALPA has been riding on the laurels of its past for too long. It senses the end coming, since NWA, UAL, CAL, DAL have all started expressing the same discontent. Now it's time to put up or shut up and all they can do is print up thousands of mindless, color, glossy mailings and get other MEC's to chime in on the Fear Campaign.

14 days

 

[Tejas-Jet]

So....instead of simply recalling your entire ALPA East MEC and LEC leadership you're voting to get rid of ALPA representation altogether? Simply because you don't trust your current leadership?

Cut off the nose to spite the face much?

Nahhhh...I have a feeling that if they tried to recall the entire MEC....Prater would put them under trusteeship...as he already did with one of their LEC's...so they wouldn't vote out the MEC Chairman.

BTW....did that "Recall Prater" thing ever catch fire? I remember it was pretty hot and heavy back in Decmeber.

 

[PositiveRate]

BeCareful,

You're full of crap - plain and simple.

ALPA F'ed itself with the MDA shell game. Stay tuned

I bet you read USAPA's pile of lies regarding this issue and bought that hook, line and sinker too.

Completely replacing a union, with an organization that will offer less protection and do more to divide this group is more East fantasy. Reality will be a slap in the face once again. You guys are unbelievable...

Here's a little more on that MDA issue.

Truth About the MDA Decision
By:
US Airways MEC Communications Committee
ALPA Legal Department
Last week the U.S. District judge in New York dismissed the MDA lawsuit that was
filed in 2005 over the terms and conditions of employment of the MDA pilots. The
lawsuit contained several claims; the Court dismissed most of them because they were
time barred—that is, the statute of limitations had run out before their lawyer filed the
complaint. The Court dismissed several other claims on the merits.
The judge also allowed the plaintiffs to file a new supplemental complaint to make a
new duty of fair representation claim. The gist of this new claim is that the seniority list
submitted to Nicolau by the US Airways MEC Merger Committee was erroneous
because the MDA pilots should not have been designated as furloughed, and therefore
the Award should be overturned and damages awarded.
The response from the plaintiffs and USAPA supporters to the Court’s ruling is
amazing in its total disregard for the truth, as were the false rumors from vocal USAPA
supporters who said that ALPA had made a substantial settlement offer in that case.
They are now saying that the judge has found that ALPA violated its duty of fair
representation, opening the door to a multimillion-dollar recovery against ALPA. This
is false! The judge made NO such finding.
The judge ruled on two different aspects of the case. Concerning the MDA pilots’ claims
about their terms and conditions of employment, she dismissed those claims without
finding that they were true allegations. In her ruling, she did what the law requires her
to do at this state of the case: she assumed for the purposes of ALPA’s motion to
dismiss that the allegations are true and then decided whether such allegations should
stay in court. She said NO. Even if they were true (which she did not decide), they must
be (and were) dismissed.
The second aspect of the case was the request to file a complaint concerning the
seniority list submitted to Nicolau. The judge said that at this stage of the proceedings,
before discovery, when doubts have to be resolved in favor of the plaintiffs, she would
[FONT=Arial,Bold]Reality[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Bold]Check[/FONT]
permit the complaint to be filed and discovery on this issue to go forward. And that is
all she did. She made NO factual findings regarding ALPA’s conduct except that the
plaintiffs would have a chance to make a case.
These USAPA supporters are ignoring the fundamental difference between filing a
lawsuit and winning a lawsuit (like the difference between organizing a union and
running one). They have been allowed to file a lawsuit—and that’s all. They will have
an extremely steep hill to climb to prove anything unlawful about the conduct of ALPA
or the US Airways MEC Merger Committee.
As we have pointed out, the MDA plaintiffs’ claims about an allegedly “erroneous”
seniority list are just not supported by the facts. ALPA lawyers are confident that after
some discovery and the submission of evidence to the judge, this case will be dismissed
on summary judgment. Those who are talking about a substantial monetary recovery
against ALPA are deluding themselves and not telling the truth to their fellow pilots.
Their statements are more examples of a pattern of communications about this case and
other matters that is either totally dishonest, totally ignorant—or both.
You deserve the truth and should demand it from those who profess to be concerned
about your career and your future.​

 

[BeCareful!]

I bet you read USAPA's pile of lies regarding this issue and bought that hook, line and sinker too.

Nope....that's not where I got my information. Why is that relevant?


Truth and ALPA MEC Communications committee.....Now there's an unlikely pair.

PosRate.....you're in for a few surprises. Not unpleasant ones, like the ones you wish on all of us, but surprises nonetheless.

14 days

 

[Prog 2/2]

AA Federal Judge just ruled that Nicolau used a bogus list.

Really?

You might try reading the actual docket, there, sparky.

But then you'd have to emerge from that alternate reality you're so fond of, and we know how uncomfortable that is for you USAPA'ns.

 

[get2flyin]

PosRate.....you're in for a few surprises. Not unpleasant ones, like the ones you wish on all of us, but surprises nonetheless.

14 days

Unpleasant surprises? Like not being unemployed? Like not being stapled to the bottom of a list, ala TWA? Were those the unpleasant surprises that the "merger" and ALPA heaped on you?

The Westies, and the rest of the airline industry, know what USAPA is after. You want what isn't yours. When you played by the rules and didn't get it, you started your little game of trying to re-writing the rules.

I realize telling you this is like telling a spoiled 4 year old he can't have candy at the checkout line. You just hope if your mommy won't give you everything, maybe she'll just give you one or two things to shut you up and you still come out ahead. Bad news: I don't think anyone is planning on giving into your tantrum. But hey, good luck with that approach.

 

[Turtle21]

Nahhhh...I have a feeling that if they tried to recall the entire MEC....Prater would put them under trusteeship...

Nah.. he would just support the ALPA lackeys that refuse to receive registered mail so they can pretend they have not received a request to put recall on the agenda at the LEC meetings, just like he is doing for the CLT reps who pretend to represent the pilots.

CLT has had three informational meetings that looked a lot like LEC meetings (and all the bigwhigs flew in from out of town) but they are denying the pilots the right to have a recall vote.

Frankly ALPA's real colors are coming through loud and clear. Pilots get no voice and will pay for the smart guys to make the decisions without their input especially when the largesse is in danger. Makes the choice obvious, unless of course you are in the running for one of those such jobs at the mahogany table.

 

[trainer8]

BeCareful,

You're full of crap - plain and simple.



I bet you read USAPA's pile of lies regarding this issue and bought that hook, line and sinker too.

Completely replacing a union, with an organization that will offer less protection and do more to divide this group is more East fantasy. Reality will be a slap in the face once again. You guys are unbelievable...

Here's a little more on that MDA issue.

"Last week the U.S. District judge in New York dismissed the MDA lawsuit that was filed in 2005 over the terms and conditions of employment of the MDA pilots. The lawsuit contained several claims; the Court dismissed most of them because they were time barred..."

Wait a minute. The first sentence says the suit was dismissed. The second sentence says it dismissed "most of the claims." Which is it?


—ALPA argued that the case didn't have merit based on the SoL, ironically, not on whether or not they failed in DFR! Think about the moral and ethical outcome of that! The judge dutifully ruled the 6 complaints had merit but they legally fell outside the SoL's time lines. Score for ALPA...kinda...because of the SoL.

But, don't miss what she did say: She also allowed the ammended complaint over the Seniority List used in the Nic Arbitration because in her words: "The alleged breach is not about the process or terms of the arbitration award . . . but that the union knew of, and stipulated to, the introduction of an erroneous, previously-corrected seniority list during the arbitration proceedings. To this allegation, defendants have not offered any reason to deny plaintiffs leave...."

That is significant. She get's it. She understands the plaintiff's perspective.

Also,

"...plaintiff have adequately alleged that their injuries were caused by the defendants' knowing stipulation to introduce an erroneous seniority list that they knew would adversely affect the careers and employment rights of their represented members. Plaintiffs' motion for leave to file a supplemental complaint is therefore granted."

Simply put, she tossed out the 6 complaints over the SoL technicality and is allowing the case to be ammended and proceed to trial based on the merits of the plantiff's supplemental arguments. ALPA says that is not a "ruling" by the Judge. While she may not have "ruled" the ALPA failed in DFR, she certainly has ruled the plaintiff's arguments have merit and deserve to be heard. That is also significant. The case moves on as an ammended supplementary case. Had ALPA won it's motion to dismiss, this case would be dead in the water. They didn't. It's not. Discovery is underway.

One more item. ALPA has published that they have not offered a settlement figure to the MDA pilots. The publication of that topic is like Bill Clinton saying he didn't have sexual relations with a 24 year old intern in the Oval office. Because a legal team doesn't produce a piece of paper with a settlement offer, they have the "legal" liberty of saying no such claim ever existed. This is what thy have done. Fact is, the judge asked both parties to enter non-binding arbitrary settlement discussions where ALPA did make such an offer....not in written form, off the table, so to speak. Lawyers "deal" all the time. This is no different. It was grossly under sum and flatly rejected by the MDA attorney. And to finish a comparsion, Bubba got away with his tawdry cigar session in the Oval office, but, it doesn't take away from the damage it caused to his Presidency, his marriage, and his family. ALPA can wag its finger and say they "legally" didn't offer settlement, but for the rest of us non-legal peeps, we know the difference.

T8

 

[Fly-n-hi]

Man, we hear this a lot, and NOTHING could be further from the truth. While you and your FI.com team are steadfast in your mantra that there will be a civil war with USAPA, one has to wonder: what do we have right now? If this ain't a civil war, I don't know what is. ALPA East says "Separate Operations Forever." National says "We Must Defend The Award." West says: "When Do I Fly The A330?"

Trust me bro...the vast majority of West pilots don't give a &$#@ about your 9 A-330s. US Airways' international division isn't anything to get excited about. Go ahead and keep 'em.

Granted, we don't have any wide-bodies...but we weren't the ones going out of business, either.

 

[N1N2]

Mail

57 mailings to the East Pilot's in several weeks. 57 X .33 = 18.81 X 2500 pilot's = $47025.00. (conservative figures). This is your Dues money at work. ALPA is so great that thay have to prove it every day with a blitz of mail! I just received another three today. Guess that was another $2475 from the money tree in Herndon.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

57 mailings to the East Pilot's in several weeks. 57 X .33 = 18.81 X 2500 pilot's = $47025.00. (conservative figures). This is your Dues money at work. ALPA is so great that thay have to prove it every day with a blitz of mail! I just received another three today. Guess that was another $2475 from the money tree in Herndon.

All well and good except for one thing, ALPA gets to use what's known as "bulk rate" when doing mailings which as i'm sure you know is only a couple of cents as opposed to normal rate. I guess you are going to have to readjust your numbers there.

WD.

 

[hmmm]

What’s left of your USAir career is worth more than what ALPA did or didn't do for you in the past.

You don't owe ALPA anything.

ALPA was bought and paid for with your percentage of salary paid to them and u don't owe them anything.

What’s left of your USAir career is worth more to you by voting ALPA out now....

....than anything ALPA can do for you in the future.

Loyalty to ALPA is worthless after what they didn't do for you in seniority integration and letting management gut your retirement.

The only way to be able to put food on the table decently in retirement concurrent with what your seniority is supposed to be at USAir is to vote out ALPA now to at least get your seniority put back where it should be.

There is nothing that ALPA could ever do for you now that would equal voting ALPA out and subsequently getting your seniority back.

The self serving AWest pilots are not worth the paper their license used to be printed on that they didn't put the seniority proper on their own recognizance as men of morals and principle they are not, evidenced by their sitting there and accepting the ill gained spoils of war not due to them by their years in service based on Date of Hire.

 

[Crzipilot]

Hmmm...first class , bulk rate. 1oz. letter, biz mailing. 5 digit zip. machine processable. Cost .31-.35 Seems about right...HAHHA. At 3 oz. it goes up to about .50/per