How to Earn Respect as an Airline Pilot

[jenga]

Great post. I think following 1-6 could help us "take it back".

1. Wear your uniform proudly, even if you don't like your company. This includes the uniform hat if required.

When I am done for the day, in my hotel or home, I scramble to ditch the monkey suit, throw on some shorts, Tshirt, and slippers(flipflops). When working, I try to look professional. Some of you say that the public does not notice whether you look like a uniformed slob or not. I think they do more than we think. I pose the following questions: 1. when you see an out of shape, fat, sloppy-looking police officer in public, do you respect him/her more or less than the high and tight, spit and polished muscular version? 2. When you see an in-shape Marine in full dress (please forgive me if thats not the correct terminology) are you not a tiny bit awestruck? 3. If two different people approached you in public with a question would you react the same if one were wearing a suit and the other a Tshirt and baggy jeans?

Have I been guilty of not being professional in public before? Hell yeah. I just agree with Cal73 that we should just try harder.

P.S. go ahead with your closet-gay remarks, I'm not gay(Ok, 99% sure that I'm not) -- not that there's anything wrong with that.....

2. Don't talk badly about your company in the public, if you like to complain, do it in private!

Duhh.....

3. When people ask is your job easy respond with a "no" and inform them it takes years of training. Let them know you ARE responsible for their lives when they are on board your flight.

This one drives me F*&^in nuts! I HATE it when pilots say-"it's the easiest job in the world" or "I cant believe they pay me to do this". Don't minimalize our profession, ever, to your parents, your spouse, your friends, the public, etc. I was talking to my parents, one of which does not fly, about the GO! pilots falling asleep. Their sarcastic response was, "you pilots have such a hard job...." I think alot of people think like this. It pisses me off when people compare their careers to ours. There is mostly no comparison. It's just like that "letter" to mgmt. that some pilot wrote-if we just dial in one digit wrong w/out catching it-we could kill hundreds. How many people have that level of unforgiving circumstances thrown at them everyday on the job?

Have I ever minimalized my job? Hell yes. I/we just have to try harder.

4. Take a look at pictures from the 1970's of what airline pilots looked like. This is what we should be emulating.

How many of you wish you could fly today's equipment, with today's pay(whoops, never mind) in the 1950's, 60's, 70's? People dressed for their flights, good meal service was the norm, flying was a "special" event. Obviously, it probably wont ever get back to that, but what if we lead by example and try to appear a little sharper? I really feel that airlines should enact some sort of dress code. Maybe this is old school thinking, but it's a G**amn airplane! It's not a Greyhound, not a supershuttle, etc.

Again, am I guilty of looking like a slob outside of work? Hell yeah.

5. Don't sit at the gate and yawn in public. If you are tired stay in the crew room and rest until your flight.

6. Try not to become a fat slob. Stay in shape and
look the part of a professional!

Earn the respect of the pulblic and you will also earn the respect of management!

I hope slowly, over time, this will eventually work.

 

[HAL]

Earn the respect of the pulblic and you will also earn the respect of management!

Best post I've seen here in years. And you're absolutely right cal73cap. We have done it to ourselves over the years with not enough vision on the 'big picture'. My own family history in the airlines goes back to 1937, and I know what it means to earn the respect of your passengers and management. Seeing the young pilots of today walking around with the backpack slung over his shoulder, an i-pod plugged into his ear, and a big ketchup stain on his untucked shirt just makes me feel so disappointed. And for those defending that image of today's pilot as due to horrible pay and working conditions - stick a sock in it. Most of us have it MUCH BETTER than pilots did in the 40's, 50's, 60's, and 70's. Better wages, better working conditions, better equipment, and more job opportunities. I've seen this unfolding of history in person. Of course if you choose to pick one particular moment in history (i.e. UAL's or US's contracts in 1999) we aren't making quite as much right now. But overall, we are still at the high end of historical conditions in the industry. If you don't believe me, read some history. Back in those days of decades past, even in the tough conditions, pilots earned the public's respect by looking the part, and ACTING the part of a responsible employee. If you don't respect yourself or your career, it's d#mned certain your bosses or passengers won't either.

HAL

 

[cal73cap]

I am glad most folks agree with me. One poster mentioned that I should also make light of the "old fat slob Captains" and not just the First Officers that fit that category. He is absolutely right. The sight of the big ole Captain walking down the terminal with his Big Gulp in one hand and his Big Gut hanging over his belt is something to behold.

Make a vow to yourself to look Professional and if enough pilots do we will become more respected.

Also, when I interact with my airline's customers I always think about the excellant customer service I receive at Disneyworld and I think how would a Disney employee handle the passenger I am talking to. Sounds crazy, but it works!

And please, no cracks about Mickey Mouse!

 

[Spooky 2]

Got news for you. The biggest fat slobs I ever flew with were F/O's and they were fairly young at that. I guess most of them are the fat slob Capt's that your talking about now. Checking out as Capt. does not in and of it's self mean your fat, just older. Use to fly with a very capable F/O on the L1011. Doing the control check required that the F/O reach over and hold a button down so you could see the control movement. This guy was so fat he could not for the life of him, reach that far. Good stick and smart guy, just very fat!

I agree that the latest generation of airline pilots seems to have a higher percentage of misfits than in the past. Maybe it's just the HR departments desire to have the broadest selction of the human condition as possible. What is most amazing is that everyone of these slobs that you see walking around the terminals, probably was in his best dressed mode to get the job in the first place. Obviously just posers, not real airline pilots.

 

[spacecadet1]

Best post I've seen here in years. And you're absolutely right cal73cap. We have done it to ourselves over the years with not enough vision on the 'big picture'. My own family history in the airlines goes back to 1937, and I know what it means to earn the respect of your passengers and management. Seeing the young pilots of today walking around with the backpack slung over his shoulder, an i-pod plugged into his ear, and a big ketchup stain on his untucked shirt just makes me feel so disappointed. And for those defending that image of today's pilot as due to horrible pay and working conditions - stick a sock in it. Most of us have it MUCH BETTER than pilots did in the 40's, 50's, 60's, and 70's. Better wages, better working conditions, better equipment, and more job opportunities. I've seen this unfolding of history in person. Of course if you choose to pick one particular moment in history (i.e. UAL's or US's contracts in 1999) we aren't making quite as much right now. But overall, we are still at the high end of historical conditions in the industry. If you don't believe me, read some history. Back in those days of decades past, even in the tough conditions, pilots earned the public's respect by looking the part, and ACTING the part of a responsible employee. If you don't respect yourself or your career, it's d#mned certain your bosses or passengers won't either.

HAL

I have to disagree with you about pay and conditions better than before. In real dollars, this job has been in a continuous decline since deregulation. We still have to fight to restore this profession to what it once was.
When it really comes down to it, you have to be willing to lose everything in order to turn things around. But this is a totally separate issue from looking and acting professional in your job.
And I totally agree with that as most of us do.

 

[GFunk20]

Anyone who thinks we're better off now than back in the 70s is completely ignorant.

 

[lowlycfi]

This write-up needs to be given to all Mesa pilot classes.

I've seen pilots from just about EVERY COMPANY out there that should be given this post. Including yours.


Mazel cal73....great post from a fellow JAPA member. A mitzvah for you!

 

[RP170]

Great post and advice I live by. I believe in a #7 rule too.

7) You must correct those who are not living by these standards. Not tommorow or next week but on the spot correction.

If you see someone bitchin about the company, kindly take them aside and remind them whose name is printed on their paycheck.

If someone is not wearing the hat go to your union standards office and report them. If you see it twice, report them to your chief pilot.

If somebody is fat, invite them to the gym with you. If they say no, call it like it is, "Heh, you like Jabba lets go get on the treadmill". Just make sure nobody is around on this one, so it is your word against his/hers.

Take pride in yourself, your company and the public paying your rent!

Is this a serious post?

 

[Grandpa +65]

I blame all of this on themselves on how the industry is the way it is. One time it used to be a privledge to fly. Now every person along with their dogs and cats are flying and the airlines were like a bunch of whores who wanted it all.
They got what they deserve now.

 

[kman]

Don't yawn in public? Thats so stupid, Maybe the companys we work for should create schedules that prevent fatigue. Maybe its time to get the regs changed till we get more required rest than truck drivers.

 

[whatitdoing?]

CAL73cap, I got nothing bad to say about your posts other than to say that most FO's that I know are well dressed and up to par. I just flew with a captain that was picking ear wax out of his ears and flicking it around the cockpit. I looked at him and said that's pretty disgusting and his response was, "mind your own business and make that position report". A real pleasure. So it's on both fronts, not just FO's. Other than that, you're correct.

 

[trainer8]

If you like the orginal post... then consider the ALPA Code of Ethics..... The golden days are of the Ethics...

The ALPA pilots who adhere to the ALPA CoE are few and far between. Why don't you post them so we can debate them...No...that would be a thread hijack...Post a new thread.

The young men and women...mostly men...who I train each week won't wear their hat because it messes up their hair gel. I'm not joking. The young ladies mostly wear theirs. But, I have difficulty with a young woman in a masculine uniform complete with traditional tie.

T8

 

[PCL_128]

The ALPA pilots who adhere to the ALPA CoE are few and far between. Why don't you post them so we can debate them

Debate them? What's to debate? Is your ALPA hatred so severe that you can't even agree with a common sense set of ethics?

 

[trainer8]

Debate them? What's to debate? Is your ALPA hatred so severe that you can't even agree with a common sense set of ethics?

I think you misunderstand me. ALPA's CoE is excellant. I agree with them. But ALPA CoE adherence at ALPA, and by ALPA pilots (especially who post on this site) is minimal. It's good stuff, but nobody takes it seriously. Based on the vitriol I've seen on this board by ALPA pilots like yourself, I think my post is accurate. What a difference there would be if ALPA pilots adhered to their own CoE! Unfortunately, they "talk the talk," but don't "walk the walk."

Perhaps you would like me to search the site to find some of your posts and do a comparative with the ALPA CoE as it pertains to conduct of affairs with members of the profession?

Point is this. If you, as an ALPA member, really believed the ALPA CoE and followed them, I think your posts on this site would be quite different. Unfortunately, I think most ALPA pilots view them as propoganda.

But please....prove me wrong.

T8

 

[pilotyip]

Reality Check?

I think you misunderstand me. ALPA's CoE is excellant. I agree with them. But ALPA CoE adherence at ALPA, and by ALPA pilots (especially who post on this site) is minimal. It's good stuff, but nobody takes it seriously. Based on the vitriol I've seen on this board by ALPA pilots like yourself, I think my post is accurate. What a difference there would be if ALPA pilots adhered to their own CoE! Unfortunately, they "talk the talk," but don't "walk the walk."

Perhaps you would like me to search the site to find some of your posts and do a comparative with the ALPA CoE as it pertains to conduct of affairs with members of the profession?

Point is this. If you, as an ALPA member, really believed the ALPA CoE and followed them, I think your posts on this site would be quite different. Unfortunately, I think most ALPA pilots view them as propoganda.

But please....prove me wrong.

T8

Again reality keeps getting in way. Want to improve respect, say nice things and do not attack people who do not agree with you.

 

[PCL_128]

I think you misunderstand me. ALPA's CoE is excellant. I agree with them. But ALPA CoE adherence at ALPA, and by ALPA pilots (especially who post on this site) is minimal. It's good stuff, but nobody takes it seriously. Based on the vitriol I've seen on this board by ALPA pilots like yourself, I think my post is accurate. What a difference there would be if ALPA pilots adhered to their own CoE! Unfortunately, they "talk the talk," but don't "walk the walk."

Perhaps you would like me to search the site to find some of your posts and do a comparative with the ALPA CoE as it pertains to conduct of affairs with members of the profession?

Point is this. If you, as an ALPA member, really believed the ALPA CoE and followed them, I think your posts on this site would be quite different. Unfortunately, I think most ALPA pilots view them as propoganda.

But please....prove me wrong.


T8

Nothing in the code requires me to blow smoke up your ass to make you feel better. That seems to be what you'd like. "I don't give them hell. I just tell them the truth and they think it's hell."

 

[trainer8]

Again reality keeps getting in way. Want to improve respect, say nice things and do not attack people who do not agree with you.

BINGO

 

[trainer8]

Nothing in the code requires me to blow smoke up your ass to make you feel better. That seems to be what you'd like. "I don't give them hell. I just tell them the truth and they think it's hell."

Thank you. You've proved my point. You've demonstrated here and on other sites that the ALPA CoE is propaganda in your view. Nice to look at, but, when it comes to following, well, that's another story.

T8

 

[Future Furlough]

Seeing the young pilots of today walking around with ...a big ketchup stain on his untucked shirt just makes me feel so disappointed.
HAL

Yeah, I hate seeing the old saggy-ballers looking the same way. Be careful about pointing fingers at young pilots. There are plenty of old slobs out there.

 

[El Pobre]

I think that the original post was right. I fly boxes around and very rarely see passengers (unless I'm jumpseating or D/Hing...but...that being said, my shirt is ironed every night before I fly and my shoes have a nice shine to them...We do wear leather jackets, but when mine is on, it is zipped up about halfway not just flapping in the breeze.

The bottom line is that I do this because I have pride in myself and in my appearance.

It's not about what the travelling public thinks or ALPA's COE, it's about your own pride and professionalism.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Rez.....I had respect for you and your opinions up until now, now you are just like any other conservative azzhole that will sink to bashing one group to prove a point to another. It's 2008 and it's still ok to bash gay people or assume that male flight attendants are gay and just tripping over themselves to non-rev to SFO. I wonder what you secretly think about women or black pilots but never say outloud?

Have you read my post on the OBAP thread?

Since you called me out.... my intent is to concern pilots into looking like pilots instead of FAs... its that simple.... if they are shallow enough not to think about the real reasons to wear the uniform then maybe they are shallow enough to be homophobes...


Capiche?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Not sure that I agree with this. Respect from management in what way?

When it is time for your trip to be over and management says you will another trip and your wife expects you home.... do you want to call your wife and say I am on the way home or I have to work.

There is a difference between being a professional and being some tool box managements biotch...

Real Pilots defend the profession...

If the public believes you have value then that translates into effectivesness...

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I think you misunderstand me. ALPA's CoE is excellant. I agree with them. But ALPA CoE adherence at ALPA, and by ALPA pilots (especially who post on this site) is minimal. It's good stuff, but nobody takes it seriously.

Simply put.... professionalism is a choice of free will. If you were to legislate it... the COE would not be ethical... it would be law. The FARs perhaps...??

It is similiar to democracy itself... if voting were mandated then it wouldn't be a free election...

Freedom, ethics and professionalism require responisbility and choice... Unfortunately... one of the choices is choosing not to choose...

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Based on the vitriol I've seen on this board by ALPA pilots like yourself, I think my post is accurate. What a difference there would be if ALPA pilots adhered to their own CoE! Unfortunately, they "talk the talk," but don't "walk the walk."

Politics amongts pilots and the Code of Ethics when flying the line are different...

For what your interpretation of the COE should be when conducting the politics of the profession and what mine are could be very different...

For example... what canon do you think PCL has violated by posting his vitriol?

Perhaps you would like me to search the site to find some of your posts and do a comparative with the ALPA CoE as it pertains to conduct of affairs with members of the profession?

Yes... I would... if you please...

Point is this. If you, as an ALPA member, really believed the ALPA CoE and followed them, I think your posts on this site would be quite different. Unfortunately, I think most ALPA pilots view them as propoganda.

But please....prove me wrong.

T8

Actually you have posed the question so I'll put the burden of proof on you....

 

[instructordude]

Is this a serious post?

Yes it is.

 

[ableone]

This is one of the better threads. Obviously there is interest in the topic.

There is a reason that people who live and work in the real world pay close attention to what they wear.

Look at how your first and business class road warriors dress. They look sharp and you can easily picture them in a board room. They also carry attache cases that do not have "SURF NAKED" stickers affixed.

Contrast this to the average pilot. Short-sleeve shirt, tie and a flightbag covered with, dumb ass, aviation and band stickers. If you are out of high school you shouldn't have stickers on your gear. It makes us all look like idiots.

Unless you are the manager of your local Dairy Queen you should never wear a short sleeve shirt with a tie. Pick up a copy of "Dress for Success." If you don't believe it try to find a suit who takes off his jacket to reveal short sleeves.

Ask yourself if you would be comfortable attending a meeting wearing your daily uniform. If you think you might be the most under-dressed in the room, there might be a problem with your uniform.

When we need to start flying approaches with the DV windows open, maybe the leather jacket, helmet, goggles and scarf will be appropriate.

Ask your fifteen year old what you look like in your bomber jacket. It looked good on a 23 year old, 8th Air force pilot. It makes the average line pilot look like he is on his way to a Fonzie convention.

If you think people don't notice that you look like crap, think again.

BTW Lanyards of any kind are very lame. Weather you are an ALPA, USAPA, AOPA, or DELL supporter, leave the freaking lanyard where it belongs - your mailbox.

 

[AV80R]

Fortunately those guys wear their hats...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=cW5xqL6z70E

 

[airborn]

I think that the original post was right. I fly boxes around and very rarely see passengers (unless I'm jumpseating or D/Hing...but...that being said, my shirt is ironed every night before I fly and my shoes have a nice shine to them...We do wear leather jackets, but when mine is on, it is zipped up about halfway not just flapping in the breeze.

The bottom line is that I do this because I have pride in myself and in my appearance.

It's not about what the travelling public thinks or ALPA's COE, it's about your own pride and professionalism.

Great post. I'll add "discipline" to the list.

I have never been more impressed than to jumpseat through a cargo hub (ASTAR/DHL) in the middle of the night and see crisp,white & pressed shirts at 3 a.m.

If you are not disciplined enough to take care of the shoes, pants and shirts, how do you think that carries over to discipline in the cockpit?

The M.O. to our profession is discipline. It is a long road to "make" it in our business. Many monotonous takeoffs and landings, position reports, preflights, etc. It can breed apathy & sloppiness.

What counteracts this?

Yup, discipline, which in effect is a quality of professionalism.



Thanks for reading.

 

[PurpleInMEM]

Freedom, ethics and professionalism require responisbility and choice... Unfortunately... one of the choices is choosing not to choose...

Thank God for that 'unfortunality' Rez...

Of course I'm assuming you subscribe to the mantra "Conform or be cast out..."

Room for everyone I suspect, plus it's just a job.

 

[trainer8]

Politics amongts pilots and the Code of Ethics when flying the line are different...

For what your interpretation of the COE should be when conducting the politics of the profession and what mine are could be very different...

For example... what canon do you think PCL has violated by posting his vitriol?



Yes... I would... if you please...



Actually you have posed the question so I'll put the burden of proof on you....

Easily done...

The overwelming display of a condescending attitude toward individuals whom disagree with you...which purveys the many posts, is an indication of your/PCL's professionalism...or perhaps, the lack of it.

As for a personal "canon" I'll stick with "do unto others as you would have them do to you." If you stick with that "canon," you won't go wrong.

On this site, we often cut off our fellow aviatior's nose...then ask him to smell a rose. It doesn't work.

T8