AirTran cancelling classes

[Lear70]

Lear question for you, The cappy I flew with last week brought this up. She says someone on the negotiating committee told her because we were in mediated talks, and our board recommended TA2, that would be the new starting point of negotiations. TA2 that is, even though we shot it down. Something they learned at their ALPA training sessions. Is this even remotely true? Hoping no but.....

True, and untrue at the same time.

From a technical standpoint, to my understanding, the answer is "No", simply because 3 of the BoD members has been flushed, meaning that vote no longer restricts us as a majority now weren't even in office to have voted for it.

That said, negotiations are going to be tough, because Tossi (the arbitrator) won't be happy to see a huge re-start throwing away most of what was done in T.A. 2. He will certainly want to start with T.A. 2 and will tell both sides they need to work to solve the inequities to get to a workable document that will be ratified.

He won't like hearing that the inequities encompass almost the entire document. Section 1 is a non-starter with the changes in Scope and lack of successorship language for fragmentation.

Compensation needs to come up nearly 10% across the board just to come *CLOSE* to industry standard and that just matches BANKRUPTCY rates, not anything pre-9/11.

Scheduling needs a complete re-write of the reserve section, starting with our current reserve system, adding transparency to the process, and putting limits on SAP I, II and daily trades that are REASONABLE.

Hotels is completely unacceptable, given what everyone has been working under in terms of declining quality (as in, Oh My God they're nasty).

Not to mention retirement and insurance...

Tossi isn't going to be happy to hear that and will likely push pretty hard in all likelihood to avoid sweeping changes.

Fortunately, for us, the BoD doesn't have to agree to anything they don't want to. Unfortunately, for us, Tossi can decide we are being "unrealistic" and elect NOT to give us a cooling off period or release into self-help which, let's face it, is our only weapon.

The hardest job the NC has is to convince Tossi that current book plus COLA is THE starting point moving forward. NOT T.A. 2 which was REJECTED soundly. If they can get past that in a timely fashion, we might see some progress. If not, this will likely stall out for a long time to come.

Fortunately, with the downturn in the economy and the resulting downturn in hiring and movement in the list, those on reserve don't get hosed with T.A. 2's draconian reserve rules while we wait for something better.

Lear, you getting back here soon?

Not really, No.

Another 3-5 months just to get the case to arbitration, THEN up to a year or more to get the arbitrator's decision, and then, IF the arbitrator rules in my favor (which I believe he will), the company can still appeal it and put it off several more months before being forced into it.

Basically I'm out a minimum of another year to two years... GOT to find something with more time off - I'm missing my son's toddler years, and NO amount of money can replace that.

 

[maxblast72]

You've got to be kidding me. Bragging about your 13k a month. Hell when I was a first officer in 2002 I made that. You LCC drivers forget it always comes down to the lowest common denominator. Let me ask you this what were AAI pilots making in 1996?? You'll never understand. By the way...the hotels you stay at over there are plain awful and disgracreful. And yet you put up with it. You have no contract it's been expired for over 3 years. To say UAL or any other legacy brought down the industry is criminal...just stare at the mirror and you'll find who the criminal is.

Not bragging about about $13K a month, just doing a March 2008 analysis about earnings potential by Airtran senior Captains and Legacy First Officers. Just don't see the logic in the current business environment about jumping ship with that much seniority.

Would I like to work for United, American, or Delta with their late 1990's contracts? Sure, but those airlines weren't managed well enough to snuff out the LCC's. Delta had their shot in the late 1990's to take Airtran out and blew it. American is the only airline that was decently managed and really protected their home turf (DFW particularly). Delta's management could definitely take a training course from American's management (not that American doesn't have their own set of problems today).

For now, I don't see any benefit about leaving Airtran. But if senior guys want to chase their dreams, I wish them the best and hope they are happy with their decision down the road.

 

[j41driver]

Sh@t, what the hell was he thinking??

I heard he commuted from France. I would guess it would be much easier as an online commute. Moot point if you get furloughed though.

 

[j41driver]

Oops...double post.

 

[GuppyWN]

You've got to be kidding me. Bragging about your 13k a month. Hell when I was a first officer in 2002 I made that. You LCC drivers forget it always comes down to the lowest common denominator. Let me ask you this what were AAI pilots making in 1996?? You'll never understand. By the way...the hotels you stay at over there are plain awful and disgracreful. And yet you put up with it. You have no contract it's been expired for over 3 years. To say UAL or any other legacy brought down the industry is criminal...just stare at the mirror and you'll find who the criminal is.

Let's see. $92/hr(UAL 757 FO) times 90 hrs. = less than 13k. Let's try again. $92/hr times 100 hrs. = less than 13k.
Still screwing it up. Last try. $127/hr (737 CPT) times 90 hrs. = less than 13k. Dang it. I give up.

What am I missing?

BTW. How's the poor guy that got the crap beat out of him at one of your "fine" United hotels doing?

Who gives a load what AAI pilots were making in 1996? What matters is right now. If you want to know who took it up the arse and took the profession down a notch then by all means.........."stare in the mirror and you'll find who the criminal is."

Ciao,
Gup

 

[Ualexpress]

I heard he commuted from France. I would guess it would be much easier as an online commute. Moot point if you get furloughed though.

He did not commute from France. Lived in Austin, TX last I heard.

 

[AV80R]

I don't think corageous is exactly the right choice of words..... French and corageous....... pleez !

I have no opinion on the French guy leaving AT (I'm biased on this one ) but I agree with you ...

... French and courageous in the same sentence does sound funny... :laugh:

Btw - it wasn't the French instructor who also worked part time as a cop was it?

 

[Ualexpress]

Btw - it wasn't the French instructor who also worked part time as a cop was it?

No it wasn't.

 

[FlyWolf]

Maybe he commuted from Paris, Texas.

 

[DrunkIrishman]

If this pilot was hired 10 years ago, then he got the job when few others had AirTran as their top choice.

Maybe he always wanted to fly for Delta...maybe he wanted the opportunity to fly long haul...maybe he was tired of flying regional trips.

Sometimes there is more to this job than just money. I have found the most miserable ba$tards are the ones who always chase the money. Do what you can to make enough and then just enjoy your home life...stop measuring career success in dollar terms, equipment you fly and the seat in which you sit.