CS Pay

[theskyking]

Couple of things interesting about B19's arguments.

It's amazing how much time is spent trying to prove that NJW and her arguments are irrelevant. Multiple remarks about how she is a coat tail rider and has no business remarking about our industry. If she is so irrelevant, why so much energy in attacking what she has to say. Either she is relevant to the conversation, or she isn't. If she is, then you have to take her word at face value and not twist them to meet an agenda.

Another argument has to do with the distribution of pay. B19 said that in order for the pilots of 1108 to receive a raise, it had to come at someone else's expense. I think you would be hard pressed to find any workers at NJ that received a pay cut to fund our salaries. Let's take this argument to it's logical conclusion. I guess that means that B19 would be willing to forgo any raises or bonuses offered him because there very probably is someone else at his company that deserves a raise. I'm kind of doubting he has ever made that offer.

I think if anyone one's irrelevance has been proven over and over, it's B19.

 

[theskyking]

Because the original post CLEARLY stated that rank and file employees were negatively affected by the CBA.

I understand that you are not a brain surgeon because you chose not to make that investment, but if the only group covered by the CBA is pilots, then it's pretty obvious that rank and file is ANYBODY NOT COVERED BY A CBA.

It's clear she has a low opinion on those that either chose or was forced on to a different career path.

Still looking for evidence of any negative statement by NJW towards our support staff. Her statements simply point out that people have choices.

Just like your statement towards me and that I am not a brain surgeon. Not sure of your intent, but from your previous posts and demeanor, I take it that you are making a jab at my intellect. Well, just so you know, I attended a private university on a scholarship and ended up with a BS in molecular biology and chemistry. While there, I worked in a genetics lab for two years doing research on life expectancy and the effect of antioxidant producing genes. So, I take this pre med education, and guess what. I made a choice. I decided to go a different direction and pursued a passion of mine and went and worked with animals for 7 years. I was basically a laborer making below average pay because I made a choice.

Then, you know what, I made another choice. I pursued another passion of mine and started flying. Doing this set me back years financially. But I made the choice.

That's all her post was about. Choices. We make them and hopefully things work out. The thing is that there are always people who choose not to be happy with how their choices panned out. Not much we can do about that. But if someone wants to attain what we as a pilot group has, all they have to do is make the choice.

 

[B19 Flyer]

Still looking for evidence of any negative statement by NJW towards our support staff. Her statements simply point out that people have choices.

Just like your statement towards me and that I am not a brain surgeon. Not sure of your intent, but from your previous posts and demeanor, I take it that you are making a jab at my intellect. Well, just so you know, I attended a private university on a scholarship and ended up with a BS in molecular biology and chemistry. While there, I worked in a genetics lab for two years doing research on life expectancy and the effect of antioxidant producing genes. So, I take this pre med education, and guess what. I made a choice. I decided to go a different direction and pursued a passion of mine and went and worked with animals for 7 years. I was basically a laborer making below average pay because I made a choice.

Then, you know what, I made another choice. I pursued another passion of mine and started flying. Doing this set me back years financially. But I made the choice.

That's all her post was about. Choices. We make them and hopefully things work out. The thing is that there are always people who choose not to be happy with how their choices panned out. Not much we can do about that. But if someone wants to attain what we as a pilot group has, all they have to do is make the choice.

No, you are wrong. Her post was specific.

It's clear she has a low opinion on those that either chose or was forced on to a different career path.

 

[theskyking]

You keep saying she was specific, but as of yet you haven't produced any proof. I read these posts, right around #96 or so, and see nothing of the sort. I guess it depends on the agenda you are pushing as to how you choose to interpret them.

I think the most irritating thing about you is that an intelligent discourse is impossible. You refuse to acknowledge facts that are plain as day. Let's go over a few of them.

1)The work that 1108 did at NJ has produced an industry leading pay scale that is sending positive ripples throughout the industry. We are happy to see our non union comrades receive some of the same benifits. But the fact is, their pay would not be where it is if it weren't for the precedent set at NJ.

2)The benefit package at NJ is industry leading. The interpretation of the regs by our union and management provides the safest environment in the industry to work.

3)Netjets is the dominant force in the industry with a huge lead in market share. Profits are increasing every year in spite of the overpaid pilots.

Without having access to payroll's records, I think it is safe to assume that these financial benifits are being felt throughout the company. If there is anything our management has learned in the last few years, it's the value of a well motivated work force.

We all know there have been abuses by unions in the past. But to avoid any kind of organization because abuses have occurred at one time or another is asinine. No one would belong to any social organization (church, politics, fraternities, etc...) if that were your take on life.

So, I suggest you let 1108 plow ahead with this cooperative relationship that's been developed with our company leaders. If NJ falls on it's face due to the greedy pilots, then you can be the first in line to say "I told you so". But until then, do us a favor and SFU.

 

[BengalsFan]

will you all please stop argueing and wasting this thread?

 

[netjetwife]

SK, quick! You better make it plain that you're just being sarcastic about the NJ pilots being greedy and overpaid or the word twister will be claiming that you made a confession that supports his FUD campaign...

Have y'all noticed that B19 spouts off about respect while insulting a pilot's wife for supporting her husband? B19's claim to respect a military member while insulting the pilot and his wife is evidence of disrespect. Fisch (and others, I'm sure) saw right thru those posts. Sky, you nailed it when you say that B19 ignores the truth that disputes his agenda. He refused to stay in the debate ring after Caveo used hard-hitting facts to counter his bogus claims. B19 deals with FUD, not reality, so all he can do is twist words and cowardly attack a pilot's wife (notice he didn't go after Gunfyter for his like analogy) for simply pointing out (with NO disrespect) that professionals have skills that deserve a higher salary than the average (by definition "rank and file") worker.

GF, it's hard to argue with reality so those dealing with FUD are hard-pressed to justify low pilot wages and attack 1108's good record. Maybe B19 is new to Fud & Harrison and is trying to gain experience here? Or maybe he works for a low budget competitor of F&H? Perhaps B19 is just a bitter person with an ax to grind? Whatever the case, he obviously sides with managers that want to deny pilots a fair wage.

No one knows where B19 is employed or what his current position is because he won't answer questions about his present job. He lacks credibility and apparently has no direct tie to the frac industry. That renders his opinions irrelevant compared to those whose lives are directly impacted by the events in the industry. B19 has posted that he is anti-union and he has no connection to 1108; therefore his prejudicial comments have no value compared to those of 1108 members and their spouses. The front-row seat insights that I post have proven credibility and my encouragement to frac pilots standing up for themselves is appreciated. That makes me a logical target for anyone trying to discredit 1108 and discourage frac pilots from seeking a fair contract. Typically, FUD-flingers view a non-pilot/wife as an easier target compared to overcoming the reality that many frac pilots are underpaid/overworked and that 1108 has a record to be proud of. NJW attacks show that B19's grasping at straws. He's also rudely interrupting a discussion among members of an online frac community.

This thread is supposed to be a celebration of the bar being raised for CS pilots as a result of the new NJ contract. I'm very happy for the CS pilots and hopeful that the ripples will continue to spread across the industry. I don't believe in crashing parties so I suggest that B19 go start his own thread in a forum that welcomes anti-union members of management. The CS pilots have earned their pay raise and this thread should focus on positive progress being made to improve conditions for frac pilots and their families. NJW

 

[netjetwife]

will you all please stop argueing and wasting this thread?

Sorry BF, please note the paragraph of my previous post to see that I sympathize with your frustration and would also like to return to the original topic.

Question for CS pilots: Along with the pay raise were there any improvements in the rest of your compensation package? Congratulations again! NJW

 

[Ultra Grump]

Fischy and Grumpy, great posts and thanks for politely helping me to learn more about Bridgeway.

I'm an Equal Opportunity A-hole. Here to serve.

 

[netjetwife]

I'm an Equal Opportunity A-hole. Here to serve.

Thanks, Grumpy! Equality means a lot to me given my minority status on the board. :beer:

And don't worry about the chinks in your gruff exterior. I won't hold your friendly moments against you....

 

[netjetwife]

Where did Family Guy go?!

Some have had difficulty adapting to the cooperative spirit that now exists between the Union and Bridgeway. There are two choices. Bury the hatchet and move forward or end up stuck in your old mind-set watching the rest of the group tackle exciting projects as a team. Those who choose the latter may find that they have nothing relevant to add.

On a related topic, my husband said that last week's luncheon meeting (NJ pulled him off the line to attend) was a big success--very motivational. I'm enjoying the book that was written by the guest speaker. Everyone there (about 300) got one. The book is about providing excellent customer service and makes the point that motivating the workforce is crucial to success. Luckily, that basic (but often unused) concept is being applied at NJA. It seems to be catching on at Shares, too. Here's hoping the spirit of cooperation will eventually take hold across the industry. The carrot/stick choice has never been clearer in the frac industry: move forward as a team focused on productivity backed by fairness and motivation or get left behind with inefficient, penny-wise, pound-foolish methods and burned-out employees.
Fingers crossed for the rest of you,
Netjetwife

 

[brokeflyer]

A little less than NJ.
First year FO will be $55,510 for 7 on 7 off. Also said that we will be getting new schedule options with appropriate pay scales, but for now we will remain on the 7/7 schedule. 5 Year captain 101K. Tops out at 142K for a 15 year captain.

lol, thats a little more than "a little less"

your all welcome for the raise. Now just gotta work on your benefits, work rules, etc, etc and you'd have it all.

 

[SKYLAWYER]

your all welcome for the raise.

You didn't get the fruit basket I sent you?

 

[brokeflyer]

lol no....you dont have to send me stuff. We're all in this together.

 

[Juan Trippe]

You guys/gals get these sweet pay raises, and yet you are still complaining! Unbelievable! True pilot folk to the bone.

And, it's great to see all the negative 'union mentality' blowing around here. I'm not missing that anymore. Gripe, gripe, gripe. Don't choke on that free crew meal.

And the already oversized pilot-type egos on here seem to multiply in size while they are hiding safely behind their firewalls. If only all that energy could somehow be harnessed as an alternative energy source. Man!

Ya'll need to pipe-down a bit, and enjoy your raises a bit more. Remember, someone once said "Life is short". Don't spend all your time on here bickering!

 

[B19 Flyer]

Another good analogy, GF. All those rank and file frac workers...personally, I prefer CA1900's term-- support folks...were free to be pilots if they had chosen to make that investment. Maybe they prefer being home with their families every night? Sleeping in their own beds? Being home on holidays? Not working a 14/10 schedule? Not being responsible for the lives of pax? Not having their license at risk every flight? Oh wait, support folks don't have to have a license from the FAA do they? I bet they recognize that pilots have additional skills and experience that support folks don't have because they're dealing with reality--not flinging FUD.

PILOTS ARE PROFESSIONALS RESPONSIBLE FOR LIVES AND SHOULD BE COMPENSATED ACCORDINGLY

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