CS Pay

[netjetwife]

I think Wilbur just rolled over in the grave, never thought I would hear anything like that from Humphrey......WOW.

I see I'm not the only one who is amazed. Nice change, huh? As one whose posts were frequently blasted for suggesting that frac pilots could raise the industry bar by working together, I'd like to say that vindication is sweet, but not nearly as rewarding as seeing hard work by 1108 volunteers (my family among them) pay off for so many frac families. Congrats to the CS pilots on their well-deserved raise.

In the spirit of a true community, I think it's great to see concern for those frac pilots and families that (so far) are being left behind. I do think that some pressure will be brought to bear from raising the bar at NJA and CS. The legitimate calls for parity will now be more difficult to ignore and those demanding fairness will be encouraged to continue the good fight against sub-par wages and work rules. NJW

A RISING TIDE SHOULD LIFT ALL BOATS

 

[GOULET!]

So how do the meals work at CS? Don't think that was ever answered.

 

[learflyer]

So how do the meals work at CS? Don't think that was ever answered.

I don't know about now, but you used to get crew meals at a discounted rate with per diem. yes?

 

[Sparse]

So how do the meals work at CS? Don't think that was ever answered.

Crew Meals cost $10.00. We pay the entire amount and expense it less $10.00. Sometimes they are worth the ten dollars and other times they are not.

 

[blueridge71]

What's the difference between a Net Jets Pilot and Jeffery Dahmer?


Even Jeffery Dahmer didn't eat EVERY leg...

:laugh:


Zing!

 

[blueridge71]

So how do the meals work at CS? Don't think that was ever answered.

Mostly we get the crew car and go for a sandwich.

 

[B19 Flyer]

I see I'm not the only one who is amazed. Nice change, huh? As one whose posts were frequently blasted for suggesting that frac pilots could raise the industry bar by working together, I'd like to say that vindication is sweet, but not nearly as rewarding as seeing hard work by 1108 volunteers (my family among them) pay off for so many frac families. Congrats to the CS pilots on their well-deserved raise.

In the spirit of a true community, I think it's great to see concern for those frac pilots and families that (so far) are being left behind. I do think that some pressure will be brought to bear from raising the bar at NJA and CS. The legitimate calls for parity will now be more difficult to ignore and those demanding fairness will be encouraged to continue the good fight against sub-par wages and work rules. NJW

A RISING TIDE SHOULD LIFT ALL BOATS

Hasn't it been established previously that your "family" is receiving a stipend for "volunteering" for the union?

NOBODY is ever compensated if they are volunteering. Volunteering is done above and beyond the normal paycheck.

If your family is being paid because of time lost flying, then they are working for the union and taking time away from producing revenue for NetJets., which is what he was hired to to.

After getting burned by the union at American, you still beat the union drum expecting different results.

 

[fischman]

B19,

Re-read my post about compensation for the "volunteers." The volunteers do NOT get ANY money from 1108. The ELECTED union officials do get compensated from the pilots for OT lost because they do not get the chance to earn that while on flight duty (although they put in more hours than I do).

The amount is by no means outrageous and IMHO, is well earned. The 1108 leaders are worth every nickel I have paid to them.

 

[B19 Flyer]

B19,

Re-read my post about compensation for the "volunteers." The volunteers do NOT get ANY money from 1108. The ELECTED union officials do get compensated from the pilots for OT lost because they do not get the chance to earn that while on flight duty (although they put in more hours than I do).

The amount is by no means outrageous and IMHO, is well earned. The 1108 leaders are worth every nickel I have paid to them.

Oh no... that's not what NJW posted earlier. Her husband recieves a stipend to make up for the time her husband spends as a "volunteer" because of lost flying time.

You see, it's more important to "volunteer" for 1108 than work for the company that hired him to fly and produce revenue for the company.

Things like this are why I find unions impossible. Unions are a business within a business that pulls way from the mission of the business.

No excuse for it.

 

[Sparse]

B19,

Re-read my post about compensation for the "volunteers." The volunteers do NOT get ANY money from 1108. The ELECTED union officials do get compensated from the pilots for OT lost because they do not get the chance to earn that while on flight duty (although they put in more hours than I do).

The amount is by no means outrageous and IMHO, is well earned. The 1108 leaders are worth every nickel I have paid to them.

Without Union volunteerism, the union work doesn't get done. By far, the majrity of union volunteers work way more than they get credit for. The sad part is the few that give the majority a bad rap. At my previous employer, some, and very few, slugs at best, would drop a 3 or 4 day trip, to do union work. The volunteer would get paid for the trip by the company, which the union would reimburse the company for plus a 30-40% additive for beneits. Now here is where the sleeziness comes in. Those few would do one day of union work, make themselves availible for OT (double pay), and work on the other two days they dropped for union work. This was verifiable through schedules and it happenned. That is where a union has to police itself against abuses such as this. If your fellow pilots, through their dues money, pays for you to do union work, by golly you owe it to them to work at least as much as you would have worked if you didn't volunteer.

 

[gunfyter]

NOBODY is ever compensated if they are volunteering. Volunteering is done above and beyond the normal paycheck.

BS, I volunteered to Fly Airplanes in the military. I was paid extra for volunteering.

Was I not a volunteer?

Millions have volunteered to serve their country in the armed forces. They do receive compensation. are they not volunteers?

Many volunteer to serve as Union officials ... to make the company a Better place to work.

 

[netjetwife]

Without Union volunteerism, the union work doesn't get done. By far, the majrity of union volunteers work way more than they get credit for. .... If your fellow pilots, through their dues money, pays for you to do union work, by golly you owe it to them to work at least as much as you would have worked if you didn't volunteer.

Good post, Sparse. I totally agree. 1108 volunteers and leaders work very hard, as the '05 and '07 CBAs can attest, not to mention all the committee work and representations that go with running the Union on a daily basis. The stipend is fairly recent and many volunteers and leaders had lost thousands of dollars in missed earnings opportunities before the stipend was approved. My husband's conservative guess was 10K for our family and that doesn't include the time-value of countless hours spent working at his desk on his days "off". Conference call is a household term our kids are very familiar with. Many of the 1108 pilots and volunteers (my family among them) also donated thousand$ to help establish StrongUnion and 1108. Should another grass-roots movement occur, I'm confident the NJ pilots would again offer time and money to help an important cause succeed. Remember, lots of behind the scenes work is done before a big project is launched.

Many of the projects my husband works on (like today's meeting w/upper management) are done by joint (pilot-management) committees. NJA values the help and doesn't bat an eye at pulling some of the pilots off the line and bringing them to CMH at Company expense. For example, the Union Training Committee (UTC) led the re-design effort and has saved NJA millions in training costs. The pilotgroup and upper management both realize that 1108 volunteers/leaders bring much talent to the table and the joint projects are worth every dollar spent. The exemplary working relationship between 1108 and management is commendable and everyone throughout the company has benefited because of it.

 

[netjetwife]

B19,

Re-read my post about compensation for the "volunteers." The volunteers do NOT get ANY money from 1108. My Fischy friend this is confusing the readers. Stewards and some Committee Chairmen (which are volunteer, appointed positions) earn the stipend because of time spent in CMH on meetings and joint projects. The ELECTED union officials do get compensated from the pilots for OT lost because they do not get the chance to earn that while on flight duty (although they put in more hours than I do). Absolutely the dues spent on Union work has been a fantastic investment for the pilotgroup.
The amount is by no means outrageous and IMHO, is well earned. The 1108 leaders are worth every nickel I have paid to them.

The NJ pilots wouldn't have the contract and improved working conditions they do today without the many, many hours (and much personal sacrifice) 1108 volunteers and leaders have put in on their behalf.

 

[B19 Flyer]

The NJ pilots wouldn't have the contract and improved working conditions they do today without the many, many hours (and much personal sacrifice) 1108 volunteers and leaders have put in on their behalf.

You seem to forget, that the dollars for the pilot contract come from somewhere, they don't just suddenly appear.

The real sacrifice comes from the rank and file employees that work equally hard to support the operation. Wages that would get spread more evenly throughout the company get dumped into the contract, and rank and file employees get the shaft because the payroll bucket doesn't change.

Not once, not one single time in a year of posting have I seen one word that supports the rank and file employees that take it on the chin when a union contract is put in place.

These are the people that work more hours a month, in many cases the same if not more education and have paid their dues no different than any pilot but chose or were forced to a life in a support position rather than flying. I don't want to read the hallowed crap about the responsibility of flying, because that stands for itself. I get that and pilots should be compensated accordingly. However, it shouldn't be at the expense of the rest of the company which is exactly what happens when a CBA is forced onto a company.

Why is there such disrespect from the union members on this board? When a CBA happens, and pilots get their QOL, the money comes from the company and the rest of the employees get screwed.

I understand a little bit about sacrifice after being part of the colateral damage caused by the scorched earth attitude of two unions.

 

[netjetwife]

.... Millions have volunteered to serve their country in the armed forces. They do receive compensation. are they not volunteers? Many volunteer to serve as Union officials ... to make the company a Better place to work.

Excellent analogy, GF, and thanks for your service to our country. The expression all volunteer force is commonly used to describe our military. Our resident FUD flinger is ignoring reality (common sign of deception) in his useless attempt to stir up discontent among 1108 members. I previously posted the definition of volunteer that applies to 1108: One who enters into, or offers for, any service of his own free will. I even went on to add (readers please excuse the redundancy required for the deliberately dimwitted among us) that service is not a requirement of union membership. But that fact doesn't fit an agenda of twisting the truth and disparaging the pilots who choose to stand together and help one another.

The vast majority of the posters here would like to focus on current events and relevant topics. But one among is marching in the village square to his own beat.... Amid the monotonous drumming FUD..FUD..FUD..I'd like to publicly thank the American pilots' union for getting stock options for the furloughed pilots who were victims of terrorism and mismanagement.

 

[CA1900]

The real sacrifice comes from the rank and file employees that work equally hard to support the operation.

While our support folks work very hard and we do depend on them, I genuinely believe our pilots work harder, under ever-changing conditions and schedules that those folks don't deal with.

We earn the lion's share of the pay because we do the lion's share of the work out on the front lines. And when those support folks make a mistake, we're the ones who are left the clean up the mess.

Wages that would get spread more evenly throughout the company get dumped into the contract, and rank and file employees get the shaft because the payroll bucket doesn't change.

As I'm sure NJA Owner can attest, the monthly management fees -- the source of our salaries -- have gone up to cover increased pilot wages. In exchange, we've been able to continue to recruit quality pilots who know the ins-and-outs of the system, who don't skimp on customer service, and who, as the only employees our customers will likely see, will go the extra mile to give the best service possible. Keeping employees like that costs money; it's as simple as that.

These are the people that work more hours a month, in many cases the same if not more education...

I'm not sure where you get the education assertion. Most of our pilots are college graduates with decades of real-world experience. Experience costs an employer money, in any field.

As for the hours, I put in 216 hours at work last month (18 days, average of 12 hours a day), and that doesn't even account for time away from home in hotels. I don't see too many of flight coordinators pulling 50 hour weeks and sleeping in a different city each night.

Why is there such disrespect from the union members on this board? When a CBA happens, and pilots get their QOL, the money comes from the company and the rest of the employees get screwed.

You sound like Bush. With us or against us. Us versus them. Union versus non-union. Just because we're able to negotiate a payscale commensurate with our position and experience, and have work rules in place to protect our safety and quality of life, does not mean anyone else has to get screwed in the process.

And if these other employees really feel like they're underpaid and abused, they're free to use the provisions of the Railway Labor Act to negotiate their pay and benefits, just as we have.

I understand a little bit about sacrifice after being part of the colateral damage caused by the scorched earth attitude of two unions.

When a company gets to that stage, it's because the company and its management has made serious errors in judgment. Management has driven the company into the ground. FlightOptions is a perfect example of this.

 

[netjetwife]

CA1900, isn't it tiresome having a person who has no affiliation at all with NJA telling pilots from there what is happening in that company... Incredible! As in lacking credibility, but spoken like a classic paid union buster whose real objective is to drive a wedge between the employees.
Everyone at NJA knows that the end of labor strife brought record profits and growth as motivated pilots proved that the carrot approach is much more productive than the stick. In aviation it is in every employees best interest to have well experienced pilots, responsible for lives and aircraft worth millions, at the controls. As a direct result of professional compensation NJA and CS are attracting pilots while the underpaid pilots of Options are leaving and few are lining up for the stick approach used there. Every employee wants to be proud of the company they work for; a desirable, growing company is far preferred by the rank and file over one that is shunned for low wages and mismanagement.

At NJA joint projects-- embraced with enthusiasm-- involve both line pilots and support workers. FUD spreaders typically conjure up all kinds of things that aren't true, especially during card drives and contract negotiations, but reality speaks for itself. Compared to an outsider with an agenda, frac pilots are the best source of information concerning the companies they fly for and 1108 volunteers/members are the ones who can speak knowledgeably about their Union.

Boots on and wading thru the FUD,
Netjetwife

 

[fischman]

NJW,

Thanks for the correction. I did forget about the Stewards and some of the committee chairs. However, the money they recieve is to reimburse them for expenses they need to complete their union volunteer duties. For example, I get help from 1108 for my cell phone bill for the HOURS upon HOURS I spend on it.

The Stewards and elected officials get a little extra because they put in such an incredible amount of time that they NEVER get a chance to earn holiday pay or OT. That is where WE THE PILOTS tell our leaders and Chairpeople we appreciate them. It is by no means excessive.

 

[fischman]

You seem to forget, that the dollars for the pilot contract come from somewhere, they don't just suddenly appear.

The real sacrifice comes from the rank and file employees that work equally hard to support the operation. Wages that would get spread more evenly throughout the company get dumped into the contract, and rank and file employees get the shaft because the payroll bucket doesn't change.

Not once, not one single time in a year of posting have I seen one word that supports the rank and file employees that take it on the chin when a union contract is put in place.

These are the people that work more hours a month, in many cases the same if not more education and have paid their dues no different than any pilot but chose or were forced to a life in a support position rather than flying. I don't want to read the hallowed crap about the responsibility of flying, because that stands for itself. I get that and pilots should be compensated accordingly. However, it shouldn't be at the expense of the rest of the company which is exactly what happens when a CBA is forced onto a company.

Why is there such disrespect from the union members on this board? When a CBA happens, and pilots get their QOL, the money comes from the company and the rest of the employees get screwed.

I understand a little bit about sacrifice after being part of the colateral damage caused by the scorched earth attitude of two unions.

It seems to me that the "rank and file" employees need a union. They are really getting $h!t on by the management.

 

[gunfyter]

The real sacrifice comes from the rank and file employees that work equally hard to support the operation. Wages that would get spread more evenly throughout the company get dumped into the contract, and rank and file employees get the shaft because the payroll bucket doesn't change.
.

You know... I was telling my wife, the ER Nurse ... Wages at the hospital should be spread more evenly ... The DOCTORS should not get so much so the Nurses and other support people at the Hospital don't get dumped on because of the Doctors compensation....

You know those Doc's get all the money and the payroll bucket doesn't change....