NWA, Delta pilot clash blocking merger

[jetflier]

I really like the phrase, "Keep your Delta your Delta"

but I think both airlines will be merged,...an pilots will have to come to an agreement. NWA/Republic were fused together with twenty year fences on equiptment. That may not be such a bad idea again.

 

[clippyrip]

I believe after 2021 there are significantly more DAL retirements each year than NWA.

I guess it depends on where you want to take your snap shot as to who has more retirements.

I like to take a snap shot while were young. But its good to know that after the huge NWA bump, delta has one coming too.

 

[Schwanker]

Through 2020 DAL has 1,259 retirements.

Here's the age 65 retirements I got from the DAL list;
2008: 0
2009: 0
2010: 0
2011: 0
2012: 2
2013: 60
2014: 73
2015: 89
2016:132
2017:157
2018:218
2019:272

Add them up and you get 1003 retirements between the 1 Jan 2008 list and the 1 Jan 2020 list. At lease we're not too far off. I'm fairly certain these numbers are right. Maybe you included 2020 retirements as well. I went to 1 Jan 2020. No biggie. I guess it really won't matter as we have no control anyways.

Schwanker

 

[~~~^~~~]

Delta management appears ready to walk away from this deal.

 

[scarlet]

WHY not DOH??? Totally fair.... You can not help when you were born, when you could have gotten your pilot ratings

Somethings you can not CONTROL

DOH most fair !!! No dog in fight here

 

[120% Torque]

Delta management appears ready to walk away from this deal.

Is that what you are hearing at HQ? Just curious where you are getting this vibe/info?

The closer I look at this the more I think this merger is not such a good idea for Delta guys. Too much risk for not enough reward. The better case scenario would be putting in a big order for more 777, 737 and an RJ replacment of some sort. Grow organically and raise the pay rates in 2009. Originally I thought it might not be a bad deal since NWA brings alot of retirements to the table. If Delta guys are relatively squished below alot of NWA guys that are below the guys who will retire in maybe five to ten more years then that one asset doesnt look so good. Flying a DC9 out of MSP or DTW looks pretty bad (no offense to those doing it now) compared to what even the new guys are getting at Delta.

It seems this merger stands to benefit the NWA group more than the Delta group. I'm sure they will dissagree but maybe both going it alone is the only way to truly find out.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Delta has been very up front about protecting the seniority of its employees in a transaction. The DMEC was also proactive in putting forward the pilots' role in the merger from the begining.

This is not new news, All along Delta has reported that it's stand alone plan is working well and the merger would not happen unless it benefits the stakeholders, including employees.

In response to the NWA seniority plans that have been reported, Delta's leadership re-emphasized its' long standing positions.

I think most folks want a fair transaction, but no one feels pressured to do a deal at any cost. This flight is not leaving the gate until the Captain agrees it is a safe operation.

Makes Doug Steenland happy too.

 

[FDJ2]

Here's the age 65 retirements I got from the DAL list;
2008: 0
2009: 0
2010: 0
2011: 0
2012: 2
2013: 60
2014: 73
2015: 89
2016:132
2017:157
2018:218
2019:272

Add them up and you get 1003 retirements between the 1 Jan 2008 list and the 1 Jan 2020 list. At lease we're not too far off. I'm fairly certain these numbers are right. Maybe you included 2020 retirements as well. I went to 1 Jan 2020. No biggie. I guess it really won't matter as we have no control anyways.

Schwanker

Your numbers are fairly accurate. However retirements don't stop in 2019. in 2020 DAL has 316 retirements in 2021 DAL has 453, in 2022 we have532 and so on and so on. While it may be convenient to take a snap shot for a limited period of time, it hardly tells the whole story. At the end of the day, if it comes to it, few arbitrators will consider potential future bumps in retirement numbers. Just ask the AAA pilots how that worked out for them.

The best result for all of us is a negotiated agreement. We can always play this game of selective targeting of the other guy and over stating our own expectations, but that's just a recipe for arbitration and a lost opportunity.

 

[wings421]

FWIW, I plotted out the retirements at DAL and NWA before they started to hire again (and before age 65 of course) and you would get half way up the list at NWA only one year before you'd get half way up the list at DAL.

 

[clippyrip]

It is entertaining to read these arguments about who is the hog with the big nuts. A few more arguments for each side and I think it will all be settled here on FI.

 

[Superpilot92]

Is that what you are hearing at HQ? Just curious where you are getting this vibe/info?

The closer I look at this the more I think this merger is not such a good idea for Delta guys. Too much risk for not enough reward. The better case scenario would be putting in a big order for more 777, 737 and an RJ replacment of some sort. Grow organically and raise the pay rates in 2009. Originally I thought it might not be a bad deal since NWA brings alot of retirements to the table. If Delta guys are relatively squished below alot of NWA guys that are below the guys who will retire in maybe five to ten more years then that one asset doesnt look so good. Flying a DC9 out of MSP or DTW looks pretty bad (no offense to those doing it now) compared to what even the new guys are getting at Delta.

It seems this merger stands to benefit the NWA group more than the Delta group. I'm sure they will dissagree but maybe both going it alone is the only way to truly find out.

If you step back and read what you wrote i think you might find it interesting. You say you want a fair deal right? You are saying you originally liked that the large amount of retirements at NWA could benefit you but when the deal is "mentioned" about making it fair for career expectations to the nwa guys and putting some NWA guys in front then suddenly its not fair?

I want a fair deal just as much as anyone but lets make it fair for everyone based on you current career expectations. IF they can work a deal out like that and your career expectations dont change much then that is the only "fair" way of doing it. IMHO However more than likely nothing we say on here will change anything.

 

[jke406]

Yup,...no bites here. They better sweeten' the pot.

No dog in this fight, but...

The pot is already considerably "sweeter" than anything you would see in your career without a merger, fella.

When the deal falls apart due to unreasonable demands by NWA zealots, I think you'll beg for the deal you're bashing now.

 

[dtfl]

DELETED - Double post

 

[dtfl]

Date of hire, plus some fences for domiciles,equipment and seats. What's the problem?

Because of the massive retirements DAL experienced.
DOH would be significantly tipped in NWAs favor. BUT..when NWA top guys retire it could swing the other way.
They need to reach a deal on a list that takes everything into account...they are basically (I bet) using every method to sort the list...DOH...A/C expectations and some sort of ratio also, as DAL has 7k+ pilots and NWA has 4k+.

NO stapling of anyone...that crap won't fly. From either side.

 

[NYRANGERS]

NO stapling of anyone...that crap won't fly. From either side.

Better yet, since the NWA guys think they are getting screwed, and us Delta guys KNOW we are getting screwed (by each others proposals)...why don't we all work together to kill this deal. Could it be that NWA guys see a huge improvement to their conrtact and a %30 pay raise on day one.

Come on guys, lets work together.....to end the deal. Were doin' just fine on our own, as are you guys at NWA.