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My hero....JC Lawson... Profile in CVG Enquirer...bring some Kleenex

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I've always said that ALPA is broken in some ways. I simply don't feel that lawsuits against your own are an acceptable way to fix problems. JC frequently talked about the huge divide between regionals and majors. MECs don't talk to each other as much as they should. Very few MECs coordinate. There is no centralized power. Etc... Duane himself agreed with much of this. Unfortunately, Pennekamp is right that most people just roll their eyes and talk sh-- about JC after his "speeches." People refuse to acknowledge that JC is absolutely right about the faults within the Association. He eventually made the right decision and ceased his support of the RJDC, and that's one of the reasons that I respect him. He realized that change was far more likely from within, but it's going to take a hell of a lot of work. Personally, I hope there's a position for him at National in some way, because I'd hate to see him just go back to the line and not contribute anymore to the profession.

The only reason the Catholic Church got serious about the priest abuse issue is because of the lawsuits...... Sometimes it takes financial threats to make good organizations do the right thing.....

Without the financial threats, most large organizations spend more time covering up problems to protect the organization rather than fix the problem.....

Sometimes "tough love" is all that turns things around.....
 
Sorry, Joe, but we'll always disagree on this.
 
Sorry, Joe, but we'll always disagree on this.

I'll take that as you can't really argue with the fact that sometimes it takes a financial incentive to correct something.....Money talks.....BS walks......
 
No, I can argue with it, but I'm tired of doing so. How many times have we had the same debate, Joe? It's grown tiresome. The lawsuit is over. It failed. Thank God. I'm ready to move on and worry about other things. I wish you were as well.
 
No, I can argue with it, but I'm tired of doing so. How many times have we had the same debate, Joe? It's grown tiresome. The lawsuit is over. It failed. Thank God. I'm ready to move on and worry about other things. I wish you were as well.

Actually you and Rez. keep bringing up the lawsuit.... All 3 of us agree ALPA is broken.....Rez even has it in his profile (fixing ALPA)..... I believe large organizations need a financial incentive to "fix things"....Whether it is a corporation, a union, a country, or a religion....They usually need a financial "push" to fix things....

JC wanted to "fix" ALPA. You and Rez want to "fix" ALPA. I want to "fix" ALPA..... I don't believe ALPA will "fix" itself until it is forced to.....Time will tell who is right......
 
Personally, I hope there's a position for him at National in some way, because I'd hate to see him just go back to the line and not contribute anymore to the profession.

I would think that's guaranteed. Wychor got one. If JC doesn't, then you know what ALPA thinks of him.
 
No, I can argue with it, but I'm tired of doing so. How many times have we had the same debate, Joe? It's grown tiresome. The lawsuit is over. It failed. Thank God. I'm ready to move on and worry about other things. I wish you were as well.

How did the lawsuit fail? ALPA settled on terms including a guarantee that affected regional pilot MECs would be included in mainline scope discussions that impact them. This was the core of the RJDC effort.
 
Actually you and Rez. keep bringing up the lawsuit.... All 3 of us agree ALPA is broken.....Rez even has it in his profile (fixing ALPA)..... I believe large organizations need a financial incentive to "fix things"....Whether it is a corporation, a union, a country, or a religion....They usually need a financial "push" to fix things....

JC wanted to "fix" ALPA. You and Rez want to "fix" ALPA. I want to "fix" ALPA..... I don't believe ALPA will "fix" itself until it is forced to.....Time will tell who is right......

I used to think I could fix ALPA. I even actively tried. All it did was make me an outcast because the ALPA leadership does not want things to change. They are not ready. You can't fix somebody who is in denial that they are broken.
 
How did the lawsuit fail? ALPA settled on terms including a guarantee that affected regional pilot MECs would be included in mainline scope discussions that impact them. This was the core of the RJDC effort.
The only thing they got was a guarantee that they would be notified of the mainline carrier's scope proposals. They don't get to sit at the table or actively participate. If you think the mainline MECs are going to do anything more than just email a copy of the scope section to the regional MEC, then you're kidding yourself.
 
Good Lord....

This guy makes me sick....He puts his boot in the eye of a lot of FURLOUGHED (drop the Delta part) PILOTS....His legacy is sealed.......end of story. The sad part is, a lot of good Pilots will be overlooked for jobs at Del-duh because of his politics......

Scuse me, I gotta go take a "Lawson"......
 
The only thing they got was a guarantee that they would be notified of the mainline carrier's scope proposals. They don't get to sit at the table or actively participate. If you think the mainline MECs are going to do anything more than just email a copy of the scope section to the regional MEC, then you're kidding yourself.

PCL, sometimes you just don't make sense.

Let's go back in time and pretend you're still a PCL MEC member. NWA is trying to screw you by negotiating pay concessions to take all of your -900s and -700s. The -200s are on their way to retirement. There is no provision that NWA must take PCL pilots. But of course, this never happened. It would have given Dan Ford all of the ammo he needed.

Now, tell me again with that haughty tone how the RJDC's actions were useless. As a former ASA MEC member, I ASSURE YOU that the MEC acknowledged MANY times behind closed doors that the RJDC lawsuit threat was the ONLY thing that kept DALPA from instituting a "jets 4 jobs" scheme for DCI.

They may only have to notify us it's coming this time, but at least we can prepare. And a future lawsuit is not out of the question.
 
Let's go back in time and pretend you're still a PCL MEC member. NWA is trying to screw you by negotiating pay concessions to take all of your -900s and -700s. The -200s are on their way to retirement. There is no provision that NWA must take PCL pilots.
Remember John, we have a different mindset about these things. I wouldn't feel I was being "screwed" by the NWA pilots if they took back their flying. Getting as much flying on the mainline list as possible is the goal. The regionals should serve a small niche and should basically serve as a stepping stone to the mainline carriers for most pilots. Expanded -700 and -900 flying at the regionals is abhorrent.
 
Remember John, we have a different mindset about these things. I wouldn't feel I was being "screwed" by the NWA pilots if they took back their flying. Getting as much flying on the mainline list as possible is the goal. The regionals should serve a small niche and should basically serve as a stepping stone to the mainline carriers for most pilots. Expanded -700 and -900 flying at the regionals is abhorrent.

And how did that work for you? You don't work for mainline.

And what about those of us who have no desire to "move on"? I can make a good career and make good enough money doing this. Not everyone dreams of Big Shiny Jets. Why should we all be handicapped because a bunch of starry eyed kids dream of flying the big metal? It's because of this attitude that we're treated like the farm leagues, and its not fair.

This is the very crux of the lawsuit. Guys like me who don't want to fall on our swords so that "more maninle jobs are created"!
 
And how did that work for you? You don't work for mainline.
I don't work for NWA mainline (never wanted to), but I did find work at a mainline carrier. But what would have happened if the NPA years ago had allowed outsourcing of 90-seat airplanes? That's only 27 seats less than what I'm flying now. I'd wager that the job I have now wouldn't have been available, because it would have been outsourced to you or some other regional carrier at much lower payrates. Because of the NPA keeping that flying on the list, I now have a job at a carrier with a good retirement plan and decent pay. All mainline carriers should aim to keep as much flying on their own lists as possible, and that benefits the regional pilots by providing opportunities for advancement.
And what about those of us who have no desire to "move on"? I can make a good career and make good enough money doing this.
That's fine, but if you want to stay at the regionals then you should accept that you'll always be flying smaller aircraft that the mainline pilots allow to be outsourced. Expecting mainline pilots to allow their flying to be outsourced to you is ridiculous.
 
I don't work for NWA mainline (never wanted to), but I did find work at a mainline carrier. But what would have happened if the NPA years ago had allowed outsourcing of 90-seat airplanes? That's only 27 seats less than what I'm flying now. I'd wager that the job I have now wouldn't have been available, because it would have been outsourced to you or some other regional carrier at much lower payrates. Because of the NPA keeping that flying on the list, I now have a job at a carrier with a good retirement plan and decent pay. All mainline carriers should aim to keep as much flying on their own lists as possible, and that benefits the regional pilots by providing opportunities for advancement.

You hit the nail on the head. NWA (and many other "mainline" carriers) CHOSE to outsource that flying. That decision is in the past, and can't be simply taken back with the stroke of a pen. Good for you that Airtran "mainline" (lol) didn't outsource. Seems SOMEBODY learned from the mistakes of the past.

That's fine, but if you want to stay at the regionals then you should accept that you'll always be flying emaller aircraft that the mainline pilots allow to be outsourced. Expecting mainline pilots to allow their flying to be outsourced to you is ridiculous.

I have accepted that. You don't get it. My request is leave me and my job alone, and stop trying to reneg on a decision you ("mainline") made 10+ years ago. I don't "expect" more outsourcing, I do expect them to stop attempting to steal my job back.

You are parroting anti RJDC propaganda now.
 

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