Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

My hero....JC Lawson... Profile in CVG Enquirer...bring some Kleenex

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web
PCL128, stop defending him
Sorry, but no. JC is a good man that worked hard for his pilots. He made plenty of mistakes, but I firmly believe that he was doing what he thought was best for the pilots he represents. I wish I could say the same for lots of other ALPA leaders.
PCL why do you always act like its ok for the Alpa leaders to make errors "its human" you say.
Is it not human to make mistakes? Do you expect and demand absolute perfection from your ALPA leaders? Do you believe that's a reasonable expectation?
YOu can never say Alpa messed up, you always say "they made a mistake, but look what they have done good" well did you ever stop to think the bad out weighs the good. You sure like the Alpa koolaid.
I say that ALPA messed up plenty of times. But yes, ALPA's good far outweighs its bad.
 
True. But JC would say that the strike itself was an important achievement because it showed regional managements that regional pilots are willing to go to the mat when necessary. It's just a shame that no other regional group was willing to follow suit...


I disagree on part of that statement. Comair pilots are willing to go to the mat, but regional pilots as a whole are unwilling. Look what happened after our strike. Every one else caved. And national ALPA led the way in telling them to cave! You won't get a better contract, live to fight another day, yadda, yadda, yadda. I actually think the rank and file major folks were willing to fight each regional management. I think national lacked the will.
 
Sorry, but no. JC is a good man that worked hard for his pilots. He made plenty of mistakes, but I firmly believe that he was doing what he thought was best for the pilots he represents. I wish I could say the same for lots of other ALPA leaders.Is it not human to make mistakes? Do you expect and demand absolute perfection from your ALPA leaders? Do you believe that's a reasonable expectation?I say that ALPA messed up plenty of times. But yes, ALPA's good far outweighs its bad.
Get off your knees already
 
I disagree on part of that statement. Comair pilots are willing to go to the mat, but regional pilots as a whole are unwilling. Look what happened after our strike. Every one else caved.
I agree. That's what I meant in the last sentence.
 
I disagree on part of that statement. Comair pilots are willing to go to the mat, but regional pilots as a whole are unwilling. Look what happened after our strike. Every one else caved. And national ALPA led the way in telling them to cave! You won't get a better contract, live to fight another day, yadda, yadda, yadda. I actually think the rank and file major folks were willing to fight each regional management. I think national lacked the will.

ASA did not cave. In fact, it hurt us the most when you caved (three times) during our negotiations. Especially the one outside of bk, the "pay freeze" for the 170s you never got.

But JC and the boys still sent us stickers saying "Comair pilots stand behind ASA pilots". They left out "with a bottle of KY and a big smile".
 
JC actually understands true trade unionism and what it will take to fix things within ALPA. It's a shame that no one wants to listen.

I have to agree here with PCL_128....and I don't often do that.....

I do have to add that JC was an RJDC supporter.....
 
ASA did not cave. In fact, it hurt us the most when you caved (three times) during our negotiations. Especially the one outside of bk, the "pay freeze" for the 170s you never got.

But JC and the boys still sent us stickers saying "Comair pilots stand behind ASA pilots". They left out "with a bottle of KY and a big smile".

No other pilot group will "stand behind" any other pilot group....We are all competing with each other.....
 
Nobody's perfect. ;)

Without getting into our usual pi$$ing contest, why do you think he was an RJDC supporter? You yourself mentioned that JC wanted to "fix" ALPA. Those were your words. You usually don't "fix" something if it isn't broken? Is ALPA broken?
 
Without getting into our usual pi$$ing contest, why do you think he was an RJDC supporter? You yourself mentioned that JC wanted to "fix" ALPA. Those were your words. You usually don't "fix" something if it isn't broken? Is ALPA broken?
I've always said that ALPA is broken in some ways. I simply don't feel that lawsuits against your own are an acceptable way to fix problems. JC frequently talked about the huge divide between regionals and majors. MECs don't talk to each other as much as they should. Very few MECs coordinate. There is no centralized power. Etc... Duane himself agreed with much of this. Unfortunately, Pennekamp is right that most people just roll their eyes and talk sh-- about JC after his "speeches." People refuse to acknowledge that JC is absolutely right about the faults within the Association. He eventually made the right decision and ceased his support of the RJDC, and that's one of the reasons that I respect him. He realized that change was far more likely from within, but it's going to take a hell of a lot of work. Personally, I hope there's a position for him at National in some way, because I'd hate to see him just go back to the line and not contribute anymore to the profession.
 
I've always said that ALPA is broken in some ways. I simply don't feel that lawsuits against your own are an acceptable way to fix problems. JC frequently talked about the huge divide between regionals and majors. MECs don't talk to each other as much as they should. Very few MECs coordinate. There is no centralized power. Etc... Duane himself agreed with much of this. Unfortunately, Pennekamp is right that most people just roll their eyes and talk sh-- about JC after his "speeches." People refuse to acknowledge that JC is absolutely right about the faults within the Association. He eventually made the right decision and ceased his support of the RJDC, and that's one of the reasons that I respect him. He realized that change was far more likely from within, but it's going to take a hell of a lot of work. Personally, I hope there's a position for him at National in some way, because I'd hate to see him just go back to the line and not contribute anymore to the profession.

The only reason the Catholic Church got serious about the priest abuse issue is because of the lawsuits...... Sometimes it takes financial threats to make good organizations do the right thing.....

Without the financial threats, most large organizations spend more time covering up problems to protect the organization rather than fix the problem.....

Sometimes "tough love" is all that turns things around.....
 
Sorry, Joe, but we'll always disagree on this.
 
Sorry, Joe, but we'll always disagree on this.

I'll take that as you can't really argue with the fact that sometimes it takes a financial incentive to correct something.....Money talks.....BS walks......
 
No, I can argue with it, but I'm tired of doing so. How many times have we had the same debate, Joe? It's grown tiresome. The lawsuit is over. It failed. Thank God. I'm ready to move on and worry about other things. I wish you were as well.
 
No, I can argue with it, but I'm tired of doing so. How many times have we had the same debate, Joe? It's grown tiresome. The lawsuit is over. It failed. Thank God. I'm ready to move on and worry about other things. I wish you were as well.

Actually you and Rez. keep bringing up the lawsuit.... All 3 of us agree ALPA is broken.....Rez even has it in his profile (fixing ALPA)..... I believe large organizations need a financial incentive to "fix things"....Whether it is a corporation, a union, a country, or a religion....They usually need a financial "push" to fix things....

JC wanted to "fix" ALPA. You and Rez want to "fix" ALPA. I want to "fix" ALPA..... I don't believe ALPA will "fix" itself until it is forced to.....Time will tell who is right......
 
Personally, I hope there's a position for him at National in some way, because I'd hate to see him just go back to the line and not contribute anymore to the profession.

I would think that's guaranteed. Wychor got one. If JC doesn't, then you know what ALPA thinks of him.
 
No, I can argue with it, but I'm tired of doing so. How many times have we had the same debate, Joe? It's grown tiresome. The lawsuit is over. It failed. Thank God. I'm ready to move on and worry about other things. I wish you were as well.

How did the lawsuit fail? ALPA settled on terms including a guarantee that affected regional pilot MECs would be included in mainline scope discussions that impact them. This was the core of the RJDC effort.
 
Actually you and Rez. keep bringing up the lawsuit.... All 3 of us agree ALPA is broken.....Rez even has it in his profile (fixing ALPA)..... I believe large organizations need a financial incentive to "fix things"....Whether it is a corporation, a union, a country, or a religion....They usually need a financial "push" to fix things....

JC wanted to "fix" ALPA. You and Rez want to "fix" ALPA. I want to "fix" ALPA..... I don't believe ALPA will "fix" itself until it is forced to.....Time will tell who is right......

I used to think I could fix ALPA. I even actively tried. All it did was make me an outcast because the ALPA leadership does not want things to change. They are not ready. You can't fix somebody who is in denial that they are broken.
 
How did the lawsuit fail? ALPA settled on terms including a guarantee that affected regional pilot MECs would be included in mainline scope discussions that impact them. This was the core of the RJDC effort.
The only thing they got was a guarantee that they would be notified of the mainline carrier's scope proposals. They don't get to sit at the table or actively participate. If you think the mainline MECs are going to do anything more than just email a copy of the scope section to the regional MEC, then you're kidding yourself.
 
Good Lord....

This guy makes me sick....He puts his boot in the eye of a lot of FURLOUGHED (drop the Delta part) PILOTS....His legacy is sealed.......end of story. The sad part is, a lot of good Pilots will be overlooked for jobs at Del-duh because of his politics......

Scuse me, I gotta go take a "Lawson"......
 

Latest resources

Back
Top