What has ALPA done for me lately?

[Flopgut]

ALPA will have to rollover on cabatoge because on May 17 2006 at the rally on the mall in Wash DC only 100 pilots showed up. There simply isn't enough support from the pilots to effect and real change. When a couple of ALPA officers talk to management or gov't without 60,000 pilots behind them, then it is just a fringe agenda....

That is the worst, old, failed standard for participation/support there is!! That's in the past!! My schedule is soo bad all I can do is fly and rest. That's how it is for us now.

What's going off in your brain that makes this sound like something good?? That you would latch on to this as the standard for support?? ALPA leadership needs to facilitiate representation (if they really want to help), not play "keep away" with policy making.

If ALPA would facilitate the membership's position on cabotage, and represent it without prejudice, we would have a union!! That would mean they would have to acknowledge the representation travesty that age 65 was, but that would be a healthy thing.

 

[jke406]

It's the utter arrogance of folks like Rez O. Lenin that drive pilots away from ALPA.

He berates and belittles his constituents... while lamely claiming their views are counted.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

The answer to this thread is fairly simple.

1 They take my dues with no true accountability.

And yet you chose to give it. That might say more about you than ALPA. You give away your money to an organization that you believe has no accountability. Wow. What else do you do?

2 I get a magazine.

3 They participated in, against the majority of my peers wishes,to further stagnate my career another 5 years.

What are you going to do about it? I say rise up and not accept injustice....

Alpa meeting on Wed in Charlotte. There was an individual in the Alpa meeting room that was doing presentations on the advantages of being an Alpa member. One of the Capt (Name Deleted), asked this individual what his role was with Alpa. He replied, Staff Member. We asked, "What do you do as a Staff Member"? He replied, I recruit future members for Alpa. Ok, what do you get paid? $250,000 a year! What? $250,000 a year to recruit future Alpa member and you are a Staff Member? Are you a pilot? No. We'll, that's a lot of money to recruit future Alpa members. What do Alpa secretaries get paid? About $85,000 per year. Really! Our co-pilots do not make $85,000 per year! We'll, replied the Staff Member, we have a good Union. I guess so. We'll, we don't. That's why we are about to get rid of you! Have a nice day!

I call BS. Who is the staffer. All thier names and salary are available in the internet, so let's hear it....

That is the worst, old, failed standard for participation/support there is!! That's in the past!! My schedule is soo bad all I can do is fly and rest. That's how it is for us now.

Wow.... As the most junior CA in domicile and a commuter with family.. only 10 days off a month on reserve I did all the standard member particaption activities and started a committee. I was told I made the place just a little bit better.

The ideal is.... what if everyone made an effort to make it just a bit better.... would we be better off?

What's going off in your brain that makes this sound like something good?? That you would latch on to this as the standard for support?? ALPA leadership needs to facilitiate representation (if they really want to help), not play "keep away" with policy making.

So 2% is enough. If so.... how are things working for us so far? How far is that 2% getting us...

If ALPA would facilitate the membership's position on cabotage, and represent it without prejudice, we would have a union!! That would mean they would have to acknowledge the representation travesty that age 65 was, but that would be a healthy thing.

With only 5% of members bothering to attend LEC meetings, I guess the question is.... what is the memberships position on it?

It's the utter arrogance of folks like Rez O. Lenin that drive pilots away from ALPA.

Its your career... not mine. I say rise up and rattle your leaderships cage...

He berates and belittles his constituents... while lamely claiming their views are counted.

I'd have to be an elected officer to have a constituent.... do you have anything of substence...

 

[MCDU]

http://1.usairlinepilots.org/ALPA_salaries.htm

Check out these salaries. This is were your dues are going while we lose retirement, vacation, salary, scope and now our seniority. Why would any US East pilot want them on their property.

Marty

 

[flygirlqt]

And yet you chose to give it. That might say more about you than ALPA. You give away your money to an organization that you believe has no accountability. Wow. What else do you do?

Complete and total BS! I am forced to fork over these dues because if I don't then I can be terminated. If ALPA actually had to rely on people voluntarily paying their dues based on a level of perceived value they get in return, the union would go broke in no time.

The problem that no matter how lousy, back stabbing, politically correct, palm greasing good old boys club ALPA is, nothing will change. In the end, no matter what, they get their money. They have no reason to change.

What are you going to do about it? I say rise up and not accept injustice....

I agree. There are a lot if grumblings at CAL to replace ALPA and go back independent after this contract. I can assure you I will be very happy to see that happen right now. I'm sick of seeing my dues go into the toilet and for National officer and admin. salaries.

It is a complete and total disgrace.

 

[flygirlqt]

http://1.usairlinepilots.org/ALPA_salaries.htm

Check out these salaries.

Absolutely, patently and completely disgusting.

 

[PCL_128]

Alpa meeting on Wed in Charlotte. There was an individual in the Alpa meeting room that was doing presentations on the advantages of being an Alpa member. One of the Capt (Name Deleted), asked this individual what his role was with Alpa. He replied, Staff Member. We asked, "What do you do as a Staff Member"? He replied, I recruit future members for Alpa. Ok, what do you get paid? $250,000 a year! What? $250,000 a year to recruit future Alpa member and you are a Staff Member? Are you a pilot? No. We'll, that's a lot of money to recruit future Alpa members. What do Alpa secretaries get paid? About $85,000 per year. Really! Our co-pilots do not make $85,000 per year! We'll, replied the Staff Member, we have a good Union. I guess so. We'll, we don't. That's why we are about to get rid of you! Have a nice day!

Complete lie. The senior ALPA staffer that does organizing initiatives (ie. "recruits new members") is a friend of mine, and someone I worked with quite a bit. He's been at ALPA for about 25 years, and still doesn't even make six figures, let alone $250k. ALPA secretaries also don't get paid anywhere close to the $85k that you quote. You guys need to get educated and stop blaming your problems on staffers and volunteers in Herndon.

 

[Jonny Sacko]

Every one of them need to take a 60% pay cut! F-Prater, the traitor.

 

[MCDU]

Complete lie. The senior ALPA staffer that does organizing initiatives (ie. "recruits new members") is a friend of mine, and someone I worked with quite a bit. He's been at ALPA for about 25 years, and still doesn't even make six figures, let alone $250k. ALPA secretaries also don't get paid anywhere close to the $85k that you quote. You guys need to get educated and stop blaming your problems on staffers and volunteers in Herndon.

What is his name, or is that a secret?

 

[flygirlqt]

Prater, the traitor.

I like it!

 

[MCDU]

I like it!

Darth Prater

 

[PCL_128]

What is his name, or is that a secret?

I'm not giving out names on a public message board, especially after just saying how much money they make. What does it matter? The fact of the matter is that the most senior staffer who's job is to recruit new members is making a third of what you claimed this guy was making. Only about a dozen people in the ALPA organization make the $250k that you quoted, and none of them are staffers that recruit new members. They are all attorneys or senior directors. You need to get your facts straight and stop worrying about the compensation of the people that are working their asses off to better this profession while you're playing golf and b--ching on internet message boards.

 

[MCDU]

better my profession. Is that a joke. The last 20 years have been a disaster.

 

[ualdriver]

http://1.usairlinepilots.org/ALPA_salaries.htm

Check out these salaries. This is were your dues are going while we lose retirement, vacation, salary, scope and now our seniority. Why would any US East pilot want them on their property.

Marty

Marty-

I saw your link that referred to the professionals that work for ALPA and their compensation packages. I guess I'm a little confused as to what you're upset about?

For example, we have senior attorneys working for ALPA in the DC area making in the high 200K's, and some higher. What is it that you are upset about? Are you upset that senior attornys in the DC area make in the high 200K's or that ALPA is paying them that much? Should we find the "attorney equivalent" of 250 hr. regional F/O's so we can pay them only 20K/year? Do you think that is wise? If you're upset that senior attorneys are paid that much money, should you be posting that on the attorneyinfo.com board instead of here as we can't control attorney salaries in the DC area?

If you're upset that ALPA is paying that much, what do you suggest ALPA do? Not pay the going rate for attorneys in whatever area we employ them in? Should we get mediocre or poorly qualified attorneys to work for us so that we can save a buck on salaries? For all of the legal work ALPA does in a given year, don't you think it's cheaper to hire staff attorneys than to pay by the hour?

If we're paying too much for whatever job qualification you refer to on that link, do you have a list of the salaries that all of these people "should" be making instead of what ALPA is paying them? Have you done that kind of research? If you have, please post the going rate for every job category in that link so that we can see how much we're overpaying? How much are USAPA attorneys going to be making?

Further, I can't wait to see how much you think the USAPA is going to be paying for the same services our ALPA staff provide? I imagine that since USAPA will start off small (if at all), they're going to have to hire people on a contract basis. Want to bet that's going to get a little "pricey" for you guys? I wonder what the hourly rate is for a well qualified labor attorney is in DC/PHL area? I think the USAPA is about to find out, and they're not going to like the answer.

And another point. You're posting a link with all these high salaries I assume for the "shock" factor. What would you think if the flight attendants and CSR's at US Airways who make FAR less than any of your pilots, posted a list of all the high 6 figure salaries of the pilots at US airways and used that as some sort of "rallying cry" to show how overpaid you are? Certainly the mid to high 6 figure salaries that would be on that list would be enormous to a flight attendant pulling in 20-30K per year. Do you think it would be right for the flight attendants to point to that list and imply that you're overpaid and that cuts in pilot salaries should be made to help the airline? If not, aren't you doing the same thing with that ALPA professional salary list?

But I do appreciate the list. I bookmarked it and will use it as a reference. Every ALPA member should be aware of information such as this.

 

[Flopgut]

Wow.... As the most junior CA in domicile and a commuter with family.. only 10 days off a month on reserve I did all the standard member particaption activities and started a committee. I was told I made the place just a little bit better.

Hold on pal! You said, and I paraphrase only slightly: "ALPA gets to do what they want on cabotage, because only 100 pilots showed up in Washington". There are a lot of pilots getting involved in committees, and interaction with the union is improving. (inc. yours truly. I'm on standby for 1 committee and applying to another) What I'm saying is: To insist personal appearance in large numbers is the single determinate as to what ALPA gets to do with policy is BS!! If you're on reserve or in the bottom of the list at CAL, being able to get to a meeting is a total crapshoot. That doesn't mean ALPA gets to ignore the membership and make stuff up.

I don't know what you're trying to accomplish, do you?? I've asked you before: what would be an adequate percentage of participation? Sure, as close to 100% as possible would be great, but not realistic. Do you have a goal in mind here, or are you attempting to set an expectation that no matter the turnout, the number is inadequate, and ALPA will do as they wish?? Who's side are you on??

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Complete and total BS! I am forced to fork over these dues because if I don't then I can be terminated. If ALPA actually had to rely on people voluntarily paying their dues based on a level of perceived value they get in return, the union would go broke in no time.

Who is forcing you to fork over dues? Is this coercsion? Blackmail? How did you get into this situation? Where you kidnapped?

The problem that no matter how lousy, back stabbing, politically correct, palm greasing good old boys club ALPA is, nothing will change. In the end, no matter what, they get their money. They have no reason to change.

And what about all those ALPA members that keep NOT electing them. Who are these pilots that don't vote and keep letting these back stabbers back in!

I agree. There are a lot if grumblings at CAL to replace ALPA and go back independent after this contract. I can assure you I will be very happy to see that happen right now. I'm sick of seeing my dues go into the toilet and for National officer and admin. salaries.

It is a complete and total disgrace.

Do you think you dues value will increase, remain or decrease if you go back to Indy CAL?

How many ALPA Nat'l Officer salaries does your dues mony pay? (not to put you on the spot... but do you know?)

How is your dues money going in the toilet? In what way?

Hold on pal! You said, and I paraphrase only slightly: "ALPA gets to do what they want on cabotage, because only 100 pilots showed up in Washington". There are a lot of pilots getting involved in committees, and interaction with the union is improving. (inc. yours truly. I'm on standby for 1 committee and applying to another) What I'm saying is: To insist personal appearance in large numbers is the single determinate as to what ALPA gets to do with policy is BS!! If you're on reserve or in the bottom of the list at CAL, being able to get to a meeting is a total crapshoot. That doesn't mean ALPA gets to ignore the membership and make stuff up.

Did Ghandi walk to the seasalts with five people? Did MLKjr speak in Wash DC with a few folks? You may snicker at my using Ghandi and MLKjr, however, it seems to be that ALPA members seem to want action that is of Ghandi/MLKjr caliber..... no?

I don't know what you're trying to accomplish, do you?? I've asked you before: what would be an adequate percentage of participation? Sure, as close to 100% as possible would be great, but not realistic. Do you have a goal in mind here, or are you attempting to set an expectation that no matter the turnout, the number is inadequate, and ALPA will do as they wish?? Who's side are you on??

Let's look at these numbers:

• LEC attendence 5%.
• LEC election 35%
• ALPA-PAC 16%
• Age 60 Survey 39%

I'd say an increase of

LEC attendance 5 to 20% is fair. Still a minority but lets take baby steps.

LEC election... a majority would be nice. How about 50%+1 as a start. Reasonable? (it takes 90 seconds to do internet polling.)

ALPA-PAC.... let's be real here... how about 30%. That is still 1/3... but a double increase...

Age 60 survey... well that ship has sailed... but I am sure another survey will come along... but what do you thing the particaption rate should have been for the age 60 survey?



It all comes down to unity, consensus, particaption and political action. Grassroots movements is what gets the attention of managment and gov't.

We can demand leadership action all day long, but for some reason when our leader(s) draws his/her sword, climbs out of the foxhole and yells charge, the membership doesn't seem too interested..... until that changes we will cavitate.

 

[Flopgut]

Age 60 survey... well that ship has sailed... but I am sure another survey will come along... but what do you thing the particaption rate should have been for the age 60 survey?

Well, I'm glad you brought that up. That "ship didn't sail", it sank! The age 60 survey numbers were satisfactory. Most importantly: The results were consistent. The sequence of events that led to the new rule should be investigated like an accident. We should learn from it and never let that sort of thing happen again. CAL's MEC chair is out today, and this is one of the many reasons why. He didn't give a crap about the membership, he was in it for himself and a small number of other CAL pilots. The actions taken by ALPA leadership regarding age 60 screwed unity and participation.

Here's the deal on showing up somewhere: At any given time, 50% of the membership is in the bottom half of the seniority list. The schedules these pilots work are horrible with no relief in sight. I know this is hard for you, but you're not going to have your "Ghandi" moment, OK? Let's make it easier for members to participate and let's allow thier efforts translate as they intend them to.

 

[Flopgut]

We can demand leadership action all day long, but for some reason when our leader(s) draws his/her sword, climbs out of the foxhole and yells charge, the membership doesn't seem too interested..... until that changes we will cavitate.

Membership doesn't seem interested?? I think the membership is too worried about getting that sword stuffed into their back!!

 

[Occam's Razor]

Pay the people who work for us well?

Screw that!

We demand fair treatment from our employers. Wages, benefits, and work rules that make us loyal employees.

But there's no way we should treat OUR employees that way!

Hypocrisy! It's what's for dinner!

 

[PCL_128]

The age 60 survey numbers were satisfactory.

Why is it satisfactory for far less than half of the members to participate in a simple survey that affects their entire careers?