BA 777 "lands short" at Heathrow

[Formula 1]

the Autothrottle demanded an increase in thrust from the two engines but the engines did not respond. Following further demands for increased thrust from the Autothrottle, and subsequently the flight crew moving the throttle levers, the engines similarly failed to respond.

Sounds like to me this was an over dependence on automation. If you use autothrottle all the time and they fail to work at on 600 AGL then why didn't the crew attempt to disconnect it?. Finally the crew pushed thrust levers up with no avail without disconnecting the autothrottle system. Yeah right. I'll be willing to wager that the engines were starting to spool up just before impact. As noted by the grass inside the engines picture. Are British Pilots system managers or are they pilots?

 

[Dumb Pilot]

Sounds like to me this was an over dependence on automation. If you use autothrottle all the time and they fail to work at on 600 AGL then why didn't the crew attempt to disconnect it?. Finally the crew pushed thrust levers up with no avail without disconnecting the autothrottle system. Yeah right.

The APU inlet door was open and that seems to indicate that they indeed had a loss of AC power.
The "automation" doesn't work with battery power only, the A/T droped off line when this happaned (A/P too) the A/T demanding more power was most likelly just prior of the GEN's going off line as the N2 started to drop

 

[ImbracableCrunk]

I dunno about the grass in the engine having much to do with the engines making power. You throw anything at the dirt that fast, it's gonna get messy. The engines might've been spooling down, causing the blades to break when the nacelle was deformed.

 

[Ticker]

Ok....I looked at the picture twice...

The first fan is half gone...

Does that damage look like the engine was going full bore when it hit the ground?

http://www.heathrowpictures.com/pictures/images/picturegallery_baw_b772_gymmm3.jpg
http://www.heathrowpictures.com/pictures/images/picturegallery_baw_b772_gymmm20.jpg

I wonder if that'll be covered by Power By The Hour........

 

[ultrarunner]

BBC is now interviewing a BA Captain, and he says this just doesn't happen to British pilots.

He's an airline pilot GIVING an interview immediately following a crash???


Well...there could very well be your problem right there!

 

[ultrarunner]

Musta been birds into the engines...this happened at USA Jet a few years ago.

Have you seen the size of a triple-7 engine? The bypass duct is the size of a couple of hallways in your high school.

Sure, birds could take out this motor, but they'd have to be the size of a VW.

Me thinky it was a thirst motor...not a hungry one.

 

[Kharma Police]

Maybe the Chinese gave them some bootleg Jet-A?

 

[poppi]

mong many theories as to the reason for a simultaneous failure of both engines after a long, uneventful flight, fuel contamination appears to come out top in the probabilities list. The theory pilots propose is that although fuel was plentiful, a heavier-than-fuel contaminant, such as water, represented a minute proportion of the fuel in the tanks on the approach, so problems did not arise. During the flight, the fuel was cold-soaked and any contaminant could have frozen to crystalline or solid form. Then, in the bumpy approach at lower levels, as the fuel warmed, the melting contaminant began to circulate in the relatively small amount of fuel remaining, forming a slush that could impede the fuel flow to the engines. This is only a pilot theory and there is no positive evidence for it from any official source.

 

[viper548]

Maybe the Chinese gave them some bootleg Jet-A?

Probably had lead in it. Everything else china makes does

 

[sqwkvfr]

He's an airline pilot GIVING an interview immediately following a crash???


Well...there could very well be your problem right there!

He didn't say anything of substance.

The only thing he did was praise his crew, particularly the FO who was PF.

 

[BVT94]

Someone at Boeing must know something or all T7's would have been grounded by now.

 

[the turtle]

I'm in groundschool on the triple right now and if there is a weak point, it's the main electrical switching bus...how that would come into play here, i don't know, they have fried before, usually on a power transfer..but it's possible.

seems too perfect to have that happen at a 2 mile final, though...

better to blame the Chinese

 

[SoberIrishman]

I'm not a 777 driver (I wish!), but I presume if you're on battery power only, there has to be a means of communication between the power levers and the ECU/FCU commanding fuel supply to the motors?

My bet is that the only way to kill these 777 engines is either to stop giving them fuel, give them bad fuel, or stuff them up with a herd of flying wildebeests!

Just like the NTSB, the AAIB will find the answer sure enough. Will be very interesting to find out. It sure would be bad if the crew ends up taking the hit, and I hope for their sakes this is not the case.

Best thing of course is that no serious injuries resulted from this incident, and what a testament to the strength of the Boeing product!

 

[Formula 1]

The APU inlet door was open and that seems to indicate that they indeed had a loss of AC power.
The "automation" doesn't work with battery power only, the A/T droped off line when this happaned (A/P too) the A/T demanding more power was most likelly just prior of the GEN's going off line as the N2 started to drop

If the power dropped off line and there was no power to operate the Autothrottle System, then how could they advance forward to command more power as the pilots described? Unless the engines still provided enough rotation to maintain residual power to every thing. If that was the case then why did and of passengers notice the emergency lighting come on before impact? The passengers interviewed claimed every was normal till impact. Some thought it was just a very hard landing.

Maybe one of the engine generators was MEL'd and they had to run the APU for the entire flight for the requirements of the MEL and thats why the APU door was opened.

 

[SoberIrishman]

Forgive my ignorance, but does manually advancing the power levers over-ride the AT's in any way, even temporarily? Seems like it should be designed that way just in case.