BA 777 "lands short" at Heathrow

[Amish RakeFight]

Now it seems the website owner removed all the BA pics.

"Due to photos being used by various sources without permission, a number of pictures have been removed from this site. "

 

[andyd]

Copied from the prelimary report:

Following an uneventful flight from Beijing, China, the aircraft was established on an ILS approach to Runway 27L at London Heathrow. Initially the approach progressed normally, with the Autopilot and Autothrottle engaged, until the aircraft was at a height of approximately 600 ft and 2 miles from touch down. The aircraft then descended rapidly and struck the ground, some 1,000 ft short of the paved runway surface, just inside the airfield boundary fence. The aircraft stopped on the very beginning of the paved surface of Runway 27L. During the short ground roll the right main landing gear separated from the wing and the left main landing gear was pushed up through the wing root. A significant amount of fuel leaked from the aircraft but there was no fire. An emergency evacuation via the slides was supervised by the cabin crew and all occupants left the aircraft, some receiving minor injuries.
The AAIB was notified of the accident within a few minutes and a team of Inspectors including engineers, pilots and a flight recorder specialist deployed to Heathrow. In accordance with the established international arrangements the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) of the USA, representing the State of Design and Manufacture of the aircraft, was informed of the event. The NTSB appointed an Accredited Representative to lead a team from the USA made up of investigators from the NTSB, the FAA and Boeing. A Boeing investigator already in the UK joined the investigation on the evening of the event, the remainder of the team arrived in the UK on Friday 18th January. Rolls-Royce, the engine manufacturer is also supporting the investigation, an investigator having joined the AAIB team.
Activity at the accident scene was coordinated with the Airport Fire and Rescue Service, the Police, the British Airports Authority and British Airways to ensure the recovery of all relevant evidence, to facilitate the removal of the aircraft and the reinstatement of airport operations.
The flight crew were interviewed on the evening of the event by an AAIB Operations Inspector and the Flight Data Recorder (FDR), Cockpit Voice Recorder (CVR) and Quick Access Recorder (QAR) were removed for replay. The CVR and FDR have been successfully downloaded at the AAIB laboratories at Farnborough and both records cover the critical final stages of the flight. The QAR was downloaded with the assistance of British Airways and the equipment manufacturer. All of the downloaded information is now the subject of detailed analysis.
Examination of the aircraft systems and engines is ongoing.
Initial indications from the interviews and Flight Recorder analyses show the flight and approach to have progressed normally until the aircraft was established on late finals for Runway 27L. At approximately 600 ft and 2 miles from touch down, the Autothrottle demanded an increase in thrust from the two engines but the engines did not respond. Following further demands for increased thrust from the Autothrottle, and subsequently the flight crew moving the throttle levers, the engines similarly failed to respond. The aircraft speed reduced and the aircraft descended onto the grass short of the paved runway surface.
The investigation is now focussed on more detailed analysis of the Flight Recorder information, collecting further recorded information from various system modules and examining the range of aircraft systems that could influence engine operation.

 

[Microclimates]

Since it was a 744, believe that from a regulatory standpoint, it simply becomes a three-engined aircraft, and it is perfectly legal to continue as long as considerations such as terrain, alternates, etc are satisfied. And if they were on the North Atlantic routes, then I don't think alternates are such a problem as being over the middle of the Pacific. Doesn't make it a smart decision, but not illegal.

box

I don't know all the details, but I remember the episode. I remember that the FAA was pretty p'd off, but BA's reply was something along the lines of "so what?" so part of it was a little political tiff.

as far as our regs go, I agree with the idea that the decision to continue was legal (not necessarily proper) at the time. THe main problem is that the flight ended as a fuel emergency. had they simply diverted without declaring they would've been totally in the clear
By declaring emergency though, you can make the case of reckless endangerment (91.13)... as far as I'm concerned, there's the rub, mate

 

[con-pilot]

A significant amount of fuel leaked from the aircraft but there was no fire.

At approximately 600 ft and 2 miles from touch down, the Autothrottle demanded an increase in thrust from the two engines but the engines did not respond. Following further demands for increased thrust from the Autothrottle, and subsequently the flight crew moving the throttle levers, the engines similarly failed to respond.

This is going to very interesting.

Thanks for the reprint andyd.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Sounds like a potential computer issue. If so, that is F***king scary.

 

[get2flyin]

Sounds like a potential computer issue. If so, that is F***king scary.

Computer issue? On a Boeing? I though the general consensus was that only Airbus' could have disastrous computer issues...

 

[Old School 737]

The crew was doing a press conference today. They say the engines failed to respond. A video of the wreckage shows the APU inlet door open. I think one poster mentioned he saw the RAT deployed.

 

[EWR_FO]

The crew was doing a press conference today. They say the engines failed to respond. A video of the wreckage shows the APU inlet door open. I think one poster mentioned he saw the RAT deployed.

The APU tries to start automatically when you lose power to both AC XFer busses (essentially a dual generator failure), which also deploys the RAT. Something was major league f'ed up with that airplane on short final.

 

[mbd]

An aircraft has a loss of power on all engines on short final. What is the most obvious cause? Are we really that scared to say it?

 

[FlyBarneyJets]

The preliminary says "a significant amount of fuel leaked from the aircraft..."

That doesn't necessarily lead to the conclusion you've obviously come to, mbd.

 

[nimtz]

The prelim report seems to indicate a lot of worthless speculation (and lame stereotypes) on this thread were predictably off base. I think of BA crews as colleagues in this crazy business. I would hope they wouldn't hurry to judge me in a negative light if I were ever in an accident. It's pretty disappointing to see a bunch of professionals talk this way. Let the investigators do their job before we try to make an argument that their 'culture' is unsafe because of one incident.

 

[Cardinal]

The crew was doing a press conference today. They say the engines failed to respond. A video of the wreckage shows the APU inlet door open. I think one poster mentioned he saw the RAT deployed.

As soon as you shell out both operating engines (by filling them with Heathrow mud, for example) you'll end up with unpowered AC busses. In my limited 777 understanding, this will result in an APU autostart and RAT deployment.

Engines could have been running until impact, and still display that evidence post-crash.

 

[GogglesPisano]

Sounds like their MacAfee anti-virus susbscription expired.:smash:

 

[DOVPILOT]

The preliminary says "a significant amount of fuel leaked from the aircraft..."

That doesn't necessarily lead to the conclusion you've obviously come to, mbd.

Significant = unusable

any T7 drivers care to tell how much that is?

 

[PCL_128]

The prelim report seems to indicate a lot of worthless speculation (and lame stereotypes) on this thread were predictably off base. I think of BA crews as colleagues in this crazy business. I would hope they wouldn't hurry to judge me in a negative light if I were ever in an accident. It's pretty disappointing to see a bunch of professionals talk this way. Let the investigators do their job before we try to make an argument that their 'culture' is unsafe because of one incident.

Exactly.

 

[Formula 1]

the Autothrottle demanded an increase in thrust from the two engines but the engines did not respond. Following further demands for increased thrust from the Autothrottle, and subsequently the flight crew moving the throttle levers, the engines similarly failed to respond.

Sounds like to me this was an over dependence on automation. If you use autothrottle all the time and they fail to work at on 600 AGL then why didn't the crew attempt to disconnect it?. Finally the crew pushed thrust levers up with no avail without disconnecting the autothrottle system. Yeah right. I'll be willing to wager that the engines were starting to spool up just before impact. As noted by the grass inside the engines picture. Are British Pilots system managers or are they pilots?

 

[Dumb Pilot]

Sounds like to me this was an over dependence on automation. If you use autothrottle all the time and they fail to work at on 600 AGL then why didn't the crew attempt to disconnect it?. Finally the crew pushed thrust levers up with no avail without disconnecting the autothrottle system. Yeah right.

The APU inlet door was open and that seems to indicate that they indeed had a loss of AC power.
The "automation" doesn't work with battery power only, the A/T droped off line when this happaned (A/P too) the A/T demanding more power was most likelly just prior of the GEN's going off line as the N2 started to drop

 

[ImbracableCrunk]

I dunno about the grass in the engine having much to do with the engines making power. You throw anything at the dirt that fast, it's gonna get messy. The engines might've been spooling down, causing the blades to break when the nacelle was deformed.

 

[Ticker]

Ok....I looked at the picture twice...

The first fan is half gone...

Does that damage look like the engine was going full bore when it hit the ground?

http://www.heathrowpictures.com/pictures/images/picturegallery_baw_b772_gymmm3.jpg
http://www.heathrowpictures.com/pictures/images/picturegallery_baw_b772_gymmm20.jpg

I wonder if that'll be covered by Power By The Hour........

 

[ultrarunner]

BBC is now interviewing a BA Captain, and he says this just doesn't happen to British pilots.

He's an airline pilot GIVING an interview immediately following a crash???


Well...there could very well be your problem right there!